Talk:Food Structure

Changes made Dec. 19. 2013: The suggestions to add more links were read and followed.
Two links have been added to show that "Food Microstructure" is still on the market. Google.scholar was checked for papers published in "Food Structure" but the links would not fit. The journal ceased to exist with the last issue at the end of 1993. Former (surviving) authors are being contacted for assistance with the links. As indicated, the Tables of Contents are available at 2 URL addresses (and requests for reprints are still being received). Additional search for links will be done after Christmas. Editor's help is appreciated. Thank you. 192.197.71.189 (talk) 17:28, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

Changes made Jan. 7, 2014: Links were added, existing links were clarified.
Since the changes mentioned above were not seen to be implemented, the action was repeated. Thank you. MKalab (talk) 19:31, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

Changes made Jan. 9, 2014: Link to Cs.wikipedia.org was added.
The link is not essential but has been added in hope that it may help to remove the "orphan" label from the entry. The article is in Czech, so I have provided a link to its translation in English - I have the following problems: (a) There are terms "Retrieved + date" (accessdate) at the end of several references, entered automatically, but their meaning is not clear to me. (b) The "orphan" label at the title of the entry concerns me. However, links to bookstores which carry old issues of the journal are not permitted although they indicate that there is still interest in it, 20 years after it had been discontinued. (c) My intention to show the cover of one of the last issues has not been successful, although the author of the image on the cover and copyright holder, Dr. M. Rosenberg (Univ. of California at Davis) has provided his approval to the copyright editors. Problems seem to be complicated for both of us, so I have abandoned my intention (with regret). - I wish to thank a Wikipedia editor, who advised me about a temporary mistake in my editing. Now I will try to locate his message to discuss my problems. Regrettably, I have access to this computer where I may edit Wikipedia, only from Monday to Thursday. Thus, I will be able to communicate again only on Jan. 13, 2014. Thank you. MKalab (talk) 20:46, 9 January 2014 (UTC)
 * You are misinterpreting the "orphan" tag. This tag indicates that no other WP articles link here. Further, I am baffled that you remove things without knowing what they are for, in cases like that it's better to ask first, no? Websites sometimes change, so it is eSsential when citing a web page as a source to indicate when exactly the page was accessed. Regarding a cover image, those can be uploaded at enWP (but not on Commons) under a "fair use" license. No separate permission of the copyright holder is needed. For instructions (and also for tips to improve this article), you should have a look at our writing guide for journal articles. A final problem of this article concerns "notabilithy" in the WP sense. This has nothing to do with good/bad/meritorious/whatever. For an explanation see WP:GNG and for journal articles in particular, see WP:NJournals. If notability cannot be established, the article may get deleted, so this is urgent and important. Hope this helps. --Randykitty (talk) 17:36, 10 January 2014 (UTC)

Response and questions to advice from Jan. 10, 2014
Thank you for your advice. Sorry that I have not asked you for assistance but I did not want to bother you while I tried to cope with a problem. Since the existence of the article is in jeopardy, I have abandoned any concern for the image of the journal cover. My concern is the writing guide. All my life I used to write and for 12 years to edit scientific papers so here I face a challenge. One of the Wikipedia criteria is: "Subjects of articles on academic journals are required to be notable; that is significant, interesting, or unusual enough to be worthy of notice, as evidenced by being the subject of significant coverage in independent reliable secondary sources." ---

Food Structure was the first journal on the use of electron microscopy in food science which existed from 1982 to 1993, i.e., before the Internet era. For the next 20 years no such journal existed until 1993, when Elsevier started a new journal under the same title but completely unrelated. To differentiate, I suggested the title "Food Structure Journal 1982-1993". ---

Notability concerning a journal terminated 20 years ago, I suppose, could be found in scholar.google.com in the form of digitized papers and references to papers published, e.g., http://agris.fao.org/agris-search/search.do?f=1987/US/US87088.xml;US8734840 Food Microstructure (Journal) FREQUENCY: Semiannual (2 numbers a year) START DATE: 1982 --- http://agris.fao.org/agris-search/search.do?f=1994/US/US94169.xml;US9403097 Food structure (Journal) FREQUENCY: Quarterly START DATE: 1990  ---  http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=4121542 Auteur(s) / Author(s): HEERTJE I. ; Revue / Journal Title: Food Structure ISSN 1046-705X; Source / Source: 1993, vol. 12, no3, pp. 343-364 (2 p.). --- http://www.scopus.com/record/display.url?eid=2-s2.0-0002282467&origin=inward&txGid=023A0D5E22BCDB084228BBCD35C2F72B.CnvicAmOODVwpVrjSeqQ%3a1 Food Structure Volume 12, Issue 1, Pages 95-114, 1993. --- There are many Food Microstructure and Food Structure bibliographies listed in "Microstructural Principles of Food Processing and Engineering" (2nd ed.) by J.M. Aguilera and D.W. Stanley (A Chapman & Hall Food Science Book, 1999) and in other books.

Another information unusual for a defunct journal is that it is still available in online bookstores and its Tables of Contents are also available online. ---

I have read entries on defunct journals, e.g., https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quarterly_Journal_of_Science (19th century), https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Journal_of_Natural_History (1834-1863), or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behavioral_Science_(journal). Do you suggest that I follow that format? ---

Finally, what is the meaning of "This article has been rated as Start-Class on the project's quality scale" printed at the page heading? ---

Your advice and assistance will be greatly appreciated. Thank you. MKalab (talk) 21:18, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

Changes made Jan. 15. 2014:
A major revision has reduced the size of the article by following the style used for defunct journals. In order to distinguish this 20th century Food Structure journal from the new journal started by Elsevier under the same title in 2013, inclusion of a subtitle 1982-1993 in the title of this article will be appreciated. Thank you. MKalab (talk) 20:18, 14 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Hi, the article looks quite nice now. I've tweaked it a bit. I still don't see how it meets either WP:GNG or WP:NJournals, though. Are there any sources that establish that it was indexed in, say, the Science Citation Index or MEDLINE? Or any other journals/publications that have written about the journal? As for the Elsevier journal, for the moment it is not notable (it barely exists), so there is no problem yet. If it becomes notable, we could give it the title "Food Structure (Elsevier)" and place a hatnote at the top of each page to guide readers to the other article. --Randykitty (talk) 15:51, 15 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Science Citation Index does not contain the journal but MEDLINE does. At this site: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/nlmcatalog under ISSN 0730-5419, the following information has been found: "Save search, Advanced Help Result Filters Display Settings: Full, Send to: --- Food microstructure Author(s):   Scanning Electron Microscopy Inc, Title(s):  Food microstructure. Continued By: Food structure (Chicago, Ill.) Publication Start Year: 1982 Publication End Year: 1989 Frequency:  Semiannual  Country of Publication: United States  Publisher:  Chicago, IL : Scanning Electron Microscopy, Inc., c1982-1989.  Description:  8 v. : ill. Language:  English Other Languages:  English(Summary) ISSN: 0730-5419 (Print) 0730-5419 (Linking) Coden: FMICDK MeSH: Food Analysis* Publication Type(s): Periodicals Notes: Title from cover. Other ID: (DNLM)F09950000(s) (OCoLC)08036508 NLM ID: 8300907 [Serial]."  I have thus included this information the article: "Indexed in MEDLINE." --- When I looked at some other defunct journals (but not for stubs) as examples, such as the Aeronautical Engineering Review, Boston Journal of Natural History, Comparative Technology Transfer and Society, and Quarterly Journal of Science), indexing is not mentioned; it is shown with the Somatic Cell and Molecular Genetics journal. --- Elsevier's Food Structure exists quite well (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/journal/aip/22133291) and will, naturally, obliterate the old Food Structure. I just want to be fair and I strive for a separate recognition for both journals. I am even friendly with some of the editors, former authors of papers published in Food Structure (1982-1993). I am checking with them whether they plan to write about the old journal. Thank you. MKalab (talk) 19:09, 15 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Actually, that index entry does not show that the journal was MEDLINE indexed. Compare this with, for example, the Journal of the American Medical Association (which changed its name to JAMA in 1960): that entry clearly states that the journal is not currently indexed (obviously), but was indexed before 1965 (and specifies OLDMEDLINE, MEDLINE, and PubMed). That is not mentioned for Food Structure, nor for Food Microstructure. --Randykitty (talk) 19:19, 17 January 2014 (UTC)


 * P.S.: I am pleased to provide the following information from the Editor-in-Chief of the Elsevier's Food Structure: "I thank you for your efforts to keep the 'Food Structure' fire alive. You will be happy to know that the first issue of the new Food Structure is mere few days from going live! In it, I have an editorial where I acknowledge you for the background information that you have provided. I have attached the editorial that will be published." Will that be helpful? Thanks. MKalab (talk) 20:43, 15 January 2014 (UTC)

Notes added Jan. 27, 2014
(1) The Editor-in-Chief of Food Structure intends to contribute to editing in several days. (2) MKalab will receive information about the defunct Food Structure from AAFC-AAC Library by the end of January. (3) “Infocus” Proceedings of the Royal Microscopical Society”, Issue 18, June 2010, contains information about the now defunct Food Structure on pages 4 and 9. The article is also available online at: http://www.rms.org.uk/Resources/Royal%20Microscopical%20Society/infocus/Images/TheBeautyOfMilk.pdf. (4) Additional search for “notability” is still in progress. Thank you. MKalab (talk) 15:56, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

Notes added Feb. 10. 2014
(1) A link has been added to a site referring to Food Structure and presenting information on the structure of dairy products based on papers published in the defunct journal. Work is in progress on papers published on fats and oils.

(2) A link has been added to the new Elsevier Food Structure journal. Regrettably, a reader has to pay to get access to the papers published, including the "Editorial", in which Editor-in-Chief, D. Rousseau refers to the old journal and declares that in the new Elsevier journal, the spirit and essence of Food Structure remain the same: to provide a dedicated international venue devoted to innovative food structure and functionality research. There are other references to the old journal:

''The history of food structure and functionality dates to the 1970s. At the time, it was becoming increasingly apparent that processed foods markedly differed from their original sources, be it in composition, sensory properties or physical form. Differences under the microscope increasingly helped explain differences in various food properties such as texture and rheology. Yet no journal or forum actively fostered this growing area of research. To fill this void, 1979 saw a group of four food microscopists from North America, Drs. Samuel Cohen, Eugenia Davis, David Holcomb and Miloš Kaláb organize annual conferences with the support of Scanning Microscopy International (SMI). Scientific presentations given at these meetings were published by Dr. Om Johari, Editor-in-Chief of the SMI journal. In 1982, a new SMI journal entitled Food Microstructure saw the light of day, with Dr. Kaláb as editor-in-chief. The journal was later renamed Food Structure at the suggestion of Dr. Isaac Heertje, the European editor. This change increased the journal's appeal and publication frequency. Unfortunately, 1994 saw an abrupt end of the journal. --- Many aspects of food structure studies have changed since the early days. Microstructural characterization has moved well beyond the realm of light and electron microscopy. --- Though great strides have been made since the 1970s, absence of a dedicated journal for close to twenty years has considerably diminished awareness of food structure research. --- In closing, I thank Drs. Paula Allan-Wojtas and Kaláb whose documents contained many of the historical elements mentioned above.''

Contemporary food scientists appreciate the article about Food Structure submitted to Wikipedia and believe that it is timely and useful. In their opinion, there is no question about notability. In their own research, they refer to papers published in Food Structure and that information is part of their references. Food Structure 1982-1993 is now "defunct" but not "dead". Thank you. MKalab (talk) 17:52, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

Changes made Feb. 27. 2014:
Reference 1 to Dairy products has been moved to the statements on the papers on this subject published (now Reference 5). New reference has been added to Fats, oils and their emulsions (Reference 6). I am pleased to see that Google links to this article in Wikipedia are increasing in number irrespective of the two notes below the title, so I enjoy editing this article. Thank you. MKalab (talk) 20:07, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

Changes made Aug. 24, 2015:
Dr. Om Johari, publisher of Food Structure (1982-1993) and copyright holder wished before he passed away on March 18, 2015, that everything he had published be available at no charge on the Internet. Dr. D. J. McMahon has digitized Food Microstructure and Food Structure making all papers now available in PDF format. In the profiles of researchers, ResearchGate, e.g., lists both the discontinued and the new Food Structure journals. The most recent editing of the article on Food Structure is supposed to reflect the development. As the author of the article, I invite suggestions from Wikipedia editors to consolidate my contribution to their satisfaction. I may be reached at Milos.Kalab@agr.gc.ca. Thank you. MKalab (talk) 15:23, 24 August 2015 (UTC)

Changes made Nov. 9, 2017:
To better reflect the fact that the journal is no more published but all contents are available at no charge to anybody, this information has been moved at the end of the first paragraph. For example, this link: http://digitalcommons.usu.edu/foodmicrostructure/vol6/iss2/9/ shows that this particular paper was downloaded 3,072 times since July 2, 2015. Other papers are also frequently downloaded by scientists. I am firmly convinced that this article in the Wikipedia is fully justified. However, I do not know and I am unable to check whether the ISO 4 data for it and its predecessor are available. As the former Editor-in-chief and the editor of the Wikipedia page, I only can confirm that the data for ISSN 1046-705X and CODEN FSTUE2 are correct. In fact, I am probably the last surviving member of the Editorial Board. If I could be of additional help, I may be contacted at scimat@magma.ca or Milos.Kalab@agr.gc.ca. (I check this site seldom, sorry).MKalab (talk) 19:39, 9 November 2017 (UTC)