Talk:Football at the 2012 Summer Olympics – Men's tournament

Attendances
Can somebody find a good source for the crowds at these games and add them to the article?216.52.207.101 (talk) 21:11, 26 July 2012 (UTC) :Found them at fifa.com. HandsomeFella (talk) 21:29, 26 July 2012 (UTC) Sorry, that was for the women's tournament. HandsomeFella (talk) 21:30, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

Interwikilinks
Hmm... No links or templates to "Football at the Summer Olympics" or even to "Football at the 2012 Summer Olympics". I think there should at least be the link to the latter one. Quite strange, you have to go through categories to get there. 85.217.44.72 (talk) 04:20, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

Merger proposal
See Talk:Football at the 2012 Summer Olympics – Women's tournament. – hysteria18 (talk) 16:00, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

Separate Group & Knock-out Pages
I was wondering if for the olympic tournments in both the mens and womens competitions like what has been done with events like the FIFA World Cup and UEFA Euro 2012 if we could have separate pages for each of the groups and also the knock-out stages to allow for extra details of team line ups and also team formations in each of the matches that are played. This would vastly, enrich the article I believe and provide an even better record of the events. I know some would say that this is only a sub standand tournments within the olympics but it is still a major international football tournments and I think they should be treated as much and I would like to hear your views on this. Thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by MOTORAL1987 (talk • contribs) 20:05, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

Proposed merger 2
Recently, the following pages were created by user MOTORAL1987:
 * Football at the 2012 Summer Olympics – Men's tournament – Group A,
 * Football at the 2012 Summer Olympics – Men's tournament – Group B,
 * Football at the 2012 Summer Olympics – Men's tournament – Group C,
 * Football at the 2012 Summer Olympics – Men's tournament – Group D,
 * Football at the 2012 Summer Olympics – Men's tournament – knockout stage,
 * Football at the 2012 Summer Olympics – Women's tournament – Group E,
 * Football at the 2012 Summer Olympics – Women's tournament – Group F,
 * Football at the 2012 Summer Olympics – Women's tournament – Group G, and
 * Football at the 2012 Summer Olympics – Women's tournament – knockout stage.

I think these pages are utterly pointless – I'm sorry, MOTORAL, no offence intended, and I hope you don't take it personally – but that's what I think.

There's nothing that says that we can't have verbose descriptions (I assume rather short ones) of matches in the main articles for the tournaments.

HandsomeFella (talk) 17:33, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

For other major football tournments there have been seprate pages like Euro 2012 and FIFA World Cups ect for each of the groups and for the knockout phase and I noticed it has been done on the 1988 Olympic football page. The idea for the seprate pages is so full team line ups, formations, subs yellow and red cards could be displayed. It has been done in the past so why not for the olympics. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MOTORAL1987 (talk • contribs) 20:49, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Oppose There is consensus for having seperate articles on each group so more detail can be added. See: UEFA Euro 2012 Group A, 2010 FIFA World Cup Group A, and Football at the 1988 Summer Olympics – Group A.  Del ♉ sion 23  (talk)  21:12, 2 July 2012 (UTC)
 * You mean that there is a consensus for those articles? I don't see much of a consensus here though, at least not yet. You're the first person to express a view here, if you don't count MOTORAL1987, who created the sub-articles, and me, who suggested the merger. HandsomeFella (talk) 22:23, 2 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Nothing similar exists for the 1992, 1996, 2000, 2004 and 2008 Olympic football tournaments. HandsomeFella (talk) 22:28, 2 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I too oppose the merger. It is standard procedure to have separate pages for each group at major international football tournaments, and regardless of U-23 format of the Men's side, the Olympic Games is considered a major international tournament. Just because editors have not had the time to go back to the pages for Olympic football tournaments which took place several years before Wikipedia came into existence does not mean that someday an editor will not take up the project--MorrisIV (talk) 19:04, 3 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Agree with merger A line needs to be drawn as to where we stop being so detailed regarding football competitions. As important as I think this competition is, it is still and under age event. Are we going to start creating separate pages for groups and knockout stages at under-17 and under-20 World Cups? I don't think so. A precedent needs to be set. --Spartan008 (talk) 17:02, 4 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Suggestion I propose that any decision should delayed until after the tournaments are completed. The Olympic Football Tournament is not just another under age competition. It is the oldest surviving international soccer competition and it deserves to be treated with respect DjlnDjln (talk) 14:48, 5 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Djln and Spartan008 both make great points that I had not considered. Spartan is correct that these pages could get out of hand, but Djln rightly notes that this is the oldest surviving competition, and I'll add that it was indisputably the most prestigious competition prior to Los Angeles's decision to not host football at the 1932 Olympics which in turn prompted FIFA to create their own competition. I propose this suggestion that we limit separate pages for each group to the FIFA World Cup, the Olympic Games, and (since they are the two more prestigious confederation tournaments) UEFA's European Championships, and CONMEBOL's Copa America for the men, and the FIFA World Cup, Olympic Games, and UEFA's European Championship for the women.--MorrisIV (talk) 15:23, 5 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Conditional Oppose Oppose the merger on the condition that the same level of information as seen in the Euro 2012 Group pages is replicated. If this level of detail is replicated (line-ups, formation graphics, etc) for all groups on one page as is being suggested, it would be far too cluttered. Furthermore, if this level of detail is added, it is a good reference point to come back to in future years. That said, if it is not the intention to add this level of detail than I would agree that separate pages are redundant. Ck786 (talk) 23:19, 5 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Conditional Oppose & *Suggestion I created the pages for the reason so line-ups, formation graphics, etc could be displayed on pages which didnt clutter up the main article. I understand that some people think the Olympic Games is not a worthy tournment for separate but it is by no means a under-age tournament. It is only a mainly under age tournament for the men so the event doesnt become a second unoffical FIFA World Cup and as for the Women there are no age restrictions at all so at the very least that event must be regarded as a major event. However if the level of detail does not reach the expected standands then I will be very happy for the separate pages to be deleted.--User:MOTORAL1987  —Preceding undated comment added 09:58, 9 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Oppose Merger, the format of the Euro 2012 groups works well, I don't see what the problem is..Tombo7791 (talk) 13:32, 11 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I strongly agree with the merger per “utterly pointless”. 71.146.10.213 (talk) 05:35, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Strong Support There is no need for such excessive detail, and the material can definitely fit within a single article for each of the tournaments. Reywas92 Talk 17:34, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Oppose As the bigges event its deserved such excessive detail --Bearas (talk) 08:24, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment: if these pages develop into a design like UEFA Euro 2012 Group A, then I guess they could stay, but if they remain duplicates, then ... I guess they'll have to go. Who's ready to take on the task? HandsomeFella (talk) 14:27, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Oppose - When the lineups are known they should be added like here. For "bigger" tournament it's usual to have those subpages. Kante4 (talk) 14:46, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Oppose - Group stage pages will contain full lineups for each game which would not be appropriate on the main page. --Kafuffle (talk) 17:10, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Support - these sub-articles seem entirely redundant to the main ones. There simply is no need to go into such detail as full team lists, yellow and red cards, etc. Yes, we do that for the World Cups and the Euros, but football at the Olympics is not on the same level of importance as those. Robofish (talk) 11:33, 26 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Oppose - Group stage and knockout stage pages are well-developed once matches begin play, as with virtually every "major tournament" page set, such as 2010 FIFA World Cup and 2012 UEFA Euro. --Kitch (Talk : Contrib) 15:19, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

This merger discussion has been going on for about one month and the tournament has started. I counted eight in favor of maintaining the group pages with five in favor of the merger. How much longer will this continue, or can the discussion end now.--MorrisIV (talk) 12:51, 26 July 2012 (UTC)


 * As the subpages seem to develop into a design similar to that of the UEFA Euro 2012 subpages, I'm now inclined to withdraw my proposal. HandsomeFella (talk) 13:07, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

Matches
For some reason the first match is labelled "Match 3", and the third match is labelled "Match 1". I don't know why but I can't edit this.Suarez777 (talk) 09:17, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

Also, the semi-finals has mexico's game against japan twice, pretty sure that's innacurate  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:647:5483:3080:55FB:9220:810E:E698 (talk) 01:14, 23 May 2023 (UTC)


 * Please don't edit them. If I remember correctly, match 3 was rescheduled so it starts earlier than was intended originally. But the numbering remains unchanged.
 * HandsomeFella (talk) 15:22, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

Match reports
About the match reports, I believe we only need one, and that's from the London 2012 official website. We have never used two before in the previous tournaments, such as the Euro 2012 and 2008 Olympics articles. Regarding the FIFA match reports, they should be used as references for the attendance, which User:Kante4 have added previously on the women's tournaments pages, but then was removed. Arbero (talk) 11:55, 27 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I added the fifa.com match report as a reference for the attendance . I think a reference is better than having two reports. Those refs will be seen also on every article those template is included. Kante4 (talk) 12:06, 27 July 2012 (UTC)


 * If you could have one (official) match report supporting all info in the footballbox template, that would obviously be ideal, but the problem is that london2012.com doesn't mention attendance. I could do without the fifa.com source, but then there's always someone who says "Hey, we've got no source on the attendance". Could someone please make a phone call to the Olympics guys and ask them to put the attendance info in? ;-)
 * Or we could just switch to the fifa.com source only, if it has all the info.
 * Btw, that IP user making disruptive reverts is now blocked, at least for a while.
 * HandsomeFella (talk) 13:52, 27 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Well, I could settle for fifa.com as a source for the attendance specifically, but I think a "References" sedtion in the template is called for in that case. HandsomeFella (talk) 13:56, 27 July 2012 (UTC)


 * I don't feel that this is my best area of expertise, at least regarding wikipedia, but I believe that there should be a way in which both the London2012.com and FIFA.com websites can be used. They don't have to both be the Match Report link, but both are highly valuable.--MorrisIV (talk) 14:09, 27 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Ok, we seem to be able to reach an agreement.
 * Can I summarize this as we go with the version indicated by Kante4 above, i.e. london2012.com is the official match report, and fifa.com is a complementary source on the attendance figure, but we add the "References" section to the noinclude part of the template, it's perfectly ok there, check the roster templates.
 * HandsomeFella (talk) 14:30, 27 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I like that.--MorrisIV (talk) 17:14, 27 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Yep, like that too. ;) Kante4 (talk) 20:56, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

Sorry for the late response, but brilliant then, looks like we have resolved this quite nicely then. I agree with HandsomeFella's point. Arbero (talk) 00:57, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

Knockout stage draw
Sorry to trouble you, but I have noticed a discrepancy between the quarter final draw here and on the Sky Sports website. On this page, the first quarter final at Old Trafford is between the winner of group D and the runner up of group C, whereas Sky Sports have this match as being between the winner of group A and the runner up of group B. Can anyone confirm which of these two is correct? Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Asnow87 (talk • contribs) 21:59, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

Lede
"It is the first major FIFA affiliated men's tournament to be held within the United Kingdom since the 1966 FIFA World Cup" - what about Euro 96? -- Arwel Parry (talk) 17:45, 11 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I think the sentence should say "it is the first major FIFA-organised men's tournament", since Euro 96 was organised by UEFA. – PeeJay 23:21, 11 August 2012 (UTC)

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