Talk:For the Fallen

Early discussion
The article states that the original poem used "contemn". The article For the Fallen however states that it does not, and that it was a typographical error. Communisthamster 20:53, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

At least the article gets this correct:

"They shall grow not old"

It is good to that it does not make the common error of     "They shall not grow old". ACEOREVIVED (talk) 20:44, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

I have a feeling that the "Ode of Remembrance" is not only used in the Commonwealth of Nations, but also in the United States. Here's the reason why: earlier this morning, I was watching C-SPAN's live coverage of the Pentagon memorial and the combined forces of the United States Army Chorus, the Navy Sea Chanters, the Air Force Singing Sergeants and the Marine Chorus sang the "Ode of Remembrance". Some Americans might heard of it as Britons, Canadians and Australians did. Pretty interesting, isn't it? Don-Don (talk) 13:50, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Copyright
How is that the text is reporduced here? Surely it is still under copyright? ROxBo (talk) 07:40, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Works published before 1923 are not in copyright anywhere in the world. This poem is not in copyright. 71.173.81.247 (talk) 22:42, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

Merge 'Act of Remembrance' page
I feel that this page ought to be merged with Act of Remembrance, keeping the 'Ode of Remembrance' title, due to the extent to which their content is shared. What does everyone else think? EdwardRussell (talk) 14:10, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

Layout
The introduction section to this page is very long. Can anyone see a way of splitting some of it off into its own section? EdwardRussell (talk) 14:11, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

Versions for Commonwealth countries
I am sure 'England' in the final line is not used in other Commonwealth countries. What are the local variants? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.157.173.163 (talk) 16:49, 19 January 2014 (UTC)

In Canada we seem to only use the second stanza.


 * The second stanza listed here is actually the fourth stanza of the complete poem - and yes, it is the one "usually recited" pretty much everywhere, although occasionally they recite one or two of the other stanzas as well (usually the third and/or the fifth - i.e. the ones included here). --Soundofmusicals (talk) 11:50, 25 April 2015 (UTC)

"We WILL remember them"
"At the going down of the sun and in the morning, We will remember them". I have noticed when this passage is read at Rememberance Day, most people in recent years place emphasis on "will". Thus turning it into an command, as if it were "we SHALL remember them" This is I think not what Binyon intended; he is saying that thoughts of them will haunt us automatically at those times. When written (1914), the phrase "lest we forget" would make little sense amid massive losses, and a general sentiment more like "How will the world ever be able to forget?"122.57.152.168 (talk) 11:30, 26 April 2014 (UTC)

'For the fallen' - Class 91 locomotive
Would it be relevant to note that UK Class 91 express passenger electric locomotive 9 11 11 (note the significance of the number) has been decorated in World War 1 illustrations as part of the centenary commemorations, and has been named 'For the Fallen'? It will be kept in it's memorial livery and the name (other locos undergo name changes after a while) and has been shortlisted for preservation at the National Railway Museum when it is retired in a few year's time - so there will be a lasting connection to the Ode. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Andywebby (talk • contribs) 18:45, 5 June 2015 (UTC) Andywebby (talk) 22:12, 6 June 2015 (UTC)

"We will remember them"
I may well be missing the point, but shouldn't this article make clear that it is generally just the 4th stanza which is used in remembrance "events"?

Debate about history and wording is interesting, but seems to ignore the aspect most would be familiar with. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.132.225.55 (talk) 19:00, 27 April 2018 (UTC)


 * The 4th stanza and its special connections are far from "ignored" (but see next topic) --Soundofmusicals (talk) 21:36, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

Requested move 22 February 2019

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: moved as requested per the discussion below. Dekimasu よ! 17:41, 1 March 2019 (UTC)

Ode of Remembrance → For the Fallen – The article is about the whole poem, not just the (more famous) fourth stanza. I do feel that Ode of Remembrance should redirect to For the Fallen, but the scope of this page is wider than simply the ode. See WP:PRECISE: titles should unambiguously define the topical scope of the article, but should be no more precise than that. For instance, Saint Teresa of Calcutta is too precise, as Mother Teresa is precise enough to indicate exactly the same topic. In this case, 'Ode of Remembrance' is too precise and 'For the Fallen' is precise enough to indicate the whole topic. Eddie891 Talk Work 16:43, 22 February 2019 (UTC)


 * Support per nom. The article mostly talks about the poem as a whole and the title should reflect that. PC78 (talk) 18:34, 22 February 2019 (UTC)


 * Support. Provided, as has been suggested, that "Ode of remembrance" continues to go to this page, and the lede is rewritten as necessary. --Soundofmusicals (talk) 22:03, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
 * , of course! You are welcome to hold me to that if I forget. Happy editing! Eddie891 Talk Work 23:31, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Support per WP:COMMONNAME. Usually referred to as "For the Fallen" even if only the fourth stanza is being used. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:21, 27 February 2019 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Addition to "Other uses in popular culture" section?
Haven't had much luck with Wikipedia edits, so offering here in case someone thinks it worth adding.

Roald Dahl's extraordinary collection "Over to You: Ten Stories of Flyers and Flying" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Over_to_You:_Ten_Stories_of_Flyers_and_Flying) has a moving story called "They Shall Not Grow Old." Cteno (talk) 16:22, 2 March 2019 (UTC)

Original words
The poem is out of copyright - which means we can reproduce it in full - but it would be misleading and rude, if not actually illegal, to reproduce words other than Binyon's originals, no matter how often they creep into recitations. --Soundofmusicals (talk) 22:15, 29 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Even if it were not policy is to reproduce literal quotes "literally".--Soundofmusicals (talk) 22:17, 29 September 2019 (UTC)