Talk:Ford Escape Hybrid

Merge Discussion
I've un-merged this article from Ford Escape. The articles were merged only three days after the merger was first proposed, and with no discussion. I've left the merger boilerplate up top so this discussion can actually happen. raekwon 23:37, 17 October 2005 (UTC)


 * I do not think they should be merged at this point. The technology differences are great, and the audience for each article is quite different.  My vote is leave them separate.  --SFoskett 14:46, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

Absolutely, I agree. They appeal to totally different groups. They have completely different drivetrains. The regular Escape has just one engine, one battery and one radiator. The hybrid has one engine with two motors and two batteries and two radiators. The options and trim levels are different for the hybrid. The real costs of the two vehicles are different. The majority of the Ford Escape/Mercury Mariner Hybrid manuals are completely different from the regular Escape manuals. There is no difference in the manuals or training for working on the XLS/XLT/Limited models. IF it should be merged with anything it should be its twin the Mercury Mariner Hybrid. 162.58.82.244 05:46, 5 January 2006 (UTC)jmerrow
 * Mercury Mariner Hybrid already redirects here. raekwon 20:53, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

IMHO, this vehicle is a hybrid first, an Escape second. I can't see the logic of merging the two articles, and based on the above comments, there seems to be consensus after three months. I'm going to remove the merge notice; the record in this talk page should be sufficient if somebody else wants to persue the idea. -- RoySmith (talk) 02:16, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

Picture
I would suggest that if just one image is used to depict the Second Generation Ford Escape, it should be of the front view of the vehicle, rather than the rear, because the front of the new model is more distinguishing from the older one, than that of the rear.

Gas Tank
This article, under the "Performance" section, claims that this vehicle "has demonstrated it can travel 400–500 miles on a single tank of gasoline in city driving". However, no mention of the size of the gas tank is given. Is it a 10-gallon tank? 15? 20? 30? Shoot, my car could get 400-500 miles in city driving if I had a large enough gas tank. Without the gas tank size, this is really relatively unhelpful. -- ClintFord 15:25, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
 * fixed -- RoySmith (talk) 15:49, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Efficiency comparisons
It seems to me efficiency comparisons should also compare it to hybrid non SUVs (like the Prius) and non-hybrid efficient non SUVs. While SUVs may be a different class of vechile, IMHO it's a valid and relevant comparison since many people who use them do not actually require the performance or offroad capabilities. Anyone with the time and knowledge should do this for this article and the other hybrid SUV articles Nil Einne 07:52, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

Inaccurate mention of city mileage
The article states a common misconception, that hybrids get better mileage in the city. This is false. They do achieve high EPA city mileage scores, but in real-world driving they are always most efficient on the highway. CGameProgrammer 06:18, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

My mileage on my 4WD FEH is about 31 City/28 Highway for a lifetime average of 30.5 mpg. That is based on 18000 miles worth of tracking my mileage.

The concept of "real world driving" is in itself a vast oversimplification. You cannot categorically say that it is FALSE that hybrids get better mileage in the city. Highway driving leaves less room for error, so it is easier to get consistent mileage on a long trip, that is true. Just set the cruise control, for example, and you're good to go for consistent mileage. City driving opens up a lot of possibilities for driver errors like jackrabbit starts or not anticipating stops. It is a heck of a lot less consistent, but that does not mean that highway speeds are always the best. I drive a Toyota Prius. Generally, around truly brutal stop-and-go traffic, i don't hit 60+ MPG. Even if you could run on battery power all the time in stop and go traffic, eventually the battery will drain, and you'll have to fall back to burning gas... but there are a LOT of scenarios where i do get 60 or 70 MPG, and they are almost always NOT the 55 to 65 MPH highway speed scenario. The best kinds of roads for me are surface streets with very few stops, and a speed limit between 35 and 45 MPH. I have had half an hour segments at well over 80 MPG. LaughingMan11 08:16, 5 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree, there is no definition of "real world driving." Mileage can be given for certain conditions, and EPA ratings specify their conditions, so it's accurate to report EPA mileage ratings. (That said, mileage should be attributed and sourced in the article). Alternate mileage could also be reported, given another reliable source, but the real world is very subjective. Another example: I drive a Prius, and in cold winters, I get about 5 mpg less for short trips before it warms up. -Agyle 19:36, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Update needed
The article discusses 2006 as if it's the future, so some updating is needed. Beyond the simple tense changes, someone will need to verify the sales counts vs estimates for 2006, and the status of the Tribute hybrid also mentioned. --Vossanova o&lt; 20:55, 14 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I really like the info box which claims the 2nd generation production years are "2008–present". -- RoySmith (talk) 21:52, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Terminology
This comment about the hybrid escape being a "full" hybrid is not strictly correct. I would still consider the hybrid escape to be a full hybrid but it does not meet the definition given. Specifically, there is no "gas power only" mode for this kind of hybrid. This is because the generator is required to react against the torque produced by the internal combustion engine in order to provide torque to the driveline. This is the case with all "power split" hybrid transmissions that lack any kind of generator brake/clutch.


 * I think the difference being drawn is that the battery pack is not in use in the scenario given, unless I am misunderstanding your distinction. Specifically, I have read that the FEH can drive entirely without the battery, in other words in a "gas power only" mode (though I've never tried this, I prefer the other extreme).  The fact that there are internal conversions to electricity, or internal combustion for that matter, are just technical issues, so I would argue that the comment and definition are correct as written.  Also, as far as I was able to find, all the new 2007s have been sold from dealer lots in North America after a series of incentives from Ford to clear the lots for the 2008 model (introduced early 2007) and so it's probably safe to remove the "-present" for the first generation, unless there is some objection. 66.192.95.83 14:21, 29 June 2007 (UTC) tdcrone

Stats missing
It's a glaring omission not to have the stock battery kWh and peak kW burst output. Also the Electric motor HP/Kw alongside the gas engine stats. Many hybrid pages are missing these stats but what the hey I'll complain here. (71.233.165.69 00:42, 8 June 2007 (UTC))


 * If you can find sourced data, add it. I added amp hour capacity for the 2005 battery. Peak battery output and HP/kW I haven't seen. There's a 70 kW motor rating given by HEV America. I consider the omission of these details more trivial than glaring, but that's rather subjective. -Agyle 19:52, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Total Number of FEH's Sold
Per the IRS publication, "Purchasers of Ford Hybrids Still Qualify for Tax Credit" (IR-2007–140, Aug, 6, 2007) at http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=172857,00.html, the total number of Ford qualifying hybrids reported to date is 33,547 (current as quarter ending June 30, 2007). This total is less than the total sales of FEH's for 2005 and 2006, let alone the 2007 data I added (from same source I just noted), but I am assUming this discrepancy is because not all FEH's sold qualify for the sales credit -- perhaps due to leasing (if it's available for leasing, I do not know) and/or fleet vehicle usage, etc. Just a note that I'm aware the data I just added seems to create a conundrum, so someone else can come along and either help flesh that out or correct it if I've somehow improperly interpreted the IRS publication. - Ageekgal 04:50, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Performance
Under the Performance heading, a lot of items have been listed as "citation needed." I understand the need for as many citations as possible, but anyone who actually drives an Escape Hybrid can verify most of that information. My Escape Hybrid does accelerate up to 39 miles per hour (the gas engine always kicks in at 40 mph). I can activate the electrical only mode by tapping my foot on the brake. According to the Ford owner's manual, it can go at least one mile in electrical mode if there is no gas in the tank. However, I'm not positive about the 1.5-1.8 mile range. Ford's owner's manual does also state that the performance does degrade under 50 degrees Farenheit and that the mileage won't be as good in cold weather.Cwc2311 (talk) 20:18, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

I have referenced the 2009 Owner's Manual, which does discuss these points, and removed the citation requests. kcmurphy88

Removed a link...
That gave a 404 error 72.93.241.143 22:31, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Removed a "See Also"
Removed a link to Hybrid Synergy Drive. This article is not about hybrid cars. It is about a hybrid car. It is not about Toyota or Lexus, either. That is their technology, this is Ford's. If they want to see Toyota/Lexus's hybrid technology, they visit the Toyota/Lexus page, not the Ford page. It's not like there should be a link to every other unrelated company's hybrid technology. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Redsox7897 (talk • contribs) 00:25, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

2009 Changes
The 2009 model has a new 2.5L powerplant, I just cant see how to make that fit in the article because everything talks about the Escape Hybrid as just one generation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.212.208.175 (talk) 19:10, 2 February 2008 (UTC)


 * You could just add a new section to the article under a heading like "2009 Changes"Cwc2311 (talk) 23:16, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Duplicative Plug In Sections
The best I can tell, the current version of the page has two independent sections about the plug in version. I don't know enough to do anything about it. Receptacle (talk) 01:34, 17 December 2008 (UTC)