Talk:Foreign policy of the Hugo Chávez administration

Foreign policy section and article need updating
Foreign policy of Hugo Chávez has to be updated. Important elements missing: Venezuela looking for a seat in the UN Security Council and recent trips (Africa summit and Belarus-Russia-Qatar-Iran tour). Also we need to rewrite the summary in the main article JRSP 08:44, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Undue Weight
I think this article lacks balance, not as much in the sense of POV but in the relative importance of each country in Venezuela's foreign relations. Some examples: Peru has a big subsection while Colombia is practically neglected, Iran and Libya have more or less the same coverage when relations with Libya are basically OPEC bussiness while ties with Teheran are closer, for instance, Petropars and other Iranian companies have investments in Venezuela. JRSP 14:41, 5 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, I suppose that when consensual editing resumes here, other editors may help you fix that. I'm sure you can imagine that folks aren't interested in working on articles when you delete everything written.  Sandy 14:59, 5 August 2006 (UTC)


 * I think some structural changes are needed in the article. I agree with a section for the USA but perhaps we should modify the layout of the 2nd seccion. A geographical division would be OK, apart from the USA section there should be one for LatAm (with a subsection devoted to Colombia), Europe and one Asia-Africa JRSP 15:05, 5 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Disagree. Perhaps you don't keep up with international news?  Chavez is clearly on an anti-US bent, forging controversial alliances, and you can deny it all you want, but that's what is in the news all day every day, and the article should address that fact.  Undue weight?  The current *weight* is what is in the news 24/7 about Chavez.  Sandy 16:47, 5 August 2006 (UTC)


 * "International" news? Iran has newspapers too, just to give an example. JRSP 16:52, 5 August 2006 (UTC)


 * And? You're suggesting they are not reporting the same things, with a different spin?  Point is, the Chavez articles need to deal with what is in the news, not obfuscate and ignore it.  Undue weight is given in the Chavez articles:   to ignoring the current headlines.  Sandy 17:05, 5 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, for me undue weight includes among other things that Colombia, one of the most important countries in Venezuela's external politics looks less important than Libya JRSP 17:10, 5 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, I would say that none of the Chavez material is in proportion right now, but all the unnecessary reverts and deletions discouraged any further writing. It all needs to be beefed up and updated, but I can't imagine why you expect other editors to do any writing until you agree to work within consensus and refrain from overarching misinterpretations of WP:BLP.  If you want to own the articles to the extent you have, you'll have to do the writing yourself.  I have no interest whatsoever in engaging in edit wars, revert wars, and doing a lot of work which you will just delete.  Sandy 17:17, 5 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, before writing deleting or whatever, I would propose giving a new structure to this article. JRSP 17:31, 5 August 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree: the Table of Contents is a wreck (Katrina is not important enough for its own heading, for example). Would you like to propose a new structure here?  I don't think it should be by geographic area, rather by foreign relations focus, e.g.; solidification of ties with arab-opec countries, anti-"imperialism" or anti-US or ties with communism or however you would label that thing he's doing, Latin-American integration, etc. Sandy 23:51, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
 * A broad geographic division would be a good place to start. I agree the OPEC countries deserve special attention. However a US-centric structure would not be good for the article. The relative weight of each country must reflect how important are these countries to Venezuela, not to the USA JRSP 00:02, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Since a *major* part of Chavez's policy is anti-"imperialism" and anti-US, it is silly to think you could write about his foreign policy while ignoring the elephant in the room. It is not US-Centric:  it is the way Chavez has defined his own policies.   Sandy 00:05, 12 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Not anti-US as Venezuela has provided humanitarian aid to US people. US relations are important for the article but the relative weight of each country must reflect Venezuela's priorities not USA's.JRSP 01:36, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Chavez's own statements and policies are anti-US. DO you want me to give you five sources, ten, twenty, thirty? How many do you want? It IS his policy, and it has weight. Sandy 01:45, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
 * US is a country, not a government. Chavez opposes imperialist policies of the US government but has actually helped US people. Countries are people, not governments JRSP 01:59, 12 August 2006 (UTC)


 * So much of this article are merely criticism stubs, in Uruguay-Venezuela relations, there is nothing really worth mentioning, and it is a similar case for other sections. If the subject of the article is "Corruption allegations" then perhaps this would be fitting, but I fail to see how this constitutes foreign policy in Uruguay

US/Pedro Carmona Government inconsitency
"Foreign policy of Hugo Chávez" claims that the US government did not recognise Pedro Carmonas government, while "United States-Venezuela relations" claims that it did.


 * And, typically, neither statement is referenced, in either article. I'll see what I can find.  Sandy 01:07, 15 September 2006 (UTC)


 * The Venezuelan coup attempt of 2002 states the U.S. "acknowledged the de facto Carmona government." After reading the source, a State Department press release, April 12, that phrasing seems more accurate. We recognized that Chavez wasn't president, but never explicitly said Carmona was. MorrisGregorian 11:08, 17 September 2006 (UTC)


 * That press release does not appear to include recognition of the Carmona gov't, and I've never seen a reliable source which indicates that the US recognized the gov't.  They supported the resignation of Chavez.  Sandy 14:32, 17 September 2006 (UTC)


 * True, the press release acknowledges that there was a new government, but is that de facto recognition? I think so, but if I understand your point, since it doesn't explicitly give recognition we shouldn't say the U.S. did.  How about changing the sentence to something like "the United States acknowledged that a 'transition civilian government' was in charge of Venezuela." MorrisGregorian 18:53, 17 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure. There was one source that specifically covered this, but I can't for the life of me find it again.  Maybe it would be safer just to say that the US govt didn't reject the transition government or something about what they didn't do, rather than what they did do?  Sandy 19:08, 17 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I could have sworn I've read something that covered this too, but I also can't remember. I'll check to see if I can find something, though this might take a couple days.  If I can't, your idea sounds good. MorrisGregorian 03:37, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

I haven't had much luck. I checked with a couple of Congressional Research Service reports, assuming that something written by the U.S. government would make it clear, but they don't say either way. The best I could come up was this paragraph from "Latin America and the Caribbean: Legislative Issues in 2001-2002, (December 6, 2002)": In the aftermath of Chavez's brief ouster in April 2002, the United States expressed solidarity with the Venezuelan people, commended the Venezuelan military for refusing to fire on peaceful demonstrators, and maintained that undemocratic actions committed or encouraged by the Chavez administration provoked the political crisis. In contrast to the United States, many Latin American nations condemned the overthrow of Chavez, labeling it a coup. However, the United States did support an OAS resolution that condemned the "alteration of constitutional order in Venezuela." I can't find a link to the report online, so I understand if it isn't considered verifiable. As for what to say about recognition, I think that saying what the U.S. didn't do would work, and mentioning how the U.S. differed from other Latin American countries. How about "The United States, unlike many Latin American countries, did not initially condemn the overthrow of Chavez or label it as a coup"? MorrisGregorian 01:26, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
 * In that case, it would be better to use some of the sources referring to the OAS meeting and countries, since most (but not all) of them acted in unison, and the USA was slower. Sandy 01:40, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Called Bush "pendejo"
The supposed sources of this claim say nothing about this. Shouldn't this be removed until someone finds a source for this? (72.181.194.88 02:32, 7 December 2006 (UTC))


 * That is not a "claim", it is a fact. Millions have heard him saying that in TV and radio. --AVM (talk) 20:44, 25 November 2008 (UTC)


 * While that may be well and true, it still needs to be sourced.

Colombia
How come one of the most important countries in HC's foreign policy is completely neglected while we have long sections about Lybia and Israel? JRSP 20:32, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

I was wondering the exact same thing, Colombia isn't simply a minor neighbour of Venezuela, it's one of his main commercial allies and major political obstacles. Mr Chavez almost went to war with this country during the Andean Crisis, and the relationship with Uribe has been "difficult" to say the least. Colombia is one of tyhe last standing pro american countries in South America. I will try to add as much information as I can, but I don't have time to add the respective sources. They are easily available on the web, though. Specially on the web pages on both Colombian and Venezuelan newspapers, like El Tiempo or El Universal. --XMaster4000 (talk) 07:37, 20 November 2008 (UTC)XMaster4000

Colombia has been one of the biggest political rivals of the current Venezuelan government Please source. There are more statements of similar nature that violate WP:V. Further, INTERPOL findings about information related to Chavez contained in Raul Reyes' laptops merits mention.--Alekboyd (talk) 16:08, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

Iuugo Chavez illegal support of FARC should be on the pageSolarsheen (talk) 23:27, 23 September 2009 (UTC) agree H I agee Columbia should have more of a focus and Chavez's suport of FARC needs to be mentioned, see NYT article http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/05/world/americas/05venez.html?scp=1&sq=FARC%20laptops&st=cseTannim1 (talk) 14:58, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

Move to Foreign policy of Hugo Chávez administration
Proposed move to be in line with other similar articles, example Foreign policy of the George W. Bush administration. --Jonte-- 19:41, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Chavez04 fidel9.jpg
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BetacommandBot (talk) 19:58, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Fair use images
This article uses several images that were uploaded with "fair use" tags. A quality control volunteer nominated them for deletion. Personally I think their nomination was weak, because they seemed unwilling or unable to take the time to address the good-faith explanation the uploaders placed on the images. But, there is another problem. My understanding is that the wikipeedia's rules for fair use don't allow an article to bear more than one fair-use article. Geo Swan (talk) 03:14, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

russia
no mentions of russia in here? its been growing soldily in the last weeks

and his support for rafael and evo. Lihaas (talk) 12:57, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Got some boost with military ties andpurchases from russia. Also this edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Foreign_policy_of_Hugo_Ch%C3%A1vez&diff=245341225&oldid=243141373) is probably a foundation for Russo ties. Lihaas (talk) 00:44, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

Personal opinions in the "Response to assassination calls" subsection
In said subsection, an editor wrote this closing remark: "The more astute Haggard was concerned about the effects Roberson's remarks would have on US corporate and evangelical missionaries' interests in Venezuela."

Questions: How did he/she find that Haggard is "more astute"? How does he/she know Haggard "was concerned" about that? That's either pure POV or just speculation. This is an Encyclopedia, remember! --AVM (talk) 20:52, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

"Evidence" of support to FARC
A recent edit has added that [... a raid by the Colombians on FARC bases inside the Ecuadorian border] produced evidence of support of FARC by Hugo Chavez. This information is sourced on an opinion article by Diego Arria, a well-known figure of Venezuelan oposition. An opinion article cannot be used to source an statement of fact; if the opinion is considered relevant, per WP:BLP it should be attributed to Arria. JRSP (talk) 13:43, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

I don't know if you are refering to my recent added information from the NYT which is from the NYT and is not written by Diego Arria.Tannim1 (talk) 15:56, 19 September 2009 (UTC)


 * No, I was referring to this one, by another user --JRSP (talk) 16:14, 19 September 2009 (UTC)


 * The new reference provided does not say that the raid "produced evidence" but that "Colombia’s government also said this week that it had obtained information on the computer showing that Mr. Chávez was channeling $300 million to the FARC. The information is the basis for its plan to file charges against Mr. Chávez in the International Criminal Court, Mr. Uribe said Tuesday in Bogotá.", so it would still need attribution, this is something that the Colombian government said, not a proven fact ( BTW after 18 months they have not filed any charges). Also, the present prose ("...led to military moves by Venezuela in conjunction with Ecuador after a raid by the Colombians on FARC bases inside the Ecuadorian border produced evidence of support of FARC by Hugo Chavez.") is not consistent with the timeline of events: The diplomatic rift and the movement of troops happened on March 3, before the Colombian government accusations against Chávez(March 4). JRSP (talk) 18:16, 19 September 2009 (UTC)
 * The Guardian article, it says "Hugo Chávez faces serious allegations...", "Leaks from the trove of files and photographs have suggested..." and in fact it says that "Interpol certified that Colombia did not tamper with the files but made no judgment about their reliability or accuracy" and that "Analysts have cautioned that the Farc's internal memos may contain misinformation or wishful thinking.". This reference does not support that there is "evidence of support of FARC by Hugo Chavez" JRSP (talk) 18:28, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

Colombia POV tag
the tag was on for nearly 2 years with no discussion on going. I have thus edited adn removed the tag (although the grammar was pretty awful and in need of a copy edit too)Lihaas (talk) 10:22, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

Spain
The article lacks the relations towards one of the most important partners, Spain. Bakulan (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 21:21, 7 January 2011 (UTC).

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