Talk:Foreign relations of Bhutan

Merge proposal
I propose merging Diplomatic missions of Bhutan into this article for the following reasons: --Россавиа Диалог 02:18, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
 * The information contained in the diplomatic missions article is contained in this article, except more detailed and fully referenced.
 * The merge will not cause undue length concerns in this article, even as it is developed.
 * The diplomatic network of Bhutan is extremely small and anything that could be said on the diplomatic missions article would be in direct relation to the foreign relations of Bhutan, and is better off being all in one article
 * The diplomatic missions article doesn't have any growth or development potential which warrants a stand alone stub list


 * Hi Russavia,
 * I noticed you have decided to place diplomatic missions details into Foreign relations of Bhutan, and then immediately sought to merge the article with Diplomatic missions of Bhutan. In effect you are seeking to delete  Diplomatic missions of Bhutan - I recommend it go to AfD if you think it merits deletion.
 * But now you have placed it to the vote, let me cast my view:
 * Strongly Oppose
 * The article is part of an existing category of articles on the diplomatic networks of various countries, to which you, myself and many others have provided contributions.
 * To achieve this aim, we present information in a consistent format, with appropriate context and background provided. It is best presented in a list form, not as prose, and in their own categories, not as an appendum to something else.
 * More details can be provided about Bhutan missions. I do not consider that this article has no growth potential.
 * If your idea is to merge missions and foreign relations details together, do you propose to do it for countries with five missions? why not fifty?  or two hundred?
 * I also suggest deletion of mission details in Foreign Relations of Bhutan.


 * As a side note to Russavia - you can use your skills on Wikipedia far more productively (we disagree on many issues, but I will not fault your research or writing skills). Add more information to all those Russian embassy articles you created and get them out of stub status.  Create new articles about embassies of other countries.  Create new details of ambassadorials.  Essentially please do not start new categories with only a marginal amount of contribution and then expect other writers to accept whatever new taxonomies or styles you invent.  Kransky (talk) 11:07, 7 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Oppose. Regardless of how a Russian might feel about tiny Bhutan we treat all nations and countries equally on Wikipedia. For that matter we have articles on diplomatic missions of every country and picking out Bhutan out of all to erase it is simply wrong and I think disrespectful. If we delete the article on Bhutan missions then all other articles should be erased too and I hope this is not your intention as a huge amount of efforts was invested into those articles by various editors for them to be simply removed.--Avala (talk) 14:54, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Kuzu zangpo Avala/Kransky. Firstly, I am Australian (just so you know). I have the utmost respect for Bhutan and the Bhutanese people (as yet, I haven't been able to avail myself of an invitation by several of the locals to visit Bhutan...locals are handy to know if you want to get around the US$200 per day regulations set down by the authorities), and merging the article is not a sign of disrespect. In fact, the reason I am editing articles relating to WikiProject Bhutan (of which I am a member and will work towards reactivating the project), is that I have so much respect for the Bhutanese, and want to impart some of my knowledge on their country, the institutions, the culture, the people, so am also editing Bhutanese articles. Drukair is just one example of what I feel is a fine article (still in progress mind you). It is not my intention to merge Diplomatic missions of France into Foreign relations of France as the diplomatic network of France is notable, and to merge back into the F.R. article would cause undue weight issues. As a nation which has chosen to official relations with a select number of countries, and with a total of 4 embassies and 2 permanent missions, it is actually somewhat disrespectful to have a stub list with nothing written. There is nothing on the diplomatic network of Bhutan which would take Diplomatic missions of Bhutan past a short list as it exists right now, with perhaps 3 or 4 lines of text at most. If the Diplomatic missions of Foo lists are supposed to describe the diplomatic network of a given country, then I can say without a shred of bias that the table that I have introduced into this article describes the diplomatic network better than the short list possibly could, plus it allows for further development in relation to the Foreign relations of Bhutan. WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS is not so much relevant in this case, as each case needs to be looked at by its own merits alone. I find it disheartening that every time I come up with a suggestion in regards to these Diplomatic mission articles that those suggestions are instantly shot down in flames, with some lecture on how best to spend my time on WP (in such as developing articles) (like I am not either writing articles myself or laying the groundwork for others to do...remember WP is a collaborative effort), and suggestions for improvement are thought of attacks on others work (hence why I say there are extreme ownership issues in regards to said articles). So if Diplomatic missions of Bhutan is not merged into this article, just what can we expect to see on that list/article in six months time? It would be best served, as it can't grow any further, being placed into this article (with a category left on the redirect, as per List of diplomatic missions in Bhutan). It is from the apparent consensus (which I still have not seen by the way) that Diplomatic missions of Foo article do not cover honorary consulates, however, in the interests of keeping a standard (which I will be pushing to change in the future, just a heads up) the details of such honorary consulates can't be mentioned in Diplomatic missions of Bhutan, even though they are instrumental in raising awareness of the country and in securing development aid for Bhutanese projects. Again, that is best served in this article, as it is directly related to the foreign relations of the country. --Россавиа Диалог 16:58, 7 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't think it matters what country or the size of the country it is and whether the nominator was Russian (how is this relevant??). The main "criteria" for a seperate article is information. If only a small list will ever be created and there is little further than will added to the article then there is no point in having a speerate article and any small list here can be redirected. If however this is more to write and there are numerous WP:RS available then it can be expanded. As it stands a redirect would seem appropriate  ♦ Dr. Blofeld ♦       "Talk"? 19:12, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you Bloefeld of SPECTRE for your views. Please note that Diplomatic missions of Bhutan is part of a larger list of diplomatic missions by sending country articles, which share a common style.  There are also articles on (or which are yet to be created) on diplomatic missions in Bhutan, Bhutan ambassadors and the diplomatic missions themselves.  Kransky (talk) 06:42, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately, User:Russavia/DipMis is what Diplomatic missions of Russia should look like, but you yourself Kransky insist that these article should be basic lists with minimal information. Are you now of the opinion that diplomatic mission articles should include ambassadors? Or are you making the Bhutan article an exception? Additional, List of diplomatic missions in Bhutan now redirects here, due it containing basically no information apart from a list of (erroneously) 3 countries which have missions in Bhutan. That list can be seen here --Россавиа Диалог 14:14, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Some further comment by myself here...what I am proposing in the merger is not a deletion of the Diplomatic missions of Bhutan article, but merely a merger into this article with relevant content. For example, the map on the mission page which is pretty basic, could be expanded to show those countries which have diplomatic relations with Bhutan, countries which host a Bhutanese missions and countries which have a mission in Bhutan, all in the one map. The photo of the UN mission can also easily be incorporated. And instead of simply recreating a redirect to this article, a redirect with categorisation can exist, such as that for List of mission in Bhutan. Additionally, please note what this article looked like before I introduced a sortable, formatted list. It looks a lot cleaner, and manages to include more information in a smaller space than missions in and of articles, and if it existed (as it does for a lot of other countries), date of establishment of diplomatic relations.


 * Strongly Oppose I find it very disrespectful to merge the two articles simply because Bhutan does not have a big diplomatic presence abroad. The articles should remain as they are. Aquintero (talk) 16:25, 8 August, 2008 (UTC)
 * How exactly is it disrespectful? And disrespectful to whom? And if there is any reason based upon policies or guidelines, I would be more interested in hearing them. --Россавиа Диалог 14:14, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Strong Oppose per Avala and Kranksy Ijanderson977 (talk) 13:11, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Bhutan–United States relations‎
Bhutan–United States relations‎ has been redirected to this article for a couple of reasons: Thinking more about it, there is not even a need in this article to mention the US specifically, otherwise we may as mention all 170+ countries with which Bhutan does not have diplomatic relations with. In the absolute absence of any relations between the two countries, Bhutan–United States relations‎ has been set up as a redirect here, instead of taking it to AfD. --Россавиа Диалог 17:38, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Bhutan and the United States do not have diplomatic relations, and whilst diplomatic relations are not necessary for an article, relations between the two countries are absolutely minimal and there is nothing notable that could be written.
 * Most of the article was a directory listing of staff at the us embassy in New Delhi - WP:NOT comes into play.
 * The fact that the US embassy in New Delhi handles consular affairs for US citizens who may be in Bhutan is more suited to Wikitravel, and is not encyclopaedic in terms of Bhutan–United States relations‎.

Discussion at WP:FOR on formatting and content of "List of diplomatic missions" article
There is now a discussion at WP:FOR on the formatting and content of "List of diplomatic missions" articles. As this discussion ostensibly could affect this article, editors are encouraged to provide their opinions on the WP:FOR at this link - Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_International_relations - please do not discuss on this article talk page as valid points for consideration may very well not be seen by editors at large. Thank you, --Russavia Dialogue Stalk me 22:44, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Query
Does anyone know why Bhutan has chosen not to establish formal diplomatic relations with any of the UN's "big five" (France, UK, US, China, Russia)? Aridd (talk) 12:07, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

Cuba
Cuba and Bhutan established diplomatic relations - Canadian Bobby (talk) 18:38, 29 September 2011 (UTC)

Czech Republic
Relations to be established - Canadian Bobby (talk) 20:05, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

Why only 38 countries?
Why does Bhutan have diplomatic relations with so few of the world's countries? If anyone knows, I'd like to see that reason in the article. ekedolphin (talk) 13:56, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Check out the CIA World Factbook entry on Bhutan. In 1949 a formal Indo-Bhutanese accord defined India's responsibilities in defense and foreign relations, amongst other things, basically India is in charge of Bhutan's foreign affairs. —  - dain   omite    01:14, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

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