Talk:Formula One drivers from India/GA1

GA Review
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Reviewer: MrLinkinPark333 (talk · contribs) 01:42, 16 November 2019 (UTC)

Hello! Thought I review this one as it's relativity short plus you've been waiting awhile as well. If you have any comments/concerns feel free to ping me here. --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 01:42, 16 November 2019 (UTC)

Karthikeyan

 * "India's first Formula One driver was Narain Karthikeyan." - true. But I'd suggest pointing to the 2005 season (it's currently pointing to 2012)
 * ✅ SSSB (talk) 16:00, 18 November 2019 (UTC)✅
 * "He ended the season with 5 points having come 4th out of six starters after all but 3 teams withdrew at the controversial United States Grand Prix." - this is a bit wordy. I suggest rewording and breaking it up into two sentences for grammar.
 * There seems to be a bit too much detail about what happened at the United States Grand Prix. I don't think having how many starters and teams completed/withdrew from the race is needed. Any details should be left at the race's main article.
 * Also, while Motorsport does say the race was "controversial", I believe mentioning this isn't neutral.
 * Combining the above three, i've rephrased to He ended the season with 5 points having come 4th at the United States Grand Prix. SSSB (talk) 16:00, 18 November 2019 (UTC)✅ all three.
 * "Although Karthikeyan was dropped after Jordan was sold to Midland...promoted to third driver after Mark Webber left the team" - very long sentence that should be split into two sentences.
 * ✅ SSSB (talk) 16:00, 18 November 2019 (UTC)✅
 * "Although" is a word to watch per WP:EDITORIALIZING that needs rephrasing.
 * Removed Although SSSB (talk) 16:00, 18 November 2019 (UTC)✅
 * "and was promoted to third driver after Mark Webber left the team." - also true, but this promotion happened at the 2007 season. So the year should be mentioned to prevent confusion that his fourth driver and third driver positions happened the same year.
 * ✅ SSSB (talk) 16:00, 18 November 2019 (UTC)✅
 * "Karthikeyan was then offered a drive for the 2011 season, driving for HRT but was replaced after 7 rounds by Daniel Ricciardo, although he had a one-off drive at the 2011 Indian Grand Prix, replacing Vitantonio Liuzzi" - two sentences please. ✅✅
 * "a drive for the 2011 season" - do you mean seat or spot?
 * In this case they are one and the same, I mean that he was offered a position to race for the team. I've reworded to offered a race seat SSSB (talk) 16:00, 18 November 2019 (UTC)✅
 * Per a previous sentence, "although" is ediotrializing that needs replacing.
 * ✅: moved to a new sentenace a rephrased slightly. SSSB (talk) 16:00, 18 November 2019 (UTC)✅
 * Also, the HRT source should point to the 2011 season, it's currently pointing to 2012.✅
 * ✅ SSSB (talk) 16:00, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
 * "this time partnering Pedro de la Rosa" -> partnering with Pedro de la Rosa
 * ✅ SSSB (talk) 16:00, 18 November 2019 (UTC)✅
 * "However, Kartikeyan struggled against his teammate...lost his race seat after HRT folded at the end of the year" - This sentence seems choppy with the amount of commas. I suggest breaking it into two sentences for a better flow.
 * Him losing his race seat is now a seperate sentence. SSSB (talk) 16:00, 18 November 2019 (UTC)✅
 * "However" is an editorializing word that needs to be reworded.
 * Removed SSSB (talk) 16:00, 18 November 2019 (UTC)✅
 * The Stats F1 french site doesn't say HRT folded in 2011 nor Kartikeyan lost his seat that season. Another source is needed.
 * ✅ SSSB (talk) 16:00, 18 November 2019 (UTC)✅

Additional points
--MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 20:26, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
 * I think there should be a comma before "having" in "He ended the season with 5 points having come 4th" - I might be wrong.
 * ✅ I think it's one of those instances where it works both with and without, the wonders of English! SSSB (talk) 11:32, 20 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Yeah. Grammar can be a pain lol! ✅ --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 19:52, 20 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Because of the edits for the United States Grand Prix, the motorsport.com source is no longer needed as it's not supporting any point.✅
 * Removed SSSB (talk) 11:32, 20 November 2019 (UTC)
 * I also just realized that the sources don't say he was "offered" a seat with HRT in 2011. I suggest either using a source that says it was an offer or rewording it.
 * Reworded to Karthikeyan took a race seat with HRT for the 2011 season. SSSB (talk) 11:32, 20 November 2019 (UTC)✅
 * Sidenote: I'll have to determine whether crash.net is reliable.

Chandhok

 * "India's second Formula One driver was Karun Chandhok" - Yes, but this needs to be pointed to the 2010 season. Like Karthikeyan, it's pointing to 2012 as a default link.
 * ✅ SSSB (talk) 16:00, 18 November 2019 (UTC)✅
 * "10 of the 19 rounds before being replaced by Sakon Yamamoto" - also needs to point to the 2010 season.✅
 * Also, this one I'm not sure with "replacement". Yammaoto raced with Chandhok in race #10, so Yammaoto didn't really replace Chandhok in race #11. Unless you're referring to the car numbers?
 * Yammaoto drove the car which had previously been driven by Chandhok. SSSB (talk) 16:00, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Yeah I had the feeling that's what you meant. How about a bit of clarification to state that Yammaoto took his seat? Only cause Yammaoto raced with Chandhok previously, otherwise I wouldn't bother. --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 20:44, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
 * reworded to participate in 10 of the 19 rounds before Sakon Yamamoto took his car SSSB (talk) 11:32, 20 November 2019 (UTC)✅
 * I don't see Stats F1 french site saying Chandhok left at the end of 2011. Another source is needed for this part.
 * I've got a source which says he wasn't in f1 in 2012 which is one and the same thing. SSSB (talk) 16:00, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Good work with resolving this one.✅

Additional points

 * Chandhok was signed by HRT for the 2010 season but would only participate in 10 of the 19 rounds before being replaced by Sakon Yamamoto." - wordy that I recommend breaking into two parts (only spotted it now)✅
 * Also "but" is editorializing that needs tweaking --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 20:39, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
 * reworded to signed by HRT for the 2010 season. He would only participate in 10 of the 19
 * "only" sounds a bit like editorialzing even though it's not on the words to watch. I'd recommend dropping it, then the wording would be fine. --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 19:54, 20 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Removed. SSSB (talk) 11:17, 22 November 2019 (UTC)✅

Lead / Infobox

 * "As of 2019, there have been two Formula One race drivers from India" - this sentence is tagged as potentially dated. You could reword it to avoid this.
 * Maybe I'm having a brain block but I'm not sure how I would do that without violating MOS:DATED. The statement of how many Indian drivers have competed in F1 will change with time. There is nothing wrong (that I'm aware of) with having a dated statement and unfortantly it's a consequense of an article about a nations participation in an ongoing sport. Obviously the number of drivers is fundamental to the article's content. If you have an idea on how to override this I will be interested to hear this but I don't see a way. SSSB (talk) 11:32, 20 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Hmm. I thought this should be changed in order to prevent it from being dated but MOS:REALTIME allows it per words to watch. I guess you can leave it. ✅ --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 20:18, 20 November 2019 (UTC)
 * "Indian Formula One drivers have managed to collect 5 points...intent to take part in the race." - run on sentence that's needs to be split into two for grammar.✅
 * "collect 5 points between them but no race wins" - "but" is editorializing.✅
 * ✅ both of the above. SSSB (talk) 11:32, 20 November 2019 (UTC)
 * I don't think F1-Fansite is reliable as it's a fansite. I recommend replacing this source only.
 * This ones trickier, my go to would be StatsF1, but inconviently they only count races started on their main page for nations. I have removed the source and am refering to the individual entries of the drivers with verifiablity coming from counting the unique number of entries. I think that would be allowed per What SYNTH is not but I suppose that decision lies with you. SSSB (talk) 11:32, 20 November 2019 (UTC)
 * I think this should be fine per WP:CALC as well. There were 59 entries (57 starts and 2 races that Karthikeyan failed to qualify in). Showing India's and each driver's profile works for me. --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 20:11, 20 November 2019 (UTC) ✅
 * Are third driver entries not counted for the infobox stats?
 * No, I did this because the infoboxes for the individual drivers don't include them. The exclusion of third driver entries in driver infoxes are done by long standing convention. If you want I can raise it at WT:F1? SSSB (talk) 11:32, 20 November 2019 (UTC)
 * I wasn't aware if they should be included or not. If this is the standard, then it's fine. --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 20:11, 20 November 2019 (UTC) ✅
 * The lead seems a bit short per MOS:LEADLENGTH. Perhaps include a bit about each Indian F1 to boost the lead.
 * Don't have time now, will come back to it tomorrow or tonight. SSSB (talk) 11:32, 20 November 2019 (UTC)
 * No worries. You've done a lot! --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 20:11, 20 November 2019 (UTC)
 * ✅ SSSB (talk) 11:17, 22 November 2019 (UTC)✅

Additional points

 * "No Indian driver has taken a race win, podium, fastest lap or pole position...to take part in the race." - this sounds wordy to me as well. --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 20:11, 20 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Split into 3 sentenaces. 1 to state how may Grands Prix have had an Indian entry, the second th state their 5 points and the third to mention they havne't got podiums, wins, fastest laps or poles. SSSB (talk) 11:17, 22 November 2019 (UTC)✅
 * "Indian Formula One drivers have managed to collect 5 points between them" - sounds a bit not neutrally with "have managed". A slight tweak needed.
 * Removed. SSSB (talk) 11:17, 22 November 2019 (UTC)✅
 * "Across these Grands Prix Indian Formula One drivers" - comma in between Prixs and Indian is needed.
 * ✅ SSSB (talk) 21:57, 24 November 2019 (UTC)✅
 * accumalated -> accumulated
 * ✅ SSSB (talk) 21:57, 24 November 2019 (UTC)✅
 * "at that years United States Grand Prix." - apostrophe for year's.
 * ✅ SSSB (talk) 21:57, 24 November 2019 (UTC)✅
 * "He would go on to race for HRT in 2011 and 2012 with whom his Formula One career would end." - sounds a bit grammatically off with "and 2012 with whom his Formula One career would end". I also suggest avoiding starting two sentences with He for flow. --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 19:51, 22 November 2019 (UTC)
 * reworded to 2012 after which his Formula One career ended, second sentance now starts with drivers name. SSSB (talk) 21:57, 24 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Could I suggest a slight rephrasing with "in 2011 and 2012 after which his Formula One career ended."? I know you mean 2012 was when Karthikeyan's F1 career ended, but the ""in 2011 and 2012 after which" is a bit jumbly in flow. --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 22:25, 24 November 2019 (UTC)
 * , I replced after which with before, alternatively we could remove before his Formula One career ended as it would heavily implied that Karthikeyan's career ended after 2012 SSSB (talk) 13:52, 25 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Yeah or maybe specifying his career ended after the 2012 season would be better. It sounds incomplete currently. --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 17:51, 25 November 2019 (UTC)
 * , reworded to Karthikeyan would go on to race for HRT for two years from 2011, his Formula One career ended when HRT folded at the end of 2012., does this work better? SSSB (talk) 11:33, 26 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Sound good. Though I think the comma should be a semi-comma. However, I don't think this would be enough to prevent it from passing. --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 15:15, 26 November 2019 (UTC)
 * ✅ SSSB (talk) 15:38, 26 November 2019 (UTC)

Overall
Overall, the main issue with this article is the multiple grammatical fixes that are needed alongside the editorializing words that need to be replaced. There are also 2 sentences that are not backed up the citations - Kartikeyan losing his seat in 2011 after HRT folded and Chandhok leaving at the end of 2011. In terms of sources, all of the sources are good except for F1-Fansite as it's a fanstie. For minor issues, there is an instance of non-neturality and overally detailed that both appear in the United States Grand Prix sentence. Otherwise, this article has a reflist, is broad, stable, has free and relevant images. I'm willing to put this on hold for a week then reassess from there. --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 03:26, 16 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Alrighty. So far, most of the first glance review is complete except for Chandhok's 2010 season. I've also added a few more points after reading these sentences again. Good work so far! --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 20:45, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
 * firstly thank you for the review. I've done everything (I think) apart from expand the lead, I'll get to that tonight or tomorrow as I'm moderatly busy at the moment. There are a couple of things I need your opinion on regarding the replacement of F1-fansite and dated statements so if you could take a look at those that would be great. Thanks again for a great review! SSSB (talk) 11:32, 20 November 2019 (UTC)
 * You're welcome It helps that this is a relatively short article. I've left comments for the lead with 2 additional points and one additional point for Chandhok. You're almost there! --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 20:20, 20 November 2019 (UTC)
 * I think thats everything. Feel free to ping me if I missed anything. SSSB (talk) 11:17, 22 November 2019 (UTC)
 * All looks good apart from some spelling/grammar in the lead. --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 19:54, 22 November 2019 (UTC)
 * , fixed the ones you pointed out. SSSB (talk) 21:58, 24 November 2019 (UTC)
 * I think you're all set! Well done. --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 15:22, 26 November 2019 (UTC)
 * , Awesome! Thanks again! SSSB (talk) 15:40, 26 November 2019 (UTC)