Talk:Fort Lauderdale, Florida/Archive 3

Picture
This article needs a better skyline photograph. Can anyone in the Ft. Lauderdale area snap a better shot of the skyline? Skillz187 01:45, 12 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm working on it, but it's hard. There's no good spot to do it from.  ReignMan 15:13, 17 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Can you take a picture at the beach at Las Olas Boulevard facing west, with the skyline in the background? I imagine an early morning photo would be best, to avoid crowds. Horologium t-c 15:52, 17 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Cary Bass took a nice picture that is used in the Florida page: :::[[Image:Fort_Lauderdale_Skyline.jpeg|left|400px]]
 * Do you want to substitute this for the current pic? If you want a picture that doesn't show damage from Wilma, the notes on the photo state that it was taken from the seventh floor of the parking garage at Broward General Hospital, which is publicly accessible, although there may be a parking fee (not sure about that). Horologium t-c 13:41, 18 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I got one today, we'll see how it turns out, look for it.ReignMan 20:28, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

I am all for a better photo of Fort Lauderdale, but I have yet to see a photo that even competes with the one that was there for the past few months. Just a few things that make it better than any I've seen... It flatters the skyline by making it look as large as possible. The skyline sits on palm trees and sail boat masts("tropical", the way people from almost anywhere would be jealous of). The photo is higher res and level. The photo has the intracoastal in the foreground(what Fort Lauderdale is famous for). Oh yeah, it is not a photo of an asphalt highway. --Miamiomar 00:43, 24 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Ack, my picture, I went out of the way to get, and you just delete it? It was a real picture, not some tourist crap.  We can crop it if need be, but the one there is... too... fake.  I'll try again to get another one.  It's just so hard to get a decent skyline pic.ReignMan 13:56, 24 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Of the three, my personal favorite is the one by Cory Bass, but if you crop the bottom of your photo to remove I-95, it would be decent too. The original photo (the one that is currently in the infobox) was taken on a hazy day, and the clutter of the piers down at the bottom is not terribly attractive. It would be better if the picture was cropped at the roofline of the warehouse on the left side. I'm not going to fight over the image, though; all three are acceptable. Horologium t-c 14:09, 24 July 2007 (UTC)


 * It is a bit hazy, I'll give you that. The thing about the photo is that it is not fake. That IS Fort Lauderdale. I don't know why anyone would want to make it look more ordinary. A good photo captures what makes the city desirable and different from any place else(Tropics, boats). Even the best photo of the downtown skyline doesn't do the city justice, because that is only a small percentage of the highrises in the city. The fun of the city is the tropical vibe and boating life. Why not show it with a good angle of the skyline? --Miamiomar 23:56, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Sister Cities issue
I discovered an issue with the list of Sister Cities. Several times in the past two months, someone had attempted to add Venice, Italy as a sister city, and I had reverted it each time, citing the Sister Cities International listing, which does not have Venice listed. However, User:Legionarius pointed out this link to the Greater Fort Lauderdale Sister Cities International website on the List of sister cities in Florida. A copy of a Sun-Sentinel article in the GFLSCI news archive, dated 13 June 2007, notes that Venice and Fort Lauderdale finally agreed to establish a formal link. The GFLSCI site also has a listing of the city's 15 sister cities, which does not include São Sebastião. I contacted them, and they told me that the city does not have a relationship with São Sebastião; they will be attempting to find out why SSI has them listed as such. Horologium t-c 14:17, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

(Follow up) São Sebastião may be a "friendship city" (rather than a full-fledged sister city); I'll know more in a week or two. Fort Lauderdale is hosting the SCI international conference on 18-21 July, so they are understandably a bit busy right now, but they are going to look into it when the conference is over. Horologium t-c 16:14, 13 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I am deeply regretting my decision to make the List of sister cities in Florida, since this sister city stuff is a huge mess. Miami has Salvador, Bahia in their site, and nothing on the official site, plus tons of mistakes that I fixed in the list. I should have this done by Monday--Legionarius 15:19, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I do not think this is the case. Coral Springs has 4 friendship cities, and only Paraiso shows up.--Legionarius 16:56, 13 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I just fixed the Miami sister cities entry again today (three other city names had crept in since the last time I fixed it), using the city's list. Whatever cities are listed as sister cities, we need to cite a source. I think that, in general, if a city lists its sister cities on its official web site, that should be regarded as the most reliable source. -- Donald Albury 23:59, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Ok, now I have Fort Lauderdale fully cited. Looks like the official sisters international site is very slow to add cities. And the relationships fade and people do not bother cancelling them. Not all FTL relationships are active right now, and for them to be in this page, maybe is better to keep only the active ones and link to the florida list.--Legionarius 02:09, 15 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Maybe we need to include "as of [date]" disclaimers with the lists. :-) -- Donald Albury 13:30, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
 * That's the way to go. Those relationships come and go, and when they end there isn't big announcement, very different from when they begin. And they can ressuscitade any moment.--Legionarius 12:31, 16 July 2007 (UTC)


 * There is also the issue of whether we keep track in WP of former sister city relationships. I would be opposed to that, but it really is only small step beyond maintaining such volatile lists now. -- Donald Albury 13:18, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I am making the choice to not disclose the status, the task is gigantic and honestly not that important. I went through 170 references, and only about 10 of them had clear signs of cancellation. Some are inactive for years and come back to life, and it is very ahrd to find out who is active and who is not. A good rule would be "listed in the website", but this merits discussion.--Legionarius 13:34, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

New History article
I have thoroughly rewritten the rather inadequate history section of this article, and it was far too large to include in the main Fort Lauderdale article. So I used the lead of that article as a summary, and provided a link to the new article, which is at History of Fort Lauderdale, Florida. It's pretty thoroughly referenced, unlike the little summary we had here before, and it's a lot more detailed than what we had before. Please let me know if there are any issues with what I have done; I don't want to get into an edit war, but I think that what I have done is a significant improvement to the article. Horologium t-c 01:16, 16 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I have no problem with the rewrite. I rewrote it last time as I said to you, just to give it some flow until you could come in and do the finishing job. I think it looks better. I do think it still needs to be a little more informative, but in all, I think it has a nice flow and can do the job. Sometimes less is better. Keep up the great work. Junebug52 11:30, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Vertical City
The factoid is quite interesting, but the second part of the statement is not quite supported by the reference. While one could go to Emporis and check each of the other pages for statistics on the other cities for comparison, making the statement "making it the 19th most vertical city in the world, ahead of New York City, Toronto, or Miami (per capita)" is synthesis, which is a form of original research, and a no-no on Wikipedia. You must find a source that makes that statement on one page, either as part of a list, or as a prose statement.

Additionally, there are some questions as to the factual accuracy of the statement. While it is true that Fort Lauderdale has many high-rise buildings, they are not all that tall. Only ten of the completed buildings are at least 30 stories, with the tallest at 42 stories. Miami has 41 completed buildings at 30 stories or higher, including at least seven of more than 500 feet (the tallest in Fort Lauderdale is 452 feet). New York has at least 185 buildings of 500 feet or greater. It's a "quantity vs. quality" issue; Fort Lauderdale may have more skyscrapers per capita, but the buildings in New York and Miami are much taller. Horologium t-c 12:18, 16 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I don't want to take on the task of checking, but are all 172 buildings within the city limits of Fort Lauderdale? Comparisons of this sort also have a bias for central cities that have only a small portion of the total metropolitan population, such as Fort Lauderdale and Miami. On the other hand, Jacksonville, for example, has 96% of the population of Duval County, so its ratio of high-rises to population would be computed on a different basis than for Miami or Fort Lauderdale. In short, I don't see any way of calculating such ratios without introducing serious bias. -- Donald Albury 13:18, 16 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Emporis is pretty thorough; they have their lists broken down by individual cities (in other words, the handful of high-rises in Coral Springs won't show up on any other lists, and the buildings in Pompano Beach are not on the Fort Lauderdale list). With all of the annexation that has been underway in Broward over the past six years, I doubt that there are any high-rise buildings in the county that are not part of an incorporated place (with the possible exception of the Hard Rock Cafe on the Seminole Reservation, which does not show up on the Fort Lauderdale list in any case). Florida is unusually diffuse; With the notable exception of Jacksonville (due to its consolidation with Duval County), few of the core cities in major metropolitan areas have even 20% of the county population, let alone the metropolitan area. (Miami has about one sixth of Dade's total, Fort Lauderdale less than one tenth.) Horologium t-c 13:34, 16 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I put it in twice now, because it's a fact. "Ft. Lauderdale" in all reality is about 50 cities.  I'm actually from Wilton Manors, but I say I'm from Ft Lauderdale.  I almost crashed my damn car to get that pic, and it's still not that good (I'm working on that, the A1A one turned out OK though).  The fact of the matter is, Ft. Laduerdale does have the 19th most high rise building per capita, in the world.  Just because it doesn't seem true doesn't mean it isnt.  Emporis is the #1 authority in the world on this matter.  The list is compiled not on height, but on number, if they question the fact, they can click the link.


 * And Jacksonville? Jacksonville hardly qualifies as a Florida city for god's sake.  It's the biggest city land wise in the continental U.S., a sham!  Miami, meanwhile, is today the center of the 4th biggest urban area in the U.S. (42 worldwide.)  Our point to get across is Ft Lauderale is a large city, even if it doesn't seem like it.  The pic prooves that.
 * Geez! ReignMan 19:26, 16 July 2007 (UTC)


 * We didn't take the picture out; I simply moved it down below the text for that section for appearance sake. Nobody is disputing that Fort Lauderdale has a lot of high-rises, but that doesn't equate to the claim of "19th most vertical city in the world". It does mean that there are a lot of high-rises (in absolute terms, and per capita). That information remained in the caption. Try googling the term "Vertical City" (use the quotes) and -Jerome (because Jerome, Arizona's official nickname is "The Vertical City"; you will find an astonishingly small number of cites for the phrase, which indicates that it is not widely used. FWIW, there are 31 cities in Broward County, although most of them don't have any high-rise buildings at all, and others (Coral Springs, for example) have only a handful. Horologium t-c 20:45, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

A little expansion, a little juggling
I was seriously dissatisfied with the Lifestyle section, which had just three sentences on two topics, and one of the sentences sounded vaguely judgemental. I went ahead and rewrote it, expanded it, and referenced it, which was something that was lacking previously. It's a lot more comprehensive now, IMO.

I also went ahead and created a (referenced) list of sister cities, building off of the information that Legionarius dug up for the List of sister cities in Florida. The new list (linked in the See Also heading) is List of sister cities of Fort Lauderdale, Florida. I also moved the neighborhoods section into the Geography and Climate section, and added a separate subhead for the climate chart. I am trying to consolidate some of the sections to reduce the size of the ToC, which seems to be a stumbling point for many Good Article Candidates, at least recently.

The only major issue left with the article is the severely underdeveloped lede (introduction), which is the next item on my list to fix. I'd like to submit this article for a GA review before the end of the week. We've eliminated all of the redlinks; sourced all of the important stuff; eliminated the nonsense that been added from time to time by IP vandals and hit and run dweebs; moved all of the lists to separate pages as appropriate; and expanded most of the remaining sections. Do we have any other problems that need to be addressed? Horologium t-c 23:44, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Good Article nominee
This article was submitted as a Good Article candidate. Horologium t-c 00:29, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

GAC review
I have placed the article on hold as these need fixing:
 * There should not be anything in the lead not mentioned in the rest of the article.
 * The lead needs copy-editting. Eg, "Three forts with that name were constructed" - what name?
 * More is needed on the city's history between the 1920s and the present.
 * Why were the forts named Lauderdale?
 * The climate section needs text to accompany the table.
 * "The area in which the city of Fort Lauderdale would later be founded was inhabited for more than a thousand years by the Tequesta Indians." - when did they stop inhabiting the area?
 * "The city was incorporated in 1911" - what does incorporated mean? A wikilink may be needed.
 * "An additional 25-30 neighborhoods" - the hyphen should be replaced by an en dash.
 * "Tourist dollars" - this term isn't encyclopedic enough.
 * "Fort Lauderdale is emerging as a location for Latin American headquarters for companies such as Microsoft." - this is difficult to understand. Is Fort Lauderdale in Latin America? Does Microsoft have its headquarters in Fort Lauderdale?
 * "Fire & EMS Services" - what are EMS Services?
 * "Fort Lauderdale's public education is served by Broward County Public Schools." - served in what way?
 * The education section needs to be expanded.
 * "Local transportation is primarily provided by Broward County Transit (BCT), the county bus system." - this sentence sounds as though Broward County Transit provides other transportation services apart from buses.
 * "Weeklies" is a slang term.
 * "Like most cities in South Florida, Ft. Lauderdale's skyline is extremely large for a city of its size." - I'm not sure if a skyline can be extremely large. Extremely and large are also both subjective terms.
 * Try to make the sports and sites of interest sections into prose.
 * It is recommended not to specify the size of images. The sizes should be what readers have specified in their user preferences.
 * Imperial measurements should be accompanied by the metric equivalent in brackets, preferably using a convertion template such as 5 mi.
 * External links only belong in the external links section.
 * Only full dates or dates with a day and a month should be linked.
 * Common terms don't need linking, for example, marriage, English, tourism, and art galleries.
 * A word only needs to be wikilinked once within each section.
 * These need citations:
 * "After the war ended, service members returned to the area, spurring an enormous population explosion which dwarfed the 1920s boom."
 * "Fort Lauderdale is a major yachting center, one of the nation's largest tourist destinations, and the center of a metropolitan division with 1.8 million people."
 * "Fort Lauderdale is emerging as a location for Latin American headquarters for companies such as Microsoft."
 * "The boating industry is responsible for over 100,000 jobs in the area."
 * "The boating industry is in transition as high land cost is forcing marinas to sell and relocate out of the area."
 * "Jim Naugle, will be ineligible for reelection in 2009."
 * "In November 2006, Broward County voters rejected a one-cent-per-hundred sales tax increase"
 * "Fort Lauderdale is also home to one of the ten largest general aviation airports in the country"
 * "Broward General is a 716-bed acute care facility which is designated as a Level 1 trauma center."
 * "which were recently expanded as part of a $160 million dollar renovation."
 * "Stonewall Library & Archives is believed to be the largest-circulation LGBT library in the country."
 * "the slowest period of the year for tourists is September and early October" Epbr123 21:45, 20 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Everything seems fine now. Pass! Epbr123 18:41, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Making changes
Bleah. Lots of problems with the review, and that's after the flabby prose was tightened by the reviewer.

I have started going through and fixing the problems. I still need to pull sections out of the linked history article to expand the excerpt on this page. I need to find references for the boating industry (I suspect a lot of that is going to get nuked) the tourist season (everyone who lives in Fort Lauderdale is aware of the September lull, but finding a credible reference may be difficult). I am reluctant to remove it (as I was the one who added it), but it may have to go if I can't find a suitable cite. I also need to expand the education section (although I am at a loss for ideas) and prosify the sites of interest and sports sections. I think it is a bit much to require prose for those two sections, but I'll see what I can do. Horologium t-c 16:36, 21 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Okay, I have finished the revision, incorporating all of the changes suggested by the reviewer, and adding quite a few more references to the article. I removed a couple of statements for which I was not able to find reliable sourcing. I also fixed a factual error about the number of terms a mayor can serve;it's three three-year terms, not six. Naugle was grandfathered in because the change went into effect after his first three terms. Horologium t-c 17:30, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * This is great... I'm glad this article has been promoted to good article status. I'm happy that I've contribured a great amount.  Great job Horologium! Cary Bass demandez 18:20, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

GA Pass
This article has been reviewed as part of WikiProject Good articles/Project quality task force. I believe the article currently meets the criteria and should remain listed as a Good article. The article history has been updated to reflect this review. Regards, Epbr123 09:45, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Removed from main article,
I removed the following section from the main article as it discusses surrounding cities and doesn't seem all that important to the article. Feel free to comment. Alan.ca 06:59, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Sports Fort Lauderdale does not host any professional sports teams, but the Florida Panthers of the National Hockey League play at BankAtlantic Center in suburban Sunrise. Major League Baseball's Florida Marlins, the National Football League's Miami Dolphins and the Miami Heat of the National Basketball Association all play in neighboring Miami-Dade County.

Lockhart Stadium in Fort Lauderdale was the home of the defunct Fort Lauderdale Strikers of the North American Soccer League from 1977 to 1983, and the Miami Fusion of Major League Soccer from 1998 to 2001. Lockhart Stadium is the current home of the Florida Atlantic University Owls football team.

The Baltimore Orioles conduct spring training in the city at Fort Lauderdale Stadium, and NCAA Division I college sports teams of Florida International University and University of Miami play in Miami-Dade County. Florida Atlantic University's athletic programs (other than football) are played in neighboring Palm Beach County.

Climate
I have been to Fort Lauderdale a few times and have seen a lot of trees and plants that are generally only found in true tropical climates (for example, royal palms line practically every street, coconut palms and towering Norfolk Island pines found on the beaches and in several back yards) wouldn't that reveal more a true tropical climate for Fort Lauderdale than subtropical? Also, Fort Lauderdale is only 20 miles from Miami and the article on Miami says that Miami sits in a true tropical climate. Darthvader1 (talk) 07:05, 27 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Fort Lauderdale is near the edge of the tropical/subtropical split, and while the coastal areas are tropical, the interior areas (especially the Palm-Aire neighborhood, which is a part of Fort Lauderdale) fall closer to the subtropical side. It's not a clear-cut split, which is why I have reverted several changes over the past week or so. A brief check on Google found this research paper (written by researchers at Nova Southeastern University and University of Miami) on E. coli levels in the New River, and they identify it as a subtropical site. Page 127 of this book notes the significant rates in tropical plant mortality between Miami and Fort Lauderdale, noting that only 25 miles separate the two cities; the book was written by two PhDs (biology and botany) and Marjory Stoneman Douglas and is commonly used as a college textbook.  Horologium  (talk) 14:27, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

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Twinning section
Shouldn't a Good article of a city have a Sister cities or Twinning section? --Al Ameer son (talk) 06:30, 9 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Since Fort Lauderdale has 15 sister cities, it was considered a long list, and was forked off to a separate article, List of sister cities of Fort Lauderdale, Florida. It's linked in the "See also" section, along with the even longer List of people from Fort Lauderdale, Florida.  Horologium  (talk) 11:44, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Pronunciation?
Could someone please add an IPA guide on how to pronounce Fort Lauderdale? I'm not sure if it's 'au' as in 'law' or 'au' as in 'cow.' Thanks! Sarsaparilla39 (talk) 09:22, 7 April 2009 (UTC)


 * I added an IPA pronunciation, I think. (Some of the sounds in the IPA with different symbols sound just about the same in General American English, which is probably closest to my own pronunciation.) For ease's sake, the first syllable of the second word rhymes with "fraud", or (especially for you, Sarsaparilla39) the first syllable of "Australia", as pronounced by Americans. It definitely does not rhyme with "cow".  Horologium  (talk) 10:44, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Humid subtropical climate
There is not a tropical climate, and a humid subtropical92.46.137.204 (talk) 13:46, 10 June 2013 (UTC)


 * See Climate of Miami, unfortunately Koppen is taken as gospel here and all of South Florida meets a variation of their faulty definition of "tropical", which is simply a minimum average monthly temp of 65 degrees. B137 (talk) 18:06, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

Move discussion
There seems to be no other "Fort Lauderdale" with an article, the top of this page doesn't even need to have a "Fort Lauderdale redirects here....for....see...". Even Miami has an ambiguous name (ie Miami, Texas, Miami, Ohio, etc. but is notable enough to be a one-name brand. Fort Lauderdale isn't as ubiquitous, but for the lack of ambiguity in the name should be moved to Fort Lauderdale. B137 (talk) 18:10, 11 February 2016 (UTC)


 * Move: As per above. B137 (talk) 18:10, 11 February 2016 (UTC)


 * I agree. No one objected, so I did the move. Lonaowna (talk) 21:05, 15 September 2016 (UTC)

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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071025025129/http://www.miamidolphins.com:80/newsite/dolphinstadium/stadiumpolicies/stadiumguide.asp to http://www.miamidolphins.com/newsite/dolphinstadium/stadiumpolicies/stadiumguide.asp
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070626054939/http://www.ishof.org:80/museum/ to http://www.ishof.org/museum/

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External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 4 external links on Fort Lauderdale, Florida. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070929024629/http://ci.ftlaud.fl.us/news/2006/boatshow.htm to http://ci.ftlaud.fl.us/news/2006/boatshow.htm
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070726215844/http://www.floridaschoolchoice.org/Information/OSP/ to http://www.floridaschoolchoice.org/Information/OSP/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20160121081144/http://www.wavestreetcar.com/home to http://www.wavestreetcar.com/home
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071102161240/http://www.bankatlanticcenter.com/about/History.asp to http://www.bankatlanticcenter.com/about/History.asp

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External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Fort Lauderdale, Florida. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140701174600/http://gis.fortlauderdale.gov/PDFs/ITS/Neighborhood%20Associations%20%2811x17%29%20-%20Fort%20Lauderdale.pdf to http://gis.fortlauderdale.gov/PDFs/ITS/Neighborhood%20Associations%20%2811x17%29%20-%20Fort%20Lauderdale.pdf

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