Talk:Forty-fives

Untitled
The name of the game is Forte Fives... you should change the page —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 141.149.179.127 (talk • contribs) 09:16, June 5, 2006.


 * There doesn't seem to be a consensus on that. —Fleminra 04:27, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Title of game
I am from the Merrimack Valley. I've always heard the game called forty fives. Now it could be that the first word was always slurred (a characteristic of our accent) but the second word was always "fives" never "five" I would like to move this to the title "Forty-fives" anyone object? We can also discuss if it should be "Forte fives" or "Forty-fives" but lets at least pluralize the second word as it is always in the title. Jdufresne 21:25, 24 August 2006 (UTC)


 * As of 10 years ago, it was called "Forty Five" (singular) in the south of Ireland. I can't find any web references for that though.  Don't know about other times or places.  —Fleminra 20:50, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

It is forty-five or forty-fives here in the Maritimes. I never once heard of the name Forte Fives until I read this page. I think it highly unlikely as most people don't know what "forte" means. TJAQUES, New Brunswick. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.34.225.122 (talk) 23:49, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

Cleanup
I added the cleanup tag to this article. Each section has oversized paragraphs with run on sentences that are hard to read. The rules of the games aren't very clear for someone with no experience with the game. I thought this could use some attention if anyone has the time to do it. Jdufresne 03:51, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Done, except for the 110 section since I am exhausted. Stoneice02 05:04, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Name of game
In Bruff, Co. Limerick, Ireland the winner is the first to get forty five points. I presume this is the root of the name. Posted description of the game as played in Bruff area at http://www.geocities.com/bruffsite/forty_five.html

Rule 5 ?
For rule 5...

One card is played by each player, in turn, starting with the player to the left of the dealer. The winner of this round, the trick, is determined by who played the highest card. The winner gets five points (on his way to 120). A bonus trick worth ten points rather than five points is awarded for the best card played during the round. This is determined at the end of the round.

What is the difference between the "best" card and the "highest" card. Has the author confused the terms "round" and "hand"?


 * Sounds like it. Someone want to make the change? Stoneice02 03:53, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Number of players?
I happen to be re-learning 45's after years of not playing, and was happy to come across this wiki. First question: no where is it said how many people can play at once, besides the team play variant description. I'd make the edit, but I don't know the answer. --Permeant 19:27, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Rule Clarification
At what stage is a card played? If I pull a card from my hand and it is clear for all to see, then I change my mind. Can I play another card as long as the original card does not leave my hand?

AUCTION 45 – The Maritime 125 Game
Guidelines for Standard Play (I use the word Standard to mean the most popular rules accepted across the Maritimes. I've deleted all the variations I had previously included as they have been covered in detail by others.)

All rules for Auction that I have come across state that the game is won when an accumulated score of 120 is reached, however, in the Maritimes I personally have never played or heard of anyone I know playing to 120 points. Maritime Canada consists of Nova Scotia, New Brunswick and Prince Edward Island while Atlantic Canada is the Maritimes plus Newfoundland. Historically the game was probably played to 120 here as well, but now in this part of the world the game is won when a point score of 125 or better is reached. I believe the rationale is that 125 points prevents a team or player from easily going game either by scoring 30 points when one is at 90 or when a team or player is at 100 it’s not possible to go game by scoring just 20 points. (In Newfoundland they follow the same rules as noted below, but the game is still played to 120 points and the game is commonly known as “120.”)

"Auction 45" is the term used for the game where trump is declared by the winning bidder rather than by turning over a card as is the case in the game of basic "Forty-Fives."

Auction is usually played with four people in teams (couples), however, it may also be played by two, three, five, or six people. In two- and three-player games, it's every player for themselves. Four- and six-player games are divided into partners with partners sitting alternately. The five-player variant is also known as “Call Your Partner” where the player who won the bid may "call" for a card.

Deal

1. A standard 52 card deck is used with the Jokers removed. One card is dealt to each player and the player with the highest card deals first (in deciding the deal highest card is the Ace). If the same players start a new game, then "Losers Deal".

2. Each player is dealt three cards at once, starting with the player left of the dealer and continuing in a clockwise direction. Then each player is dealt two cards at once, in the same order. It is the dealer’s choice to deal 3 & 2 or 2 & 3.

3. Auction is played with a four-card kitty where the kitty receives two cards at the end of each time around or all four at the end of the deal. Dealer’s choice.

4. Under no circumstances is the dealer permitted to "rob the pack" after everyone has discarded (i.e. the dealer is not allowed to steal cards from or look through any of the player’s discards or the remainder of the deck).

Bidding

5. Players bid based on the strength of their hand. Bidding is done before a trump suit is declared. Players can either pass or bid 20, 25, or 30 points based on how many points they think they can earn with their hand if they get to call the trump suit. (Variation: A bid of 15 is often used when beginners are just learning the game.) Bidding goes in the same order as the deal (clockwise), each player bidding five or ten points higher than any previous bid.

6. A player who passes is excluded from the bidding process. The dealer may raise the bid or has the option of saying "I Hold", which means they steal the highest bid thus far. Only the two highest bidders or the highest bidder and the dealer are able to continue bidding. Either of the two in turn may now raise their bid to a higher value, or in the case of the dealer “hold”, or pass (“It's Yours”). Finally one player will win the bid.

7. For example, in a four-player team game: Player 1 (clockwise from the dealer) may bid 20, Player 2 may pass, Player 3 may bid 25, then the Dealer holds. Players 1 and 2 are the lowest bids and are not permitted to bid. Player 3 can either bid 30 and then the Dealer could hold or pass (“It's Yours”), or Player 3 can pass and give it to the Dealer for 25. If the Dealer had passed to begin with, Player 1 could either bid 30 or give it to Player 3.

8. A 30 bid is always called “30 for 60”, which means that if the player or team gets all 30 points in the hand they get a bonus of an extra 30 points. If they do not win the bid, they only go down 30 points. Thus a team at 65 points that bids 30 or “30 for 60” will either win the game or they will drop down to 35 points. Note that a bidder who bids lower than 30, but makes 30 points in play only scores 30. After a bidder who has bid 20 or 25 wins the bid, s/he may raise his/her bid to 30 before calling trump or picking up the kitty; the advantage of this is for 30 bonus points as described above.

9. If all players pass, the dealer has the option of not playing the hand and passing the deal to the next player or taking the bid for a bid of 15 points.

Trump

10. The player who wins the bid “Calls Trump” by announcing the trump suit.

11. After trump is called (it must have been declared prior to this step), the person who called trump adds the kitty to their hand.

12. After winning the bid a player may discard face down all five cards of their hand and "Go On the Kitty". This means they can choose the trump only from the cards in the kitty and the original five cards are gone “forever.”

13. Players then discard face down any unwanted cards (usually non-trump suited cards except for the Ace of Hearts). (Players do not need to retain one card in their hand for the draw.) The winning bidder may not keep more than five cards.

14. In the same order as the original deal, the dealer replenishes each player's hand so that all players have five cards. Note that if a person needs four or five cards, they are dealt three cards the first time around and one or two (respectively) the second time around. Thus the dealer never deals more than three cards at a time.

Play

15. The person to the immediate left of the winning bidder plays first.

16. Players must always follow the suit of the lead (bottom) card (the suit of the card of the person who played first), if possible, unless they play a trump (i.e. a player can “Trump-In” at any time in their turn).

17. The leading card can only be bettered with a better card in the same suit or with a trump.

18. Any trump suit card beats every non-trump suit card (except the Ace of Hearts which is always considered trump, see below).

19. Reneging: The only time in which a player may choose not to follow trump suit is when the player is reneging or if s/he does not have any cards of the trump suit. For example, a player might wish to save the most powerful card (the Five of Trump) if s/he believes that another player is saving another strong card, or until s/he believes the other trump cards have been exhausted so that s/he can have the advantage of leading the remaining tricks. The action of holding a card in this fashion is known as "Reneging.” The Five of Trump can be reneged at any time.  The Jack of Trump and Ace of Hearts can be reneged with these exceptions: the Jack must be played if the Five is the lead (bottom) card and the player has no other trump.  The Ace of Hearts must be played if the Five or Jack is the lead card and the player has no other trump.

20. Once a player has revealed his/her card to players, that card is deemed to have been played or A.K.A. “A Card Laid Is a Card Played.” A card is only retrievable and must be retrieved if it was found that a player didn’t attend to the rules for following suit.

21. Each completed trick is retrieved by the winner and placed facedown next to the player.

22. Any player may call to see the cards that were played in the last trick provided the request is made before the first card of the next trick had been lead.

Scoring

23. Points are added from round to round until a player or team reaches 125 or better and wins.

24. When points are counted at the end of the round, the winning bidder adds their point total only if it equals or beats their bid. If they do not "meet their bid" they instead subtract their bid amount. This is known as being "Set" or "Setting the Bidder." The object for the players that did not win the bid, therefore, is to make as many points as possible while at the same time preventing the bidder from making their bid.

25. Each trick won is scored as five points and the trick with the highest trump card in it is scored an extra five points or in other words ten points for the high-trump-trick. Thus all five tricks total 30 points.

26. Scores below zero are called "In the Hole". A player cannot be removed from the game for having a score that is too low (i.e., there is hope for everyone...even the player at -80) until they reach a score of minus 125 when they are considered to have lost the game by “Going Out the Back Door.” (This prevents a player from overly monopolizing the bidding and going down continually.)  In a game with two, four, or six (with two teams) going out the back door would end the game with the remaining team winning by default. In cut-throat the play would continue with the remaining players.

27. The winner(s) of the game is the first player or couple to reach 125 points.

28. Once a player or team reaches 100 points or more they must win the bid to receive points. The other players will go up or down, but the 100 or above players will stay at the same score. They are locked in at that score unless they win the bid (i.e. “You Have To Take the Bid To Count”). A player or team will go down if they bid and fail. This will then take them below 100 where they can score for tricks made against the bidder again until they get back up to 100 or more. This encourages the remaining players to bid against a player who is approaching 125, so that s/he will rarely be able to win the bid cheaply. (Variation: if playing that 15 bids are acceptable, then each side having 100 or more points is not allowed to bid less than 20.)

Six-Player

29. Auction with six people is played with two teams of three (or as Cut-Throat as noted below). Rules are as above except that each player automatically draws only three cards whether they need them or not. A player then keeps the best five out of the eight, discarding the three worst cards face down. Rather than deal each player’s three cards at the time of the draw it is often easier to deal them as a separate three directly after the deal. A player is restricted from bidding if s/he inadvertently looks at these three cards prior to trump being called.

Cut-Throat

30. Three people play cut-throat (every player for himself/herself), whereas five (or six) play a cut-throat version called "Call Y'r Partner". In this version, bidding and discarding are the same as above, except just prior to the first card being played, the winner of the bid calls for a trump card. The only card that s/he cannot "call for" is one that is higher than any card in his/her hand. Thus a player can never call for the "Five of Trump". A player usually calls for the next best card available, hence if s/he has the Five and Jack of Trump s/he would say "I call for the Ace of Hearts", whereas if s/he has the Jack of Trump and Ace of Hearts s/he would say "I call for the Ace of Trump".

31. When a card is called, the holder of that card becomes the caller's partner for a single round. The other three players play for themselves and against the pair. The card that is called must be played on the first trick so that the caller quickly knows the identity of his/her partner. The holder of the called card would give no indication that s/he possesses the "called" card until it's played. If after the first trick no one has played the card that was called, then the caller does not have a partner for this round.

32. Partners gain and lose points together, so either both go down by the bid or up by a number of points equal to or higher than the bid. The remaining three players score as usual, noting that players at or above 100 do not score any points. In “Call Y’r Partner” if the winner of the bid does not earn a high enough score from their hand to go game, their partner whose score was at 100 or above and could have achieved 125 does not go game either. When points are counted at the end of the round the winning bidder adds to their point total as usual, while the partner in this specific case does not score any points at all so that this partner’s score remains unchanged.

33. Note that if the winning bidder's partner has a score of exactly 95 and they make 30 points, they "Sneak Out" by going game regardless of the winning bidder's final score. Provided the above conditions have been met, if one partner wins the game, the other partner is considered to have won as well regardless of their score.

34. After each round of scoring, partnerships are dissolved.

Card Ranks

The rank of cards depends on a number of factors. A basic way it is commonly thought of is "Highest in Red, Lowest in Black."

35. For red trump cards (hearts and diamonds): 5 of suit, Jack of suit, Ace of Hearts (even if trump suit is diamonds), Ace of suit (if trump is diamonds, void if trump is Hearts), K, Q, 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 4, 3, 2 (all of suit).

36. For black trump cards (spades and clubs): 5 of suit, Jack of suit, Ace of Hearts, Ace of suit, K, Q, 2, 3, 4, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10.

37. When a non-trump suit is led, a trump suit will always beat it. If no trump card is thrown to beat it, the suit that is led is the only suit that can win the trick. However, the Ace of Hearts is always considered trump. The orders are as follows:

38. For red non-trump cards: K, Q, J, 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, A (Ace only in Diamonds).

39. For black non-trump cards: K, Q, J, A, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10.

Strategy

40. A significant strategy towards winning is the practice of the player to the right of the winning bidder playing what is known as a "Sticker" or "Kicker" card on the first trick of the hand. The "sticking" player sacrifices one of his/her best trump cards by playing it into the bidder. On the surface it appears that this is simply a waste of a good trump card, but from experience it almost always pays off in the rest of the hand. On the flip side, if one has only the Jack of Trump or only the Ace of Hearts, a decision needs to be made whether to play it or not. Playing one of these cards as a "Sticker" will depend on whether the player has one of these cards "dry" or has other backup trump. This comes with experience.

41. The easiest way to learn how to play is to first jot down the card orders in 2 columns one for Trump and the other for Non-Trump and use it for reference while playing. Once the rank of the cards isn't an obstacle learning it is a snap.

I hope that you will find these revised guidelines, which reflect real play in Atlantic Canada, helpful.

Montyz, Dartmouth, Nova Scotia Last revision: March 23, 2012

Montyz 11:36, 14 November 2007 (UTC) Montyz (talk) 12:26, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

I've played this game all over the Maritimes and the local variations are numerous, so I don't think there is any "Maritime" rules. Just local rules. There are terms here I never heard before. Also, the bid called Slam in the article is usually called 60-for-120 around here, although the result is the same -- you lose 60 points if you don't get all the tricks. I've never heard the term Slam used in 45s. Also almost all 45s played in the Maritimes is auction of one form or another, with or without three or five card kitties, with or without a card turned up, and with or without calling trump before looking at the kitty. I've never played 45s anywhere on the east coast where it wasn't auction of some form or another, albeit with some wide variations in play. It is curious that it is only the four Atlantic provinces where this card game in played in Canada. And this article mentions it being brought to New England by French Canadians, yet it is completely unknown in Quebec and usually not the foremost card game amongst East Coast Acadians. They tend to favour a game called Dame de pic ("Queen of Spades"), but maybe the situation was different in former times. It is unknown elsewhere in Canada except in clubs where transplants from the east coast gather. It has been supplanted on Cape Breton Island in the last few decades by an even more obscure card game of Lebanese origin, Tarabish. TJAQUES New Brunswick —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.34.225.122 (talk) 00:05, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Merrimac Vally Rules
Im Bob Corsaro and I grew up in Methuen. I did the December updates. Thanks for fixing my mistakes. Who is Fred and the other dude you added as the last rule? I like to play "bid to go out" and mostly played in methuen/lawrence. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.44.186.24 (talk) 18:12, 18 January 2009 (UTC)