Talk:Four square/Archive 1

How do you play?
This article doesn't actually tell us how to play. It just describes the ball and the court, and then goes on to say "A round is played until..." 66.92.237.111 02:30, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * Echo that. --Phil | Talk 12:05, Feb 9, 2005 (UTC)
 * The person in the highest position serves the ball into one of the other squares, and the person recieving the serve must volley the ball just as in normal gameplay. Yah, this article could really use some work.--Littleolive2 02:39, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

I really don't understand the rules to this game. Someone please describe it better. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.64.217.18 (talk) 16:22, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

I have a comprehensive guide to how the game is played. We have been using these instructions for over a decade. We were the first group of enthusiasts to play on Wall Street. Here is the link to the page where the pdf download is available- I am proposing a link to the pdf download- it is incredibly beneficial to anyone interested in the game. http://collaborationking.com/collaboration-exercises/2009/10/19/four-square-4-square-energizer-rules-successful-team-builder.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by Collaborationking (talk • contribs) 02:29, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Removal of "not known that you can add many more players"
This change was for a good reason if the user was accurate in saying that "it is common for the game to extend beyond 4 squares, to 6 more." But this nameless user added nothing to discuss this variant. If he or someone else can, fantastic. Otherwise, soon I'm going to replace the removed message with something like

"Australian attempts to change the game drastically by adding more players participating in a round are rumoured to have met with success. Successfully changing the shape of the court or its parts (such as "four triangle" or "five circle") remains mind-bogglingly difficult." Arlewis 17:53, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Hitting into your own square vs. hitting into opponent's square
Concerning the manner of passing the ball to an opponent's square, the article states that "the server hits the ball into his own square at an angle so on the second bounce it hits any adjacent square. The receiving player hits the ball into his own square and then play continues like this..." I have played the game (and seen it played) in several Midwestern US states (and West Virginia) and have never seen it played this way. The server bounces the ball once into his or her own square before hitting it directly into another player's square. The receiving player then hits it directly into another square, and so forth. To hit the ball into your own square is to commit a "self," and the player who "selfed" is out. I wonder the nationality or region of the person who wrote the aforementioned section, and whether there are regional patterns concerning this rule that can be drawn out and mentioned in the article. Rohirok 19:40, 17 September 2005 (UTC)

It's played by hitting the ball into your own square first in England Greg321 10:39, 18 September 2005 (UTC)

Well, the article states that the game is most popular in the US, and I have also never seen this variant. zellin 23:10, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

I'm not sure if it *is* more popular in the US than elsewhere. Does anyone have any proof of this? I only know that it is highly popular in this part of Australia, and that at least from about 15 to 5 years ago around here a basketball was far more commonly used than a tennis ball :-) matturn 04:36, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

Well, in my part of Victoria (Australia), the only thing we use is a tennis ball (any attempts using a bigger ball results in utter chaos). On paper, the whole "hit the ball into another person's square on the full" thing seems sort of odd to me. It sounds like playing tennis without a net, I mean, what's stopping you from just smashing the ball into someone else's square? shiwasu 02:10, 14 December 2006 (UTC)


 * We used to play this a lot in Newfoundland -- we called it "squareball". We used to draw it in chalk on the road. As I recall, you bounced it on the serve, then hit it -- the idea being that the ball must bounce once in your square before you struck it, and the initial drop for the serve was not considered a strike. The serve was always from the outside corner of square 4: there was a "crease" drawn where the server had to stand. There was also a small diamond (45-degree-tilted square) drawn at the common point of the 4 squares. You were out if you touched it in any way it before it bounced in your square (including catching it or being hit by it), or, if after it bounced in your square, you failed to successfully hit it into another square (e.g. if it went out of bounds, or hit ANY line except the server's crease, or hit anywhere in the centre diamond). I figured this would have been the way it was played back in the UK, since our insular isolation (Canada didn't join us till '49) meant that our cultural hand-me-downs were usually closer to the British source than that of the rest of the Great White North. But in this case we seem closer to the Major League Squarefour than Association Foursquare. SigPig 02:28, 14 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Heh, no wonder why you guys never 'hit the ball on your own square before it hit opponents', coz you americans are using basketballs instead of tennis balls. Seriously, this article is ridiculous as I usually see - no, make that ALWAYS see that the game of 'Four square' is played by tennis ball. Oh, and I'm from Australia.

As I've almost invariably seen it played, the ball is hit such that it always lands in one's own square first and then on its second bounce lands into an opponent square.(Denidowi (talk) 13:50, 5 April 2009 (UTC))

Latter-day confusion on this topic may be because a section was deleted in the same edit that vandalism was added (edit of 12:25, 1 April 2009 by 71.251.92.63). I've restored this section, "Regular gameplay." --Spike-from-NH (talk) 14:49, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

Basketball and volleyball wikification
Note: basketball and volleyball are not wikified because the articles refer to the sport, while this article refers only to the type of ball.
 * This seems pretty pedantic. Presumably, most people will know what a basketball or volleyball is, but in cases where they don't, wouldn't a wiki link to those articles be helpful? Sure, the articles would be about the sports, but the person following the wiki link would most likely figure out that the name of the sport is the same as the name of the ball used in it. Rohirok 19:08, 17 September 2005 (UTC)

It's not actually like this
In New Zealand (at least) we play a quite similar, but different, game called 'handball'. You use a tennis ball and there can be as many squares as possible. Also the terms are different. Perhaps I should add a section to this page explaining how it's done downunder :)
 * Being from Australia, I agree. Perhaps even a seperate article could be of worthiness? --Rilstix 12:30, 24 August 2005 (UTC)
 * In Cincinnati, Ohio, US, we played a game like this with many squares (about 10 squares of concrete slabs) using a tennis ball. A wall on one side was considered in play.  The game was fast-paced, but also prone to cronyism, as players of a certain class teamed up with each other to get the top squares, making it very difficult for other factions who did not own the service square.  Each player was allowed 2 bounces and 2 hits to pass the ball to another square.  They could also leave their squares in pursuit of the ball, and even block an opponent from reaching the ball that they had just passed into the opponent's square.  "Babies" and difficult to reach sideways hits ("smacks") were allowed, though the ball could not be passed to another square with an overhand hit.  I do not recall what we called the game, though we certainly did not call it four square.  I believe a separate page for this game is justified if enough unique material on it can be gathered.  However, if the only information on it is that it is played like four square, except with a tennis ball and any number of squares, a separate stub seems superfluous. Rohirok 19:28, 17 September 2005 (UTC)

Removal of bias in NZ variant
The tennis-ball variant originally said that it was "more skillful and more enjoyable", and I removed that because it was clearly a non-neutral statement, and chopped it down to just "faster play". -- revme

"This is also occasionally seen in New Zealand." Not true. It's *always* seen in New Zealand. I'm yet to see it played without a tennis ball. I'm going to change this to: "This is also the case in New Zealand."


 * I'm an Australian, and being bored teenagers, this is generally what we do in our lunchtimes. We have squares actually made for the game by the school so there isn't any need to chalk any squares.

Anyway, basically, I've been playing since I was about seven and I have very rarely seen people play with anything other than a tennis balls in Australia, but in the US most people play with basketballs. To make a comprehensive article on this is very hard, as there are so many international variants, not to mention at least a few house rules for every single group of players.

Back to the tennis ball matter, it is faster and more enjoyable to me, but the difficulty is increased.

Kingpin
The rules of Kingpin as they were given were confusingly inconsistent:
 * In this version the squares are ranked King, Queen, Jack and Dunce (in some variants Dunce is replaced with 'baby'). The player in square 4 (King) moves to square 1 (Dunce) when they are out (see above), with the players in square 1 and 2 (Dunce and Jack) moving up into squares 3 and 4 (King and Queen). The players in squares 3, 2 and 1 (Queen, Jack and Dunce) all move to square 1 (Dunce) when they are out, while players in lower numbered squares than the eliminated player progress to higher squares.  Only when the player in square 1 is out does another player enter the game.

This doesn't suggest what happens to the player in square 3 when the player in square 4 is out, nor who moves into square 2. Further, the player in square 1 going out is given two different treatments. I've rewritten it according to what I believe is the intent. However, I'm not actually familiar with the variant, so could someone check that it's now right? 4pq1injbok 05:55, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

International Variants
The article becomes very confusing given all the variants across the world. It seems to me like we should have a section of extremely basic rules (the Variants section can stay the same) for each country so that each section doesn't have the inevitable "except in Zimbabwe where the game is played on jet skis with a baby hippopotamus". That way people unfamiliar with the game could actually get some idea how to play 4-Square in all its basic variations without all the international bickering about ball size and where the squares should go. That's just my two cents worth. 4SquareCommish 11:00, May 24th, 2006


 * I took a stab at reorganizing this entry by separating the basic game play from the custom or regional information. I hope this is more clear and sets a precident for other posters.  seaneffel 11 July 2006


 * In particular, I think you made a genius move to put all the custom service rules on an entirely seperate page. I think the whole thing reads a lot more clearly now. Very nicely done! 4SquareCommish July 29th, 2006


 * I only folded the special rules into one section, someone else had the initiative to move them to a separate page. It was genius, but i can't take credit for it.  seaneffel 31 July 2006
 * I had to add a local favorite variant Side Game to the list with "Tea Party." Some adults were teaching some of our kids last night and this was one we here in the Midwest used to do back in the day.  I hope no one minds the addition.  FilWasHere 6 August 2006

Bard College
It's silly to continually add "(most notably Bard College, where players gather every Wednesday from 10pm-1am, often sober)" when the Four Square club at Bard College has a perfectly serviceable web address.Wisygig 07:12, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

History
I have added a history section, referencing Urbana Illinois USA in the late 1960's as a possible (but imho possibly just a rumor) origin of this game. The intellectual variants (round-the-world, calling a category of information, etc.) suggests it was invented or greatly modified at a school. I played this game all throughout the 1970's on Pell Circle in Urbana. Please don't just delete this reference - find a better reference, or leave it as is until we find an earlier reference to the game's invention, to trace down the origin of this game. Thanx. User:SystemBuilder, 19 April 2006 (UTC)


 * If you can find a link to somewhere this is documented, that'd be great. Otherwise, I'm afraid it looks to be original research. Wisygig 05:35, 1 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I used to play it at Junior School (age 7 years old) in 1976, so it had definitely moved to the UK by then. Mrstonky (talk) 03:26, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

I'm curious to know more of the history of Four Square. Having set up a court at Burning Man the last two years (2006 and 2007), my camp has noticed a couple of interesting things. One, people over the age of 35 who grew up east of Ohio have never heard of the game and had no idea how to play. But, people under the age of 35 who grew up on the East coast were very familiar with the game. Everyone who grew up on the west coast was familiar with the game. We had a group of Austrians, and they were unfamiliar with Four Square. The rules seemed to vary with every new person who would join the game. Does anyone have any idea how or when this game was started? Evanstruth 11:08, 4 Septmeber 2007 (UTC)

It certainly cannot have originated in the 1960's: we played this game in the 1950's in grade school in Southern California. Wschart (talk) 20:35, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

Severe vanity problems in article
I have removed many of the references to individual players and their created moves, as this violates the Wikipedia guidelines for vanity (Vanity guidelines). I have also deleted info that was admittely unrelated to Four Square (if it is irrelevant it needs its own article.) Created moves that are admittedly "very difficult to pull off", "hard to master", etc. and/or at least some of these comments have been removed as well. Finally, it would be impossible for every schoolyard variation to be listed on this article, so please try to limit the specific moves to the most commonly known ones. --Goldrushcavi 17:15, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Aussie Rules
I've noticed that the page says that if a player is at fault, they go out and everyone moves up, then the first in line out of court goes in. I've played this game many times with people from schools all over Victoria, Australia and the general rule is that if you are out, you move to Dunce, whether you are King, Queen or Jack. It is only if you go out once in Dunce that you leave the court, and the next person comes in.

I have also never seen the game played with anything other than a tennis ball, and games even not starting through lack of a tennis ball, despite other sized balls being eatshit!!!!!!!!!

A few variants which I have noticed to be the norm in Victoria: -Re-do is called replay, and called by the King alone if a decision is too close to call. It is the expected norm, rather than being a rule chosen at the start.

-Liner: If the ball bounces clearly on a line, the Queen can call Liner. The ball is given to Queen, who can serve it as a King would. A King can override the decision with a Replay call. While a liner seems to be a given, the way in which the Queen serves can be decided before the match, as it could be a normal serve, or one which bounces from the centre before being hit.

-"Didn't like it": A player can grab the ball directly after a serve and say "Didn't like it", and return it to the King to be served. The amount of times a player can do this per round can be decided before the game, and they MUST play the ball once they have used up their "Didn't like it"'s. At my school (I'm still 13) we call them propers

GP At the schools I went to, "Didn't like it" was called "Don't Accept". We didn’t have a limit, though (mainly due to the fact that King or “the person in square 4” wouldn’t serve it properly). shiwasu 02:00, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Yes, this is all true and it is how it is played at my school except for the liner and "didn't like it" parts, which are obviously possible variants.

One thing I would like to add, the rules can be changed so that only the king goes to dunce if he is out, but it is straig to the waiting line if anyone else goes out. Another rule is "all star squares" in which anyone who is out goes straight to the line, including the king. Danger Al 07:19, 18 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Penneshaw Rules: Perhaps this should be on the currently empty talkpage for Four square regional... The small (primary/grade-school age) area school I attended still has many painted foursquare courts, and consistently played to fairly rigid rules which were not shared by the two other schools in the area (which played 'pat' with a tennis ball).

This isn't my school's variant in full, but these are the major differences.
 * Foursquare was played with a basketball.
 * Our squares were named King, Queen, Jack, Dunce.
 * We may touch the ball with bodyparts above the waist, we may not hold the ball.
 * Replay can be suggested by anyone, but the decision falls to the incumbent King.
 * The King serves, the ball must be served into the king's square, the King's foot being in the outer corner of his square.
 * All other hits must be bounced into another player's square. The player and square being one, bouncing into your own square is a 'double-hit'', which is an illegal move.
 * If the ball hits the ground or an object anywhere outside the court, the last player whose body or square it had hit is disqualified - they leave the game (regardless of position), and will usually take the back of the queue (awaiting reentry through Dunce).
 * This means you are allowed to throw the basketball at other players. Throwing the ball at someone's head is risky though, and therefore rare; if they dodge, your ball will land outside the court, this is "hitting out", and you are disqualified.

Just another voice, here.--The Chairman (talk · contribs) 09:41, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Classic
This line should never be removed: "Generally speaking, the longer a player remains in square four then the more points or street credit that player earns."

I think there should be an expanded discussion of the associated street cred, if possible. --152.2.240.132 23:59, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

because not all versions have the top square as the square four, i think it shoul db echanged to "the longer a player remains in the top square..." --69.73.106.243 06:01, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Please create Child Articles about your club, team, school, rules, etc.!
This must remain intact as an article about the sport of four square. If users flood this existing article with more localized rules, names, teams, clubs, etc, etc, then it becomes unreadable and it will be difficult for anyone to learn about the sport itself. So many people are contributing new content, and everyone wants to publicize their own flavor of four square, the appropriate way to do this is to start your own child wiki page and then link from the main Four Square parent article. You can start this by creating a wikipedia account and reading a little of the manual: []

seaneffel 02 Oct 2006

Again, start your own article. Just removed Raljoball and made it into its own wiki article because it doesn't have anything to do with four square. --Sean Effel (talk) 00:46, 16 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I suspect the Raljoball editors added it to this article because the Raljoball article was previously deleted (here). Wikipedia is not for things they made up, and hopefully one day they'll learn that. Somno (talk) 01:12, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Court Questions
Under the "Boundaries" sections it states that foursquare is normally played "any hard surfaced court, such as wood or asphalt." While I believe this is true I am also familiar with foursquare played on soft surfaces including carpeted rooms inside buildings. This is a common replacement for asphalt when it is too cold to play outside. Is anyone else familiar with this? The same basic rules apply indoors and no changes are made. I will add it to the page momentarily.

All those special rules lost...
Its a darned shame that those 300 special rules and tricks were utterly deleted from the branch article (Individual Server Rules). That was probably the best compilation of rules that the world ever had at its fingertips. If anyone knows how to undelete or pull from an archive, I would love to get my hands on them and post them in a more appropriate place. I understand and respect the academic approach to wikipedia but there has to be some concession made for contributing new content that isn't documented anywhere (such as all the playground variants of four square from all over the world.) Anyone have any ideas? Contact my user account, or post the recovered article there so I can retrieve. --Sean Effel 18:55, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

yeah, i think that variations of the rules and special considerations should at least be mentioned. around where i live, theres more special calls(pac-man, bus stop, rollercoaster, stuck in the mud, baby world, etc) than the regular bouncing gameplay!

Capitalisation of Square
So should the S be capital or not? The title of it uses s, but then the rest of it is S. --WikiSlasher 13:01, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

- As best as I can tell, Wikipedia seems to only have caps in the first word if its not a proper noun. I always cap each word but then it gets corrected by another user. --Sean Effel 18:38, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

I think that the article should be retitled Foursquare, as the American Heritage Dictionary refers to it as such, (Merriam-Webster's and Dictionary.com don't have entries for the word). 24.6.179.152 (talk) 06:55, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

Main Picture
Isn't that picture incorrect in accordance to the International League?

Someone edit the part under Errors and Elimination where it say "Your mom would be mad at you if you got out.

That picture is indeed incorrect according the rules of the International 4-Square League, but since this is an article about 4-Square in general and not just the way the I4SL plays it, I don't have any problem with it. 4SquareCommish May 14th, 2007

Adirondack 4-square
To the person who deleted all of my alterations to the 4-square page, and commented that this was because of additions relating to how "one day camp does it," I would like to inform you that you are seriously mistaken. Perhaps you are not from upstate (Capital District Region) New York, but the style developed in Speculator, NY during the mid-1990s spread to over 15 schools and many more local parks and playgrounds in the Albany Area over the past 15 years. Since we have more registered competitors in our tournaments than some of the other recognized four square associations on this webpage I ask why this style of play should not receive equal display on this page? Over 2,000 people engage in this style of 4-square each year. I have not critisized anything from the other forms, I have memerly added a different style play. Is there some hidden agenda on someone's part to prevent the world community from knowing how this game is played in upstate NY? It seems that the other associations listed on this page are just as regional.

Thank you.

Nighthawk50 03:51, 1 October 2007 (UTC)(A concerned wikipedia user)

Oh, and in addition to the aforementioned data, the changes I have made to this page reflect the official rules of the 4-square clubs at SUNY Oswego and Cornell University (two colleges in upstate NY).

Nighthawk50 04:03, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Then you really have to show some documentation or citation for the information you post or it runs the risk of deletion due to original research. Its happened to me before and it sucks, especially when there are no other resources out there like with four square in general. None the less, if you have official rules for your clubs, then your clubds should have their own articles.--Sean Effel 19:00, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Officiation and Judging
This section does not make any sense and should be removed or completely redone. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.81.178.28 (talk) 23:04, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Two Square?
I used to play "four square" in elementary school, but we also had "two square" courts. It's essentially the same game but with two players only, and a court similar to a tennis court but without the net. I don't see any mention of this in the variants section. Anyone else play this version? Yeshuamyking7 (talk) 19:03, 31 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Please see Articles for deletion/Two square for consensus regarding redirect of "Two Square" to the "Four Square article". Please work with it as part of the article.  Also please see WP:OWN if you feel a personal issue here.  --Pmedema (talk) 17:08, 7 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Thank you for the information regarding the "Two Square" afd. I was not involved, but agree that a separate article is not necessary.  All I wanted was to see if this was a game others had played, and if so, to have some mention of it in the article.  I would at the outset mention that the information on the "Four Square" page about "Two Square" doesn't exactly jive with the game I played.  I have no recollection of anything to do with 11-points or some such.  It was just like four square but with two people on a tennis court with no net, as I mentioned above.  Maybe I'm forgetting something.


 * Also, I'm not sure why you've suggested I visit WP:OWN. I never created an article Two Square.  I've never edited the main article Four Square.  Are you assuming I'm the anon who took out your "two square" stuff?  Because I'm not.  I haven't even looked at the page since I made the note above. Yeshuamyking7 (talk) 00:15, 9 January 2009 (UTC)


 * I stand corrected. It was other editors that were exclusive editors for 4 Square and not you.  I had created a general response and posted on what I thought were the relevent editors.  I appologise as I should have looked at your past edits before I posted to your talk page with WP:OWN--Pmedema (talk) 13:54, 12 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Not a problem. Just wanted to correct the record and let you know to be on the lookout for someone who isn't me. :-) Yeshuamyking7 (talk) 15:56, 12 January 2009 (UTC)


 * I keep deleting the two square stuff. Apart from it being only slightly related, its also uncited.  This article can't be the place for dumping rules made up during childhood.  Policy on wikipedia is that if it's uncited or original research then it doesn't belong.  If you want to add customized rules for four square do it on the See Four square regional page, which is where the two square stuff lives now.  Go there quick and add some sources and it stands a chance of staying there.  --Sean Effel (talk) 23:32, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Yesterday I cleaned up the rules overview a little and was lucky to read this page and Four square regional before adding a Section 1.6, "Variants," which would have reopened old debates. The subsection I didn't add contained two items: (1) a mention of the two-person game, which the article now lacks after the well-documented deletion of the separate article on two square, and (2) a generic overview of two local options for handling a ball that comes in high (catching it; or block-and-drop). The rationale is clear for not documenting what happens on every playground, but the article seems to be missing these two points. --Spike-from-NH (talk) 10:09, 17 March 2009 (UTC) Including "two square" on this page about four square is terrible. The games have little in common, they don't share enough structure or rules to show they have anything to do with one another. The article says it is scored in similar ways to volleyball? Then it should be on the volleyball page. And the "team two square" has even less in common with four square. And none of it is cited so it doesn't belong in a well-written article. I'm moving this content back to the regional rules page where variations of stuff that kids make up should go. --Sean Effel (talk) 03:06, 26 April 2009 (UTC) PS. While I'm at it, the "typical variations" paragraph can't be named as typical if it can't be supported by other published works. Moving that, too.--Sean Effel (talk) 03:08, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

I have moved the Australian variant to the main four square article
As per the nomination of four square regional for deletion. I have moved this variant, the only sourced variant onto the main page. This was previously an entire article, a very small article, called Australian variant of four square, but due to the ten-thousand word discussion at its talk page, it was deemed appropriate to move it here. I am planning on expanding it soon with an "In popular culture", "Domestic competitions" and "Description of the rules" sections, only when reliable sources become available. Feel free to help, I will occasionally clean up and reference the main four square article so as to act within Wikipedia's policies and procedures. I look forward to working with the regular editors. Thanks! Alex Douglas (talk) 04:36, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

I will move the discussion of general variations of the game, and of two square, here from Four square regional. No, Alex, it's not sourced, and I wouldn't know where to begin, but I believe it is on more solid ground than the list of schoolyard chants and rituals that forms much of the rest of that page.

I will move Alex's summary of Australian handball before the section on tournaments, as discussion of variants is part of the theory of the game, which is separate from discussion of the real-world practice.

Separately, someone has added or re-added material that is on less solid ground to the start of Section 1. I have deleted it but it is available from the archive. I have no strong feelings on this material, though it is unlikely ever to be sourced, but it must not appear before the definition of the game. --Spike-from-NH (talk) 14:23, 12 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Very good, Spike-from-NH. The general variations and a sourced variant (Australian) looks very appropriate to be placed here. Happy editing. Thanks! Alex Douglas (talk) 02:54, 13 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Then I will lightly edit your contribution on Australian handball, retaining the citations. The introductory sentence describes attributes that aren't different from the general description of the game, but omits to mention that the ball is different.  By the way, I enjoyed reading the reference (footnote 10), an editorial criticizing the zero-risk tendency leading to bans on the game.  But it doesn't contain specifics; was it preceded by a news article that would be a better reference? --Spike-from-NH (talk) 13:15, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Your edits just keep improving the article, thanks again Spike-from-NH. I enjoyed the editorial as well and I've had a look for a preceding article but I've had no luck. Thanks! Alex Douglas (talk) 06:59, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Finally, an addition to the four square article that has cited its sources. The Australian variety is a good addition to this article.  The two square content was not so hot.  The game needs its own page, which it had once but was deleted for lack of citation to validate it. --Sean Effel (talk) 03:19, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Am despairing at the job of maintaining this article. It is a magnet for anonymous contributions about how the game is played, and what the children chant, at my high school--which contributions are unlikely ever to be covered by an independent newspaper reporter. Have just moved a new section on four square in Florida to Four square regional, omitting the unverifiable material on how skilled Floridians are and how much more seriously they take the game, and noting in the change history that the regional article might go away (to which the new text will not argue to the contrary). These contributions will not stop; the regional article might serve as a repository for them, and Alex is free to regard it as not part of the "real" Wikipedia. --Spike-from-NH (talk) 14:12, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

"Considerations"
Sean Effel has deleted the entire section on Two square (and, to quote his edit rationale, it is not a "game that [I] made up," though it lacks citation). In its place, he has inserted a section, itself totally uncited and unsupported, which develops the absurd thesis that "It is important to scale the game [to avoid] frustration and resentment," though he borrows a footnote from the Australia section, citing an editorial that ridicules that very opinion. The result is a blemish on the article, not an improvement. Again, I despair of helping to maintain this article, which is a magnet for so many people on so many soapboxes. --Spike-from-NH (talk) 22:38, 26 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Spike, 1. The two square section once had its own page but was deleted because it was a poorly written and sourced article. Follow the thread above.  They decided it was a good idea to move their article to be a part of the one on four square, but it was still poorly written and sourced.  Moving content from a poor article into another one does not improve it enough to make the cut.  2  The Australian handball reference hardly contains enough material about the variation to be useful to readers.  It seems to cover general physical education in schools rather than the variation itself.  I pulled out a piece into the "for children" section that I thought was interesting and no doubt someday someone will come along and work that section into an even more meaningful element of the article.  3.  You seem to have some sense of ownership of this article, and there is no such pretense in wikipedia - there are no maintainers or owners, that's the beauty of this thing.  If you are uncomfortable with your material being edited or deleted then you shouldn't get involved.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.6.217.142 (talk) 06:35, 29 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Yes, the material on two square was poorly written and sourced. I am not a two-square expert but a writer and was able to improve the former.  Of course there is no owner of this article, and I am not uncomfortable with my work being edited.  With it being deleted, and replaced with a sermon on the necessity of adult supervision of the playground, yes.  --Spike-from-NH (talk) 01:58, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

What's the size?
What's the size of the court???? Why isn't it mentioned in the article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 61.69.27.5 (talk) 07:07, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

I added court sizes that match the official rules found on the Squarefour.org website. They are 16 foot courts, and 8 foot squares. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.92.88.147 (talk) 18:20, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

If body part hits are not allowed....
Then my legacy is null and void. At least they play with body parts allowed at the birthplace of modern four square competition, Becket / Chimney Corners Camps :-P --Bcjordan (talk) 02:46, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

This article seems to be reflecting a standard of play, I am sure you can play it any way you want. But, if all you want is to show off your lucky play on the Frontier court at Becket then you have done a good job. I too cut my teeth on that court in 1996. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.92.88.147 (talk) 18:22, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

Australian Variant
Where is it gone?? I can tell just by reading this that the Australian Variant if not other variants are unappreciated and deleted. There once was a Australian Variant page with great RIGHT info and now its gone, and if I try to find it it redirects me to a sub heading here which no longer exists. Something needs to be done but if I do how do I know it won't be deleted? --Airship (whoops) (talk) 04:10, 1 October 2010 (UTC)
 * I concur. What's happened to it? 124.181.93.99 (talk) 23:58, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Origins
How can a Wikipedia article have so little on the origins of the game? Not even hints? Much less no section discussing how far back it goes? Lacking a better place, I start this section in that hope that it'll prompt discussion on when the game began. For my part, I recall playing in a Melbourne (AU) schoolyard in the 70s where the three remaining players rotated as one was eliminated according to their rank. If the "king" was knocked out, the "Queen" became "King", "Jack" became "Queen" and unnamed (or "dunce?") fourth-place became the "Jack" and a new person entered into fourth place. This is now almost forty years ago. Any advances? 00:58, 14 October 2010 (UTC)


 * We've got theories about four square history, but we're not finding any documentation on anyone's claims. --Sean Effel (talk) 02:44, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

Hate to say it
But tis page is a joke, all the variants have gone. All the rules have gone. It doesn't even have origins or overseas competitions. Now I realise wikipedia is a "academic" wiki and there is sources and all that, but what about the people who play it daily like me? Are we not a reliable source? Plus it says it has to be 4 Squares, I have played a variant with 9 squares and 7 Reserves and it worked fine on the australian variant rules. It says the ball has to be a certain size etc. But we play it with tennis balls and rubber balls, sometimes basketballs but we mod the rules for that so you can kick it. Squares also aren't even the same size sometimes and they all don't join, sometimes we have rebounds. One last thing. What about the shot types, Powershot, Cheapshot, Lowshot, Highshot? Rant over but please answer. --Airship (whoops) (talk) 07:50, 17 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Airship. I suspect that the Australian rules were deleted some time ago because they were poorly cited or poorly written.  You can see from the discussion that this is a problem with much of the article in general.  If you write up some rules and cite your sources then the Aussie contribution would stick around.  --Sean Effel (talk) 02:47, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

champ?
I live in mississauga and we have always called it four square. I have never heard of champ until now.

The much discussed australian rules
I'm sorry, but it simply isn't good enough to not include even the smallest reference to the australian/english rules in this article. It's like making the article on football just on english football, and deleting every single reference to AFL or american football on all of wikipedia. The australian/english rules are substantially different enough that they ought to have a separate article (as a side note, usually it is called hand ball in australia, so perhaps that could be the name of its article), but a separate part in this article is a good way to start.

Now, many users on here talk about the section requiring citations and references - what do you mean? Scientific references? No such thing. Something like this: http://www.mooreteachingtips.com/?p=4 ? There's a great discussion over at http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/1106013. Also http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=530121. There is also a wikihow, that describes the australian rules (here named downball): http://www.wikihow.com/Play-Downball.

Come on, this is a much more skilled version than whatever the americans play with a massive basketball or whatever. I don't say that to bag the american version, I say it to highlight the importance of including it. I see the regional four square page got deleted, good on you whoever you were, but also the australian four square rules page as well, which now redirects here, even though this page doesn't mention any rule set other than the american one.

Let's clear this up. I don't mind writing up the section, just people active on this page - tell me you won't delete it.

Thanking you in advance Mlaclom1 (talk) 06:12, 9 September 2011 (UTC)