Talk:Frame language

needs example

 * Frame language - badly formatted, content is unintelligible. Fredrik 14:12, 31 Mar 2004 (UTC)

This needs a concrete example, badly. Dysprosia 00:12, 2 Apr 2004 (UTC)

What exactly is the "frame concept"? Albertzeyer (talk) 12:12, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

Need article on frames in computer science
Ugh. This article is really nasty. To get a much better definition of a "frame", see Abelson, Sussman "Structure and interpretation of programming languages", section 3.2.

The C/C++ notion of a stack frame is a special case of a frame, as is the AI "slots & frames" concept (see frame problem). The concept of "execution environments" in Lisp are also frames (and wikipedia does not even have any articles on that). Also, an environment variable in a shell is just something that is defined in the "frame" of the shell. (i.e. frames are sometimes called "environments"). We need an article that explains what a frame is, and how the above 4-5 things are really just the same idea in different forms. linas (talk) 20:05, 3 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Needs separate article on frames in computer science, if at all. "Frames" in CompSci have the much better term of "scope" expandable to "scope of accessibility". The "frame/scope" garble-up in this article doesn't belong to here, where the topic is "frames" in a meaning of event context representation, in the sense of knowledge representation of human events, for example the context of walking to a bar to drink beer. Rursus dixit. ( m bork3 !) 21:09, 7 September 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't know any details of what a stack frame is but I looked at that link and that has absolutely nothing to do with the concept of Frames as in AI Frames. Totally different concepts. RedDog (talk) 01:40, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

First Sentence is Wrong
Currently the first sentence says: "A frame language is a metalanguage. It applies the frame concept to the structuring of language properties. Frame languages are usually software languages." A Frame language is not a meta-language. A meta-language (in fact it's rare to actually have a true meta-language) would be a language only to reason about other languages. I can't really think of a language that I would classify as a meta-language (the old Refine language from the Kestrel institute comes closest). What does happen is that people use meta-models to specify an actual language or model or aspects of a language include a meta-language that lets the language do reflection. I don't know what "applies the frame concept to the structuring of language properties" that seems like gibberish to me. And Frame Languages aren't "usually" software languages, they always are, at least I don't know of any frame language that isn't. I plan to clean up this article but thought I would start by documenting some issues in case anyone wants to discuss. RedDog (talk) 01:37, 7 December 2013 (UTC)
 * I've now rewritten the entire article and addressed the above issues. MadScientistX11 (talk) 21:26, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

Good Reference for Frames vs. Objects?
Does anyone know of a good reference that talks about the similarities and differences of Frames vs. Objects? This is one of those cases where I know exactly what I want to say but can't find a reference that supports it that well. The problem is most of the refs I find on Google are academic and talk about sophisticated ways to integrate the two which to me is a total waste of time since the differences are fairly trivial and these days even most AI researchers use Java anyway. Essentially, I want to say that encapsulation was the main difference OO people demanded it AI people didn't care and (even though I'm an AI guy) the OO people were right. Of course I wouldn't say it that bluntly but I'm wondering if there are any good articles by actual people developing real applications that get into the issues. If you know please leave a comment, I'm tracking this talk page. MadScientistX11 (talk) 22:40, 9 December 2013 (UTC)
 * One more thing here is a draft of what I have in mind. Keep in mind this is VERY rough but just to give an idea of what I have in mind. I'm confident that this is true (although of course open to hear if people don't agree) but I don't know of any references that say this: User:MadScientistX11/FramesVsObjects  MadScientistX11 (talk) 23:21, 9 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Please ignore that file now. I've refined it and found some refs and added it to the article as a new section. Still interested in more and better references if available. MadScientistX11 (talk) 19:32, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

Proposal: Merge Frame Article with Frame language
There is currently an article just titled Frame (artificial intelligence) Since Frames in the AI sense don't exist except in Frame languages I don't think it makes sense to have two articles. The Frame article has some useful stuff, a detailed example of a frame that I think is worth keeping but I think its confusing to users to have two articles. I propose Merging the Frame (artificial intelligence) with this one, i.e., keep this article and redirect the Frame article here after integrating the content of that article. Opinions?? MadScientistX11 (talk) 23:07, 9 December 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm planning to go ahead with the merge as no one has objected. The one thing I would like to do is add an example to the Frame Language article. I think having an example is an excellent addition, it's what I always look for to explain things and the one thing in the Frame article that isn't in the Frame Language article. However, IMO the example in the Frame article, like everything else in that article actually, is terrible. For all the explanatory information it could just as well be talking about a relational database or a data structure in a procedural programming language. I like the FOAF article. My plan is to create a new section that is mostly a link to that article and then to do the merge. Of course interested if anyone has alternative ideas. --MadScientistX11 (talk) 20:48, 7 June 2014 (UTC)
 * This is the spot where we were supposed to discuss the merger of Frame into Frame language. Of course "Frame" can be used in multiple ways in computer science, linguistics, etc. However, the article that was merged into this article was clearly about the AI concept and in that case Frame and Frame language are the same concept. If anyone disagrees then please provide a single example of a researcher who did AI work in Frames without some Frame language. Of course people like Levesque and Brachman also wrote in general about the issues that Frames/frame languages had but in all their work and other similar work there is always the idea that a Frame is part of a knowledge representation language. Having an article for Frame (in the AI sense) and Frame language makes as much sense as having an article for Rule in the AI sense and another for rule-based system. Just as you don't have a rule in AI without a formalism for representing rules and an inference engine you don't have Frames without a Frame language. I can't think of a single exception from Schank to KL-ONE to KEE to LOOM and to current tools that integrate with Protege and OWL. --MadScientistX11 (talk) 15:22, 21 July 2014 (UTC)

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