Talk:Frances Ames

Recent edits

 * finally
 * The finality of the ending of apartheid cannot be underestimated. The word is important as Ames and others struggled upstream for decades against mainstream governments that allowed it to flourish.


 * apartheid
 * Apartheid is not capitalized per the relevant manual of style nor in the relevant sources


 * formerly
 * It's important to note that Biko was known as a medical student before he was known for his activism.

Viriditas (talk) 00:08, 18 December 2015 (UTC)


 * I don't agree that "finally" is needed, as it seems like unnecessary emphasis that is not appropriate for an encyclopedia article, but I can live with it.
 * I am surprised that "apartheid" is not capitalised. It would be helpful if you would provide a reference to the relevant manual of style for readers like me who are not familiar with it.
 * I strongly disagree with adding the redundant "formerly" in this sentence: "South African anti-apartheid activist Steve Biko, who had formerly studied medicine at the University of Natal Medical School, was detained by Port Elizabeth security police on 18 August 1977 and held for 20 days." The past perfect tense, "had studied", indicates that his medical studies had been completed ("perfected") before he was detained. there is no ambiguity, and there is no need for redundancy. Ground Zero &#124; t 19:53, 18 December 2015 (UTC)
 * I will address the easiest point of contention first, and then move on to the next when we are done with each one: you say up above that you are surprised apartheid is not capitalized. That's fine, I'm sure we are all surprised at many things every day, but generally we don't change things on Wikipedia based on our surprise. First, the majority of sources that I've used to write this article, do not use the foreign term of apartheid in either italics or upper case. Second, the majority of style guides (Chicago, APA, university level, etc.) do not use foreign terms like apartheid in italics or upper case.  In fact, you won't find any current English style guide that recommends capitalization, and it's notable that even the United Nations uses it in lower case. However, there appear to be arguments that the word is capitalized in the Afrikaans language, but we don't use it that way in English. Viriditas (talk) 01:16, 19 December 2015 (UTC)
 * I was surprised because other government policies tend to be capitalised as proper nouns, see National Policy and New Economic Policy. I accept that apartheid is treated differently. Ground Zero &#124; t 13:08, 19 December 2015 (UTC)