Talk:Frances Cleveland

Clara or Cornelia?!
The middle name is listed as "Clara" on many reliable sources, but here it is listed as "Cornelia", can anyone clear this up? I'm not sure where to search for it. On her tombstone she is listed as "Frances Folsom Cleveland Preston", but no middle name is cited.

It is "Frances Clara Folsom" —Preceding unsigned comment added by TimothyBanks (talk • contribs) 19:56, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Fascist?
I added a few paragraphs on her abominable activism during the 1910s. She was AGAINST woman's suffrage!!!!! She was also kicked out of the National Security League as she was too extremist for even them. I cold understand why it wasn't mentioned before, but darn it, it's really interesting.Arglebargle79 (talk) 13:27, 30 September 2018 (UTC)
 * I'm glad "proto-fascist" is in quotes, because it must be communicating irony. Just because she was xenophobic doesn't make her a fascist or proto-fascist, especially because she was not totalitarian, even if she was against women's suffrage. I'm removing this ridiculous usage of "fascism is anything remotely scary, backward, or not politically correct to the standards of today." In other words, in the source it states clearly:

"'She suggested that Americans did not unite in support of a strong defense because of what she called the 'huge percentage of unassimilated population that cannot think or act together.' The sense of psychological indoctrination and use of fear in classrooms to inculcate children seemed to cross a line within the ranks of the organization and Frances Cleveland Preston resigned from the organization on December 8, 1919.'"
 * She did not resign because of a belief in superior genetics (national origin is not the same thing as race), she did not resign because she was anti-democratic and wanted a totalitarian state, and while xenophobia may be an aspect of fascist ideology being xenophobic and having your head stuck in the 19th century doesn't make you a "proto-fascist." She may have been essentially a jingoist, this doesn't set her apart from the pro-war group that she resigned from. Indeed, the quote makes it clear, the primary controversy was over how children were being involved and that unassimilated foreigners (primarily Irish and German immigrants) were a potential threat, and indeed this was a very common view in places like New York and Chicago; she wasn't different and scary, she was taking things too far for the decorum of the day and was essential hysterical on this issue -- in a similar manner to how some get hysterical over everything being fascism. She was just too crazy for the crazies. --TheWaffleTruth (talk) 11:58, 17 March 2019 (UTC)

Requested move 27 April 2019

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: Moved per discussion. (non-admin closure) – Ammarpad (talk) 16:17, 4 May 2019 (UTC)

Frances Folsom Cleveland Preston → Frances Cleveland – The subject is much better known as "Frances Cleveland" than as "Frances Folsom Cleveland Preston". The proposed name is much more common and more concise. She is normally called Frances Cleveland in other articles, and many users (unnecessarily) pipe the link to this article as Frances Cleveland. Even the infobox of this article names her simply Frances Cleveland. Surtsicna (talk) 15:03, 27 April 2019 (UTC)


 * Support in addition to being more concise, I'm sure she's far more known for being married to Grover Cleveland than to Thomas J. Preston Jr. Let's not give so much emphasis on the lesser known marriage in the article title and just use what she's more widely known as. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 20:13, 27 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Support per nom. This just reverses a redirect and brings the article back to its original title. Station1 (talk) 21:00, 27 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Support per nom and SNUGGUMS. Julia ☺ 22:30, 29 April 2019 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Uncited info
I moved this uncited info to see if anyone has a source.

Frances was the first first lady to give birth to a child while her husband was president. The Clevelands had three daughters and two sons:
 * Ruth Cleveland (1891–1904) – Born in New York City during the interval between her father's terms as president. She died at the age of 12 of diphtheria and is buried in Princeton, New Jersey.
 * Esther Cleveland (1893–1980) – Born September 9, 1893, at the White House in Washington, D.C. On March 14, 1918, at Westminster Abbey, she married Captain William Sidney Bence Bosanquet of the Coldstream Guards of the British Army. Their daughter was Philippa Foot (1920–2010), the British philosopher.
 * Marion Cleveland (1895–1977) – Born in Buzzards Bay, Massachusetts, she attended Columbia University Teachers College and married, first, Stanley Dell and second, in 1926, John Amen, a New York lawyer. From 1943 to 1960 she was community relations director of the Girl Scouts of the USA (Girl Scouts of the United States prior to 1947) at its headquarters in New York.
 * Richard Folsom Cleveland (1897–1974) – lawyer. Born in Princeton, New Jersey, he was an officer in the Marines during World War I, graduated from Princeton University in 1919, earned a master's degree in 1921 and graduated from Harvard Law School in 1924. He practiced law in Baltimore with the law firm of Semmes, Bowen, and Semmes and defended Whittaker Chambers against Alger Hiss's libel suit.
 * Francis Grover Cleveland (1903–1995) – actor. Born in Buzzards Bay, Massachusetts, he graduated from Harvard University with a degree in drama. After teaching for a time in Cambridge, Massachusetts, he went to New York to enter the theater.

If someone can provide citations, then it can be moved back to the article.–CaroleHenson (talk) 00:22, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

Missing section?
This article goes directly from the subject’s early life to her later life with only a passing catalog of children. There is absolutely no information on the part of her life that she was most famous for, being the youngest first lady and very much a subject of media interest at the time. Was this section removed? Was it never written? In its current state, the article is shockingly deficient. The site at has a great deal of information. It cannot be plagiarized, of course, and may have some propagandistic elements. Nevertheless, it gives readers a much better idea of the sort of detail that ought to be included in this article and yet is not.Fleisch57 (talk) 20:11, 7 July 2021 (UTC)


 * You are absolutely right! Are you interested in working on it? Or, perhaps work together on it?–CaroleHenson (talk) 23:08, 8 July 2021 (UTC)

Recent edit
There was some lovely information added to the article, but I reverted it here because it is uncited.

It is very likely that the article will be tagged for uncited content.

If someone wants to research this and provide a citation, that would be great. After I finish working on something, I may come back and do it if no one beats me to the punch.–CaroleHenson (talk) 07:29, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

Featured picture scheduled for POTD
Hello! This is to let editors know that File:Frances Folsom Cleveland, by Charles Milton Bell.jpg, a featured picture used in this article, has been selected as the English Wikipedia's picture of the day (POTD) for July 21, 2024. A preview of the POTD is displayed below and can be edited at Template:POTD/2024-07-21. For the greater benefit of readers, any potential improvements or maintenance that could benefit the quality of this article should be done before its scheduled appearance on the Main Page. This is her 160th birthday. If you have any concerns, please place a message at Wikipedia talk:Picture of the day. Thank you! Adam Cuerden (talk)Has about 8.5% of all FPs. 10:52, 13 July 2023 (UTC)

Ambiguity on the main page
The sentence starting with:

Folsom met Grover Cleveland while she was an infant,

has been changed to

Frances Cleveland [...] She met him while an infant, [...]

Let's imagine the following sentence:
 * "while" is ridiculous here, it should be "as"
 * The sentence will be ambiguous anyway.

"Jim met Ben as an infant."

Who was the infant, Jim or Ben? 85.193.240.163 (talk) 19:08, 18 August 2023 (UTC)