Talk:Frank Abagnale

Tag
Somebody who knows how to do this should add the tag "people of French descent", for which he qualifies. In fact, he's even entitled to French citizenship having one parent of French citizenship. 77.2.141.250 (talk) 19:37, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

Inconsistency in extradition treaty status
According to List_of_United_States_extradition_treaties, an extradition treaty with Brazil was in force by 1964, several years before Abagnale's first capture. How can this article claim that the destination Brazil was chosen due to its having no extradition treaty, when in fact one had been in effect for five years? Aaroncorey (talk) 18:31, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Since no one came with an explanation, I'll remove that piece of information.FlavianusEP (talk) 19:18, 30 April 2014 (UTC)

According to the book, he was acting on second-hand information, he had been told this by a fellow inmate in the Swedish prison. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.26.42.116 (talk) 21:25, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

Time served as a Doctor
According to the book version of Catch Me If You Can, Frank Abagnale spent 11 months as a doctor, not ten days. The doctor he filled in for never returned from leave. He was paid $125/day consulting fee for his work. Ukvilly (talk) 12:57, 17 May 2008 (UTC)UKVilly


 * In choosing to impersonate a paediatrician, Abagnale consciously chose to almost certainly cause the deaths and maiming of innocent babies and children for financial gain. It doesn't get much lower than that.


 * Frank did not write that book, see below


 * http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=Frank+Abagnale&rls=com.microsoft:*:IE-SearchBox&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7GWYE&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=jqCbSaqfPKH4NO2MyJMF&sa=X&oi=video_result_group&resnum=8&ct=title# —Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.127.201.133 (talk • contribs) He also serverd in the army with his dad at 1963


 * Information from Catch Me If You Can is suspect, at best. It was ghost-written and the author changed numerous "facts" to make the story more sensational.  So we need facts ref'ed from sources other than Catch Me If You Can. &mdash; Frecklefσσt | Talk 14:05, 18 February 2009 (UTC)
 * There's no cite for that. Still, there's little factual information about his frauds anywhere; even if he had written every word in the book, there still wouldn't be corroboration that it was true, only that he claimed it was true.  — Arthur Rubin  (talk) 19:10, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

According to http://www.usatoday.com/life/movies/news/2002-12-22-catch_x.htm : Abagnale said "I impersonated a doctor for a few days. I was a lawyer for a few days. In the book, it's like I'm doing this for a year." In his book "The art of the steal", Abagnale says: "I had spent a year there [in Atlanta] pretending to be a doctor" (page 8, see the book preview on Amazon). He pretended to be a doctor, but he has not actually served as a doctor during a year.

Sociology teacher in Utah
The following website claims that Frank Abagnale worked as a Sociology teacher at Brigham University. http://www.crimelibrary.com/criminal_mind/scams/frank_abagnale/7.html. This website was the same reference used in the section "legal industry jobs". I don't know how accurate this site is, but it would make sense to follow suit since we are using it as a credible source in other areas. --ciyean

Helping Authorities for Free
He was not released upon that condition. He had tried several jobs, then became fed up and approached a bank with an offer. He explained to the bank what he had done, and offered to speak to the bank's staff and show various tricks that "paperhangers" use to defraud banks. His offer was, if the bank did not find his speech helpful, they owned him nothing; otherwise, they owed him $50 and spreading his name to other banks. Naturally, they were impressed, and this event was how his new, legitimate life, began. (You may actually find what I wrote here to be usable in the article!)

-- Myria 2004/09/10


 * Added the info--thanks! I guess the previous information was gleened from the movie Catch Me If You Can which took a lot of "liberties."  Thanks for the correct information! :-)   &mdash; Frecklefoot | Talk 14:04, Sep 13, 2004 (UTC)

Check your facts. --208.187.180.214


 * I see you edited that information back in. Where did you get your information from?  The only two sources I know are the book and the movie.  The book took some liberties, but the movie was pure fantasy.  Cite your source or I'll change it back.  I suspect you're taking the movie as your source, which is fictional.   &mdash; Frecklefoot | Talk 18:14, Apr 22, 2005 (UTC)


 * http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=863466638241927396&q=frank+abagnale&total=25&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=1


 * According to that he got pulled out of prison by the government so the whole "going to a bank and showing them tricks" thing is false. I-baLL 14:39, 30 July 2007 (UTC)


 * People, you can't just make things up or take someone's word for this. The FBI hates this story.  Be careful. 73.6.96.168 (talk) 07:04, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

Cleanup
Article is currently not very good. I am an avid fan of Frank Abagnale, but my only source has been Art of the Steal and Catch Me if You Can, and I know both are fictionalized to a certain extent. I for one was surprised, when reading the article, when Abagnale also claimed to have just been a TA. The whole filling-out-account-numbers con was listed in CMIFYC, but that was much later. Can someone who knows Abagnale better clean up the article and confirm facts? 71.108.156.252 02:43, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * The current state of the article is actually pretty good. That is, it is wikified, the grammar is correct, it flows nicely.  Factual errors aren't a reason for placing the  tag.  If something really is factually wrong in the article, fix it.  But don't place the cleanup tag in order to prompt others to check facts.  You can bring it up here, as you have done, but every article is a work in progress.   &mdash; Frecklefoot | Talk 16:47, Jun 6, 2005 (UTC)


 * There are actually several sentences that are written very poorly. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 198.54.202.214 (talk • contribs).

I heard Frank Abagnale speak at NYS Government Techonolgy Conference yesterday (9/25/2008) and he told his version of his story. According to Mr. Abagnale, woking for the FBI was a condition of his early release from US prison. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.22.236.230 (talk) 13:05, 26 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Example: Second sentence in Airline Pilot section does not flow properly. Perhaps it is in the wrong spot? (Apologies if this is not helpful, I have never commented on Wikipedia before.) 70.109.130.4 (talk) 20:39, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

Williams, not Conners
According to the book Catch Me if You Can, Abagnale's medical 'career' was under the name Frank Williams. "Conners" seems to be an invention of Catch Me if You Can the movie. I've made the change. 64.231.226.174 06:29, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

New York City, Westchester County
The article mentions he was "born and raised in New York City, Westchester County," but given that Westchester doesn't contain any of the boroughs of the city of New York I'm a little confused. I don't know his biographical information, however, should the article say he was born and raised in NYC and Westchester should one of those locations be deleted?

Oklahoma?
Why is this article under the categories Category:People_from_Oklahoma and Category:People_from_Tulsa%2C_Oklahoma? Frank Abagnale was born in New York and spent most of his childhood there. Does he live in Tulsa now? If so, is there any source to back up this claim? Thanks. Ufwuct 16:04, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
 * There are multiple, credible sources that confirm that he has been living in Tulsa for several years. That he has made Tulsa his home for some time is not in dispute. Harry Yelreh (talk) 08:16, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

OR material removal
''I attended a speaking engagement by Frank Abagnale at a dinner of the Raleigh-Durham Chapter of the Institute of Internal Auditors at which he described his imprisonment in France as being held in a 5x5x5 metal box. He stated that when extradited to Sweden, the first judge he saw had him to a hospital because of his emaciated physical condition. It was a very moving speech by a sincerely contrite man.'' Lincher 21:45, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Not really Brigham Young University
''I attended a speaking engagement by Mr. Abagnale last night (19 January 2007) near Park City, Utah. Someone asked him if he really posed as a teacher at Brigham Young University, and he said "no", that the author of the book changed names and places, so listing Brigham Young University is not factually correct -- although he did pose as teacher somewhere.


 * Yes, and the example you raise helps make the point that people need to be extremely careful when using the book Catch Me If You Can as a reference. There are numerous differences - mostly minor, but differences nonetheless - between what happened in the book and what happened in Abagnale's real life. Harry Yelreh (talk) 08:19, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Citations?
Jimbo has come down strongly on the side of User:CyberAnth in the CA's removal of unsourced material. Please get some citations on the bad stuff that Abagnale did or consider re-applying CA's deletions. You know: line up the sections with the external links. -- 71.141.246.35 02:48, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Now I think I see what the problem is: Is all that info is from his book and is not cited? If so, then please just say it is from his book to clear up the matter. I am certainly not going to read his book so somebody else, please step up. Also: This guy cannot sue himself for libel, so if you think that his book has any "exaggerations" in it, then please tone it down to just the verifiable facts. I am sure that he spends a lot of time of entertaining, dramatic (or dramatized) moments that are, in the end, not notable. -- 68.127.172.142 04:25, 29 January 2007 (UTC)


 * There is nothing controversial here. If you or CyberAnth have specific concerns then put a "citation required" tag on the bits you find controversial. Jooler 18:49, 30 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Slapping a "citation required" tag on a BLP article isn't the right thing to do. It needs to be properly sourced or removed. Frise 08:39, 31 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Jooler, Frise is exactly correct. This is not an article about Bluebirds, who can only scantly be affected by what is said about them. Read WP:BLP and all policies appertaining carefully. Problematic BLPs on WP can stand to bring this entire Project down. They must be gotten right. CyberAnth 10:22, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Prison term dates?
Did he go to jail in 1971? Then he couldn't have been released in 1974 and served 5 years. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 198.54.202.214 (talk • contribs).

Escape from airplane
The article claims he escaped the airliner as shown in the movie, through the toilet gap. This is incorrect as he states in a talk that is available on Itunes in a podcast called "Flying pilot podcast" Episode- #17 Catch frank abagnale if you can! *Podcast is free of charge* The podcast plays a recording of a speech given by Frank Abagnale where in he states he did not go through the toilet space, he jumped out of a galley door onto the taxi way and the door swung closed behind him. And is confirmed by Frank himself as he is interviewed by the Podcast owner. I would highly recommend anyone that is interested in Frank Abagnale to listen to this episode of the podcast. The talk Frank gives is very informing. The toilet trick was invented by the movie producers and is stated to be impossible. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Spbeyond (talk • contribs)


 * I thought it was in the book too. But that doesn't really matter, as the book has been demonstrated to contain fictitious accounts as well.  If you can give a ref to the Podcast, we can use it as a source and change the info in the article. &mdash; Frecklefoot | Talk 14:15, 24 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Whoever had posted that [Why say claims and go on for a few sentences] part, that is most definitely not the formal tone of an encyclopedia. If you have questions about the way articles are written, leave them here. 72.24.242.152 02:12, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

its Joe Shea not sean o'reily
it says that its sean o'reily who was the f.b.i agent in charge of his case in the section of his escapes, that section was taken from Frank Abagnale's book, where he used the pseudonym "Sean O'Reilly" in his book because Joe Shea was still in the F.B.I. it has been changed to joe shea now.

Current life
Currently living in Oklahoma I think. Has several children -- one of them named Sean. Someone want to look this up? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.231.242.102 (talk) 05:07, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Tag
The article bio follows extremely closely the subjects self-published (ghost written) autobiography "catch me if you can". The similarity extends to perspectives on incidents, his and others words and reactions, and the like, which greatly mirror the book.

The article also contains unencyclopedic editorializing, such as "Naturally, they were very impressed, and he began a legitimate life as a security consultant."

We have very few independent reliable sources that these are in fact neutrally stated, and reliance on his own description is unwise and probably very limited. With a background of this notoriety, other sources exist, many of them. We need to be referring to them, not just his bio or things he originated, as a fact-check. Even if the book is neutral and factual, we would still be better to cite third party sources where possible, but there are few sources cited, and most of the "story" is a mirror of the subjects viewpoint.

Accordingly I've tagged this article since it doesn't actually meet the need to be primarily based on independent reliable sources yet.... FT2 (Talk 01:40, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

I don't understand how this tag is gone. The above remarks are still completely true. This article does not seem encyclopaedic to me. It is a nice, yet unreliable article. 85.69.58.77 (talk) 22:47, 19 October 2016 (UTC)Guillaume

Fair use rationale for Image:08catchme.jpg
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BetacommandBot (talk) 04:47, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Date of birth
Hello, I watched the video I will reference below which is alreadey referenced here for other reasons. Here is the video of a speech he gave http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=863466638241927396&q=frank+abagnale&total=25&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=1.

In this speech he says he was born in April of 1948 and not 1946. 69.247.215.148 (talk) 04:25, 30 March 2008 (UTC)Mike Herndon

Parents
I wanted to bring up this video of frank speeking that is contrary to things on this page. His parents are the main one. divorced at 16, never saw father again.

http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=Frank+Abagnale&rls=com.microsoft:*:IE-SearchBox&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7GWYE&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=jqCbSaqfPKH4NO2MyJMF&sa=X&oi=video_result_group&resnum=8&ct=title# —Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.127.201.133 (talk) 06:39, 18 February 2009 (UTC)


 * If it could be confirmed that it is really Frank speaking, and there's some sort of authentication for it, it could be used as his statements, to some extent. — Arthur Rubin  (talk) 19:04, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

So talking in front of an NADA conference, showing his face, and haveing press talk about it is not proof enough. The NADA it self says it was him... http://www.nada.org/MediaCenter/News+Releases/2005/BMW%E2%80%99s+Tom+Purves+to+Deliver+Keynote+Speech+at+2006+Convention.htm

In the an interview with Abagnale in the special features of the movie Catch Me if you can he states that he was 16 when his parents divorced and he subsequently ran away. I changed it for now, but can anyone come with some reliable citations? Kentourian (talk) 03:30, 3 March 2009 (UTC)Kentourian


 * That is without question the real Frank Abagnale giving the speech to the NADA in that video. However, there are several minor inconsistencies with what he says in the speech and with what is written in the book Catch Me If you Can. He condenses some things in the speech, and other things are just flat-out changed. For example, in the speech in the video he says that his father died while Frank was in the French prison. In the book, he clearly explains that his father was still alive and that Frank contacted him even after Frank had served prison time in Europe and had been sent back to the U.S. Whatever the case might actually have been, I believe it is true that Frank did not actually see his father in person after the age of 16 and that his father did die while Frank was incarcerated somewhere. Exactly where and when, though, I don't know. So, some the precise details are tough to pin down. Harry Yelreh (talk) 18:33, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

Carl Hanratty
Did Carl Hanratty exist if not the main article needs to be edited. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.206.160.135 (talk) 21:11, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Good catch. Fixed. This is something that people need to be careful about. Essentially, Carl Hanratty was the name of the FBI agent in the film. O'Reilly was the pseudonym of the FBI agent in the book. Joe Shaye (sometimes people spell it "Shea," and without a reference in front of me, I'm not sure which is correct) was the name of the real-life FBI agent. Harry Yelreh (talk) 05:37, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Time as a doctor
The paragraph says "For almost a year" and "he stayed for twenty-five months" Which is it? I'm pretty sure in the book he writes it was about a year... but like someone said above it's not exactly trustworthy... Robert Beck (talk) 20:41, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

"Veracity" section
It's rather confusing - I think that whoever wrote it was getting the DC-10 and the British VC-10 confused. Since I haven't seen the movie or read the book, someone else is probably going to be a better person to correct/update it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.35.35.35 (talk) 23:09, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I concur. I do not have the information at hand to confirm, but I strongly suspect it was a McDonnell Douglas DC-10, as the Vickers VC10 was a much rarer airplane. Seen landing in the movie was an airliner with engines under the wing, consistent with a DC-10 but not the VC10. Whatever airplane it is, the text is quite confusing. Numero4 (talk) 08:01, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
 * It's definitely the VC-10. The first deliveries of the DC-10 were in 1971.  If Frank was on a DC-10, it would have been one of only a handful in existence at the time. In addition, all the DC-10's would have been with American or United: the launch customers. Both carriers were purely domestic at the time. This also matches the reference given to the paragraph.--Fbfree (talk) 04:47, 25 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Don't be silly. It was a DC-10.  This guy is about my age.  The VC-10 was unheard of in America in any case.  73.6.96.168 (talk) 06:51, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
 * The DC-10 was not completed until August 29th, 1970 and was not introduced in service until August 5, 1971. His deportation from Sweden would most likely have been in a DC-10, as SAS never flew the VC-10.

Prison of Perpignan
The description of Perpignan's prison is extremely confusing and seems to describe 1569 and not 1969! As far as I know (I'm french), not a single person has been jailed like that after WWII times and I really wonder why a trickster would deserve a treatment that even terrorists or violent prisoners never got. I think it would be nice to check the sources of the correspondant paragraph; if Abagnale himself is the only source, maybe it's not very reliable... And if there are more reliable sources (an article repeating Abagnale's own words don't look enough to me), maybe link them? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.118.184.70 (talk) 15:30, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

The Art of the Steal dates
In the Books section, it says The Art of the Steal was written in 2002 and published in 2001. Fp cassini (talk) 02:04, 14 October 2012 (UTC)

tv series white collar
It is said in the article that he was the inspiration for White Collar protagonist, Neal Caffrey, but I didn't see any reference that proved it.

—Since the first time I knew about Abagnale I also thoughth he was the inspiration for Neal's character, but I like to be sure about things, does anybody knows about an interview or anything in which that is admited? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chupafrutas (talk • contribs) 02:20, 14 February 2015 (UTC)

Better photo in lead?
A Wikipedia article should probably not lead with a large, clearly blurry photo. I don't like posed photos, but at least the subject didn't move while the photo was being taken. Hijiri 88 ( 聖やや ) 03:22, 17 April 2016 (UTC)
 * The photo has been updated with one that was submitted using Contact us/Photo submission. Storkk (talk) 15:03, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

Catch Me If You Can was "a story" not a biography
Possibly the worst BLP I have read as much of it is based on the book Catch Me If You Can, which Abagnale said was "a story" not a biography. Needs serious attention. Nurg (talk) 10:08, 25 December 2018 (UTC)

Agree that this article is terrible. Uses fictionalized movies and books as sources. Good grief. 174.62.124.183 (talk) 21:43, 26 August 2020 (UTC)


 * So what part of "based on the book" do you folks not comprehend? It's a semi-autobiographical story base in part on some stuff that happened.  No one ever said it was base entirely on "real life".  Come on people.  Read the book or anything on IMDB or anywhere else.  It is fictional.  73.6.96.168 (talk) 06:56, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

Wife's name
The 'Further moves' section lists his wife's name as 'Joy', but other sections including the information box list her as 'Kelly'. It seems from the article that Frank Abagnale was married only once so this is unclear and needs to be corrected.

79.180.252.74 (talk) 20:35, 8 April 2019 (UTC)
 * The source for the paragraph that mentioned "Joy" clearly discussed Kelly. No idea who "Joy" was supposed to be (probably vandalism).  General Ization  Talk  20:55, 8 April 2019 (UTC)

Temporary autoconfirmed protection
Lots of drive-by vandals, and vandalised vandalism, so I've put 1 month autoconfirmed on this as a BLP. Any objections? - David Gerard (talk) 07:54, 24 October 2019 (UTC)

Kudos
Well done to everyone for adding the veracity challenges by Mr. Logan. Well done indeed. --Tit four Tat (talk) 03:57, 11 August 2021 (UTC)

Anti-Abagnale Crusade
So after watching CMIYC on Netflix, I was reading the Wikipedia articles on the film and Abagnale himself (this page) and I'm seeing all of this material connected to Alan Logan's book and I have to say. . . it looks like someone has been peppering Wikipedia articles on Abagnale with antagonistic information. So I look up the book--which is self-published--on Amazon and one verified review says, "The best works of this kind of investigative non-fiction have an author with a certain detachment and neutral presentation. That is completely absent in this book. It doesn't take long for the reader to determine that Logan loathes Abagnale. Given his fraud and the damage he inflicted on so many people, this is understandable on a personal level but it doesn't work in a book. Sometimes it comes out as petty asides about Abagnale gaining weight or losing his hair, which is distracting and unnecessary." I don't know if Logan is personally inserting information into these Wikipedia pages, but they now contain the sort of shoddy reference material that is consistent with that hypothesis.

The whole second paragraph of Abagnale's page is just about Logan; the language comes across as amateurish ("easily verifiable evidence i.e. court documents shows his real life timeline does not match his claims"); there are several instances of authoritative citations to minor "outlets" like the "Louisiana Voice", which is literally just a blog powered by Google's Blogger; there are petty snipes taken like "[he was] required to recompense his Swedish victims (which he never did)" that aren't even sourced; and then there are the sources that don't even prove what they allege to prove! Like the sentence, "Despite public records showing Abagnale targeted individuals and small family businesses,[14][16][17][18][23] Abagnale has long claimed publicly that he "never, ever ripped off any individuals''" (which sounds pretty clearly like the writer has an ax to grind). Source #16 is a newspaper clipping about him being charged with impersonating a border official. I cannot figure out how that is supposed to support the claim that he "targeted individuals and small family businesses" or contradict the idea that he "ripped off any individuals."

I'm writing this up here instead of trying to fix it myself because (1) this really feels like a lot of specific, quasi-original research written with a bias/agenda; (2) I want a second opinion on that; (3) I want to call attention to the systemic problem (here and elsewhere); and (4) it looks like a lot of work. But it's my opinion that this work needs to be done. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 100.16.63.188 (talk) 04:10, 3 October 2021 (UTC)

Also--geez-I just had to remove Logan's book from the "Books" section. "Books" means books written by the subject. Not any relevant books whatsoever. That goes in a "see also" or "references." Please stop writing reference material with an agenda in mind. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 100.16.63.188 (talk) 04:24, 3 October 2021 (UTC)

The entire Wikipedia piece is slanted. It's basically a hit job based on one author's not well sourced book. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.60.206.182 (talk) 19:12, 13 September 2022 (UTC) "Please stop writing reference material with an agenda in mind." <-- this advice needs to be given to Abagnale seeing as he makes up to $30k per talk. Who has the agenda? My agenda is truth, not to support the fantastical whims of a convicted, and now disgraced, con man. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Phigeas (talk • contribs) 13:38, 5 October 2021 (UTC)

In Defense of Tom Aswell (a Response to So-Called "Anti-Abagnale Crusade")
As a fan of Tom Aswell, I simply have to counter this. The Louisiana Voice is operated by Tom Aswell, one of Louisiana's best-known journalists. He has 30 years of journalism experience, has worked for major Louisiana newspapers, and has edited FBI agent Del Hahn's book on Barry Seal (Smuggler's End). Aswell has zero tolerance for liars and does not suffer fools.

The Louisiana Voice articles on Abagnale include links to original reporting in the Advocate showing Abagnale's crimes in Baton Rouge, and Abagnale's unwillingness to sign the "Truth Affidavit" at the University of South Carolina. Those original articles also state that Abagnale never repaid the Parks family. Eventually the local bank did.

This whole thing isn't that complicated, it only requires Abagnale to make a public statement to counter the Louisiana Voice articles. He should say that he was never in Great Meadow prison between the ages of 17 and 20, never convicted of auto theft in Boston, never convicted of stealing from a Baton Rouge family. He should state publicly that the Delta stewardess Parks is a liar, and that he never showed up at her workplace and stole from her family. He should provide documentation of his court-ordered repayment to the Swedish families he ripped off, or he should state publicly that the Swedish families are liars and that they were paid back. He should say publicly that he never ripped off anyone in Friendswood, Texas. He should provide documentation of repayment of half a million dollars to hotels via the law firm he claimed he hired. He should provide his 9th and 10th grade Iona Prep yearbook photo where he claims in countless youtube speeches that he went to school "through the 10th grade". Funny that Abagnale is conspicuously absent from both the 1963 and 1964 Iona Prep yearbooks, his 9th and 10th grade years. He should state publicly that the official records obtained by Logan are false.

You complain of an anti-Abagnale bias, and yet provide a cherry-picked snippet of one anonymous amazon review of Logan's book out of 130, without mentioning that the very same review states "the author builds an air tight case proving his thesis". You write that the book is "self-published" perhaps to infer that it can't be trusted. Logan's book has won multiple awards, including the Independent Book Publisher's Award for True Crime.

Kenneth C. DeJean, the First Assistant State Attorney General of Louisiana, stated that "Logan should be commended" for his work. Correcting 40 years of misinformation and disinformation is a difficult task. I think a reasonable person will choose to trust the actual attorney general, and not the guy who claimed he was an attorney general. Say what you want about Logan's book, but it isn't shoddy in its referencing.

Source #16 is actually a reference to Abagnale's stolen car arrest in Eureka, California. There is a photo in the newspaper accompanying the article (citation#16 only shows the text) showing the Ford Mustang Abagnale was driving, the one referenced in the wiki article. Presumably the car was stolen from an individual or local shop in Pelham? Again, this is easy. Abagnale can make a public statement concerning the arrest, even though doing that would counter his oft-repeated claim that he was arrested "just once" in his life. Correcting misinformation or outright disinformation isn't grinding an axe. Doesn't it seem more appropriate that wiki should rely on Abagnale's own words first, quote them systematically, and then compare them to known facts?

Frankly, the heading "Anti-Abagnale Crusade" smacks of hyperbole and a complex of persecution that simply doesn't exist. The truth is hard to find sometimes, but that doesn't mean it won't be found - in today's post-truth world you should thank Logan not punish him. Abagnale, on the other hand needs to accept that the record is being corrected and admit he made it up.Phigeas (talk) 14:07, 5 October 2021 (UTC)

Also, as noted above in this very Talk section the Abagnale wiki page was formerly described as one of the worst BLPs in all of wiki - filled with all manner of nonsense that looked more like a PR tool for a fantasist. I, and others, have made a good-faith effort to correct the record using clearly identifiable sources. Prior to correction the entire page was based on only Abagnale's claims. This is not an anti-Abagnale crusade, but rather a clear example of why correcting the record takes an investment of time, effort and investigation, which, unfortunately, the anonymous commenter above (author of Anti-Abagnale Crusade section) was not interested in doing, namely making the effort, and said as much, "and (4) it looks like a lot of work." Yes, correcting truth is a lot of work and I am not going anywhere. Phigeas (talk) 14:07, 5 October 2021 (UTC)

"FBI Ten Most Wanted Fugitives" concession by Abagnale
The article currently claims that "Pressed on this claim when the film was released, and with evidence clearly showing the absence of Abagnale on any most wanted list,[78] he conceded on his website that we was never on the FBIs Most Wanted list.[8]"

However, citation [78] is just the citation of an entire book (https://www.worldcat.org/title/most-wanted-a-history-of-the-fbis-ten-most-wanted-list/oclc/21227684) - it's not immediately obvious that Abagnale isn't on any of these lists.

Citation [8] is just a link to Abagnale's website. The citation states "Retrieved May 20, 2007" - the closest Wayback Machine archive I could find after this date was June 05, 2007: https://web.archive.org/web/20070605085138/http://www.abagnale.com/index2.asp. However, I don't see Abagnale "conceding" anything on his website. The only reference to the FBI that I could find on his website is: "Mr. Abagnale has been associated with the FBI for over 30 years. He lectures extensively at the FBI Academy and for the field offices of the Federal Bureau of Investigation.". There's no mention of the FBI Most Wanted list at all.

Aaron1011 (talk) 22:58, 14 June 2022 (UTC)


 * Thank you for this, that was a sharp observation. It appears that was scrubbed from his website. I have updated the citations to include two primary references dated 2002 and 2003 respectively (The Guardian, The Journal Gazette). Phigeas (talk) 12:53, 15 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Additionally, these references specifically point to Abagnale's website as it was at the time and clearly show his concession on the matter. Thank you again. We have to get this right! Phigeas (talk) 12:55, 15 June 2022 (UTC)

Neutrality
It seems every statement made by Abagnale is prefaced with "he claims", while those by his antagonist is not so slighted. The entire piece seems written not as an information piece, but as an attack on Abanale's veracity. 71.60.206.182 (talk) 19:16, 13 September 2022 (UTC)


 * Please note that everything in this page has been fully reference - including the acquisition of primary public records. The public records themselves nullify Abagnale's claims. Please do your homework. 173.32.130.127 (talk) 19:26, 13 September 2022 (UTC)


 * Very clear the article is an NPV violation. Whoever is "editing" it has a HUGE axe to grind. My first guess would be the axe grinder works for a bank. Which somehow caused me to notice that the reply to your comment was from an IP address (which caused me to notice your comment is also IDed in that anonymous way). Is Abagnale still that radioactive? (I actually thought he had passed away, so I was visiting the article to see when.) Shanen (talk) 20:00, 7 December 2022 (UTC)

Article should be rewritten
Clearly some bitter people have turned this article into a hitpiece for the guy. They don't seem to realize how obvious this is, which is really funny. I'm not denying that he is a conman, in fact I think he almost certainly is, but the article should be rewritten more neutrally regardless. Many of the citations were clearly provided by the authors of the books, which is totally inappropriate, such citations should be removed and accounts banned (fwiw it seems most of them already have been.)

I have pushed some changes to the effect of the neutrality of the language. If you revert them, I will rerevert them back. Sources that abagnale was a conman do not give you permission to paraphrase said sources with less neutral language. 216.164.249.213 (talk) 04:52, 14 November 2022 (UTC)


 * I doubt they are simply "bitter". The persistence indicates they are getting paid. Kind of funny when you consider that Abagnale did it for the money, too. Shanen (talk) 20:10, 7 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Yeah perhaps. I had some decently productive conversations with some of the more persistent editors for what it's worth, although the more shilly ones are nowhere to be found when issues of the article's neutrality are raised. 216.164.249.213 (talk) 05:41, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

Regarding podcasts as reliable sources
Wikipedia talk:Reliable sources/Archive 65 - is the document for reliability of sources. The Pretend Podcast has used primary resources including interviewing FWA himself, used *public* records, interviewed actual eyewitnesses, relatives, former work associates, real victims, and the FBI agent that arrested Abagnale. That qualifies. Please note that Javier Leiva's Pretend Podcast has been a source for the The New York Times (https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/12/style/liars-catfishing-deception.html) and the BBC (https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/12/style/liars-catfishing-deception.html). No one on the reliable sources page gave anyone "instructions" to remove these citations. Please be honest about that. You want the truth, it is in the primary resources sourced by the Leiva. One commenter (216.164.249.213) made a statement about podcasts that is not based on current consensus. Per the consensus statement above, the reliability of podcasts are on a case-by-case basis. I don't know about other contributors to this page, but I check ALL references before I weigh in. 204.237.2.219 (talk) 19:45, 20 November 2022 (UTC)


 * I've read over your link, seems to check out. As for the instructions to remove the pretendradio citations, that did happen, you're free to look through my user history. That being said, I can see that those instructions were given on bad premises, so it doesn't matter anyway. In the meantime, someone should update the SPS page and clarify the site's current stance on the use of podcasts.
 * As for Abagnale's claim about the acceptance rate of the FBI, he makes that claim twice in the video and uses different language in each section. I agree that the claim you cited is the crucial one to include though, so I won't touch that part from here on out.
 * My main issue with the language in the article is not that it's wrong, but that it is unprofessional and lacks encyclopedic tone. It reads as if written by people who harbor a great deal of personal animosity towards Abagnale and accomplishes the opposite goal that is intended.
 * Cheers. 216.164.249.213 (talk) 02:13, 26 November 2022 (UTC)

Section concerning Xavier University
Though the article is generally in good shape this newer section seems to me to read like an opinion piece -- and it's not notable, especially for somebody with as long of a storied career as Abagnale, even with him being exposed for being a fraud. We need to exercise better dilligence while dealing with content such as this.  BOTTO ( T • C ) 19:37, 22 November 2022 (UTC)

The greatest hoax on earth catching truth while we can
Book by Alan C Logan refutes most of the claims by Frank Abagnale Jr, shows how we were all fooled. 2600:6C54:7C00:C5:2869:4DB0:BC2B:B2F7 (talk) 05:59, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

"an obscure cover story of True Detective (January 1978)"
I think the word "obscure" should be removed. In the 1970s, True Detective was far from an obscure magazine, and if the article was a cover story, I don't see how it could have been obscure -- maybe forgotten or neglected? Kdammers (talk) 00:06, 28 January 2024 (UTC)