Talk:Frank McCourt

Link

 * Hard lessons, Interview by Jay MACDONALD
 * Austerlitz 88.72.28.53 08:49, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

'Tis is the best book ever! UpgradeOpossum 02:13, 8 April 2007 (UTC)I

Quit or finished?
From the two or three times i have read angela's ashes i get more of the impression that because he was too poor frank was unable to continue his education rather than quiting school outright. does anyone else think the wording should be changed? plqgnmv 24 September 2007

I haven't read the book, though I really should one day, but I just watched large parts of the movie. And at least from the movie, it seemed like he didn't want to go to secondary school, because he wanted to start earning money. And this priest even slammed the door in front of him and his mother, without even saying one word them, meaning that they wouldn't let such a poor boy into secondary school. What a shame, really. At least that was what it was like in the movie. But it's nice to know, that Frank went to college in America, even though he never went to High School (!).

Non-pertinent photograph
The photo of McCourt with three other men has nothing to do with the article. One doesn't know who the men are (two of the three are identified, but so what? who are they? why are they pictured in an article about McCourt?) or how this photo relates to the article. This photo should be removed.

"Petty crime" ?
How about changing that reference near the top of the article to "non-violent petty crime," thus reflecting actuality? Who are these gods of Wikipedia who decide what to make editable and what not to? The staff look more and more like a group of teenaged "sysops" from the early days of CompuServe chat groups. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.140.68.72 (talk) 15:11, 23 September 2008 (UTC) 24.211.217.47 (talk) 00:22, 14 March 2008 (UTC)SIMONLEFRANC

Catholic?
He is in the Roman Catholic writers category, but not the Irish Roman Catholics cat. He grew up Catholic, but did he remain so for the rest of his life? Correct &amp; improve (talk) 23:25, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

Married twice or three times?
Online sources disagree as to whether his widow was his second or third wife. Anyone know which is true? How about details of previous marriage(s)? Correct &amp; improve (talk) 23:40, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

~ He said here that he was married 3 time http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-3WoAHV4gY —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.16.92.51 (talk) 01:24, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

Irish or Irish-American?
I would have said he's Irish, having been raised there. It seems both his parents were Irish too.

The only cause I can think of for calling him Irish-American would be if he called himself Irish-American. Did he? Gronky (talk) 09:55, 24 July 2009 (UTC)


 * You may personally consider him Irish as an opinion, but it does not align with the facts.


 * I have no idea if called himself "Irish American" or not, but that would not make a difference one way or another, that isn't how a determination is made as to what a fact is in Wikipedia.


 * You say the "only cause (You can think of) for calling him 'Irish American' is if he "called himself" 'Irish American'.


 * What about the fact that he was American born?? When they start Opinionpedia, you can call him just 'Irish'!


 * Here are the other reasons:


 * 1) He was an American citizen his entire life


 * 2) He returned to America as soon as he was old enough to do so on his own.


 * 3) He served in the U.S. Military.


 * 4) He lived only 15 of his 78 years in Ireland, and those years were in his childhood when he would have no say in the decision.


 * 5) Spent a good portion of his teenage years scrimping and saving all the money he could in order to return permanently to the United States.


 * Based on the facts, there would be no factual justification at all, for calling him solely 'Irish', at the same time I would not call him solely 'American' given his Irish upbringing.(75.69.241.91 (talk) 21:38, 27 July 2009 (UTC))


 * And Gronky, whether he called himself 'Irish American' or not is not relevant, nor would that be the determining factor as to how he is identified. Facts are what are used.


 * You should learn more about Wikipedia and the criteria that is used in it's entries. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.69.241.91 (talk) 20:16, 2 August 2009 (UTC)


 * What about the fact that he was American born? - Well, if I was born in Japan, would that make me Japanese?


 * All the other facts you mention seem to be just the economically-motivated solutions of an Irishman faced with poverty (and the paperwork and requirements of what goes with said solutions). Gronky (talk) 13:23, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, it would, actually. There is a difference between ethnicity and nationality. You might not be ethnically Japanese, but if you were born in Japan and have Japanese citizenship, you’re Japanese. 75.170.100.200 (talk) 16:16, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

His decision to return to America may very well have been partially motivated by economic concerns, but so what? It's not relevant. My Irish ancestors immigrated to America for economic reasons, something to do with a famine, but they ended up Americans. He is still 'Irish-American'. This was more than Eamon De Valera being American by accident of birth alone.

And we were not talking about Japan, if you were trying to make a well reasoned argument here, I don't think you did. I have no idea if being born in Japan entitles one to citizenship, nor do I know your nationality, but that is another matter. McCourt was Irish by parentage, and by virtue of being raised there. He was American by birth, as well as by design.

I get the impression that you don't particularly like the fact that he was Irish American, but your opinions about that do not factor into it. He was 'Irish-American' that is a fact. Wikipedia deals with facts, not perceptions, opinions, or personal biases.

If you were trying to use the same argument in regards to Eamon de Valera, your case would be much stronger as he was an American by birth alone. In any case, de Valera never renounced his citizenship, but I would personally consider him Irish. Wikipedia would describe him as 'Irish-American' as that would be factually accurate.

There is no set of circumstances in McCourt's life or death that would factually justify his being defined as solely Irish —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.69.241.91 (talk) 23:12, 5 September 2009 (UTC)


 * You're just repeating "it's a fact, it's a fact", without advancing any argument.


 * I live in a country other than the one in which I passed my schooling years. The latter is my nationality, and will always be, no matter how long I stay here or in any other region.  I don't think we'd claim McCourt as Japanese had he passed his post-schooling years in Japan, so I don't see why this page is claiming him as "American" along with his Irish identity.  (I'm not saying that it's 100% sure that he's *not* Irish-American, but I am saying I see no evidence presented so far in the article or on this Talk page to support such claim.) Gronky (talk) 17:18, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Most sources, including the Irish Times, call him "Irish-American", so that's what we should go with. -- >David  Shankbone  14:52, 8 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Ok, good point. That trumps the theoretical arguments I've brought. Gronky (talk) 15:37, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

And Gronky, yes they are 'facts' and thats what Wikipedia deals with. I have changer the description back to 'Irish American' despite the fact that someone had edited the entry to read 'American born Irish' which is simply deceptive. And what did you mean you saw "no evidence" he was America???!!!! He was an American citizen by birth, served in the American military and lived almost all of his life there! What more did you need in order to get it through your head??? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Yakofujimato (talk • contribs) 17:52, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

Unfinished work?
I read in an interview somewhere where he was quoted on saying he planned on or was beginning to write a novel. Any more information on this? Wellesradio (talk) 20:21, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Who is Prescott?
The sidebar summary lists a brother named "Prescott", but not Alphonsus Joseph. Are they one and the same? Open2uandu (talk) 00:36, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

Father was Irish
Malachy McCourt was born in 1901, in Ireland. There was no northern ireland in the sense that is linked to by this article at that time. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.100.121.49 (talk) 15:08, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

"Life and Work" section
The current version is duplicative, and self-contradictory. Did the McCourt family return to Ireland in 1934 or 1935? Mark Shaw (talk) 16:30, 23 March 2012 (UTC)


 * I've cleaned up the chronology a bit and added refs. At one point, McCourt's fictional work Angela's Ashes was used as a factual reference which didn't help matters. I have removed refs where the novel is used to support biographical events since a) it's a fictional novel and b) there is strong evidence (noted and ref'd in the article) that much of McCourt's accounts of what happened to his family were greatly exaggerated, i.e fiction. The article still needs a lot of work. Span (talk) 18:32, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

External links modified
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External links modified (January 2018)
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20111220022222/http://www.booknotes.org/Watch/87803-1/Frank+McCourt.aspx to http://www.booknotes.org/Watch/87803-1/Frank+McCourt.aspx

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Parking dead external links here
I am parking one or more external links here that are either dead or no longer useful; If we can use Internet Archive or some other means to restore their usefulness and re-incorporate them into the article, then let's do so. Thanks.


 * http://ra.okstate.edu/osu_tulsa/WritingOutLoud/FrankMcCourt/video.htm
 * https://web.archive.org/web/20071006221214/http://thestory.org/archive/the_story_154_Teaching_Secrets.mp3/view

KConWiki (talk) 15:08, 22 August 2020 (UTC)