Talk:Frank McGee (ice hockey)/Archive 1

Age, Height and Weight
How does it make sense that he is listed under 1892 births? That would make him 13 years old both in that picture and when he scored 14 goals in a game. -- Hmmmmm382
 * It doesn't, actually, given that his first amateur season was in 1899. Actually, McGee's birthdate, as well as damn near anything about his life, is more or less unknown.  I've filled it out a bit, and removed the stub notice -- it's tough to call an article a "stub" when it contains all the non-original research available.  I've also cleaned up some of the language:  people have the notion that McGee was some sort of perennial star when he played in exactly 23 regular season games for the Silver Seven.  Ravenswing 05:57, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

I've added more information. His correct birth date is known. Alaney2k 15:51, 26 June 2007 (UTC) Frank McGee was 6'0 feets, 191 pounds and was born in 1879. The Ultimate Hockey book (Weir, Chapman, Weir) is my source. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.202.66.176 (talk) 01:50, 22 April 2008 (UTC) Frank McGee doed at 35 years of age like the article linked tell. 1916 minus 35 = 1879. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.202.66.176 (talk) 04:30, 22 April 2008 (UTC) Frank McGee was definitely not 6 feet tall. I have not see any source for that. It would definitely be incorrect if that is the listing in Ultimate Hockey, which I don't think is considered encyclopedic. As for his DOB, November 04, 1882 is the accepted date. Alaney2k (talk) 19:23, 22 April 2008 (UTC) As for the age, the article is typed in from a scan and incorrectly transcribed 33 as 35. Alaney2k (talk) 21:31, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

GA Review

 * GA review (see here for criteria)


 * 1) It is reasonably well written.
 * a (prose): b (MoS):
 * 1) It is factually accurate and verifiable.
 * a (references): b (citations to reliable sources):  c (OR):
 * 1) It is broad in its coverage.
 * a (major aspects): b (focused):
 * 1) It follows the neutral point of view policy.
 * Fair representation without bias:
 * 1) It is stable.
 * No edit wars etc.:
 * 1) It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
 * a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
 * 1) Overall:
 * Pass/Fail:
 * 1) It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
 * a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
 * 1) Overall:
 * Pass/Fail:
 * 1) Overall:
 * Pass/Fail:


 * Mmm ... the stats table is quite consistent with other hockey articles. Where it differs is in not including assists, a statistic not tabulated during McGee's playing days.    Ravenswing  18:16, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I mean alternating colours. It's difficult to read if every row has a white background.-Wafulz (talk) 18:31, 22 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I have done the table. I listed the book separately and then there is one reference to the book inline. I was possibly expecting more than one reference to the book. I will work on correcting the references. The first two refs are explanations, rather than citations. I can take suggestions on how to do that better? Alaney2k (talk) 18:44, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
 * If I use books, I split up my reference section into "Foonotes" (for stuff like tags) and "References" (for book titles).

Other Comments:


 * Per WP:MOSBIO, the opening sentence should be "Frank McGee( born x died y) was a Canadian ice hockey player" (omit his birthplace/hometown, it's in the infobox)
 * The lead should mention his blindness, death in battle, and introduction into the HHOF
 * The article inconsistently refers to him "Mr. McGee" and "McGee". Pick one and stick with it.
 * "McGee was also known as" should be "McGee was known as"
 * "after losing use of one of his eyes" should be "after losing use of an eye"
 * Citation #5 has two periods in a row
 * "However, he was convinced to play for the Ottawas at the risk of permanent blindness". This is confusing - did someone convince him to play? Or was he determined to play.
 * "Despite being the youngest member of the team and only five feet six inches tall, playing in a brutal game he excelled for the team". Awkward sentence. Try "Despite being the youngest member of the team, standing only five feet six inches tall, and playing in a brutal game, he excelled."
 * Dates are inconsistent. I see DD MM YYYY and MM DD YYYY both being used. Pick one.
 * "He was notable for scoring several goals in a single game on a number of occasions, the most famous being his 14 goal effort in a 23-2 victory over the team from Dawson City, on 7 February 1905 for the Stanley Cup, the most lopsided playoff game in Stanley Cup history. It remains to this day the most goals scored by a single player in a Stanley Cup hockey game, and has not been surpassed in any professional match" is awkward. Try "He was notable for having several multi-goal games. The most famous came on February 7, 1905, when he scored 14 goals in a 23-2 Stanley Cup victory over the team from Dawson City. It remains most lopsided playoff game in Stanley Cup history, and to this day, no player has surpassed his 14 goals in a professional Stanley Cup match."
 * "a contemporary of McGee's and like him a member of the Hockey Hall of Fame, said of him". Change this to "a contemporary of McGee's and member of the Hockey Hall of Fame, said of him"
 * "After Ottawa lost the Stanley Cup to the Montreal Wanderers in 1906 McGee, although only 23, decided to retire". Try "After Ottawa lost the Stanley Cup to the Montreal Wanderers in 1906, McGee retired at just 23 years old"
 * "Rivalled" is a misspelling - it's "rivaled"-Wafulz (talk) 19:29, 22 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the review. I'll let you know when it's all been addressed. Alaney2k (talk) 21:38, 22 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I've made a few grammar tweaks and promoted the article.-Wafulz (talk) 15:54, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Other stuff
Jeez, what a lot of comments! Can I add one of my own? A question, actually. His 14 goals against Dawson City are listed as having been scored on 7 Feb but also in January. Which one's correct? All the best, Cris Freddi —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.45.193.152 (talk) 00:21, 11 December 2009 (UTC)


 * 16 Feb. Dawson City's series started on Friday the 13th of January. Bad luck for them. &#x0298; alaney2k   talk &#x0298; 04:39, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

Reddick
The best research ever done on Frank McGee - and not reflected here on Wiki - is an article entitled "Killing Frank McGee" published in 2000 in The Society for International Hockey Research Journal. This article was renamed "The Death of Frank McGee" in the encylclopedia "Total Hockey." It is also included in Reddick's newest book, "The Trail Less Traveled," released 1/1/10 by Nauset Sound Publishing. It includes many answers to questions above, as well as much new information. For instance, it is now accepted that he was born 1880. His body lies where he was killed, beside "The Sugar Factory" in a field in Corcelette, France. He was killed by artillery fire, a fact even his family previously did not know. He did not lose an eye, but the vision in one eye. His medical chart does not read (whatever is quoted above, something about seeing at required distance with both eyes), but Reddick has advanced the most plausible explanation of why he was allowed into the army, contrary to the myth expounded by his nephew, Frank McGee in the article. Of interest: he also had two goals called back for offsides in his historic 14 goal game against Dawson, which was played on January 16, 1905. Great new information on that game has just been published by Paul Kitchen in his "Win, Tie, or Wrangle" book on Ottawa hockey, particularly about the motivation - another obscure myth/legend - for his outburst. Reddick's article should be read by someone who knows how to edit this page, and incorporated. Reddick is the real deal, probably one of the best researchers and hockey writers working today. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Albymason (talk • contribs) 23:01, 15 January 2010 (UTC)


 * I've read Win, Tie or Wrangle. Reddick's writings are, at least partially, fiction. That's a problem. Maybe the latest one is different. &#x0298; alaney2k   talk &#x0298; 04:39, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

Arguments against recording McGee's 14 goals scored as an "Ovechtrick"
I have removed (performed an "undo") of the claim that Frank McGee scored the "First Ever Ovechtrick" in hockey history. The term "Ovechtrick" is a fabricated term for a fictional occurrence in a Verizon commercial in which hockey player Alex Ovechkin scores nine consecutive goals in two different games he plays in. Though it is a recognized term in pop culture, it is not officially deemed a term in standard dictionaries. Therefore, it should not be used in a factual sense to describe factual information. Simply indicating that McGee scored 14 goals in a game is sufficient.

Though the above argument should be sufficient to overrule an inclusion of this term, I feel the need to further defend this argument by means of providing the Verizon commercial's own definition of the term "Ovechtrick," which is as follows:
 * "Of or pertaining to the feat of achieving nine consecutive scores in an athletic competition."

By this definition, the nine goals scored would have to be consecutive (i.e.: scored by McGee, one after the other, without another player scoring a goal in between the nine goals he scored). In researching information about the game played by McGee in which he scores 14 of the 23 goals, there is no official box score that would indicate that nine of his fourteen goals scored were scored consecutively. It is quite possible that this did occur. But it is also possible that McGee scored eight goals in a row, followed by his teammate scoring a goal, then McGee scoring another six goals, with his teammates scoring the remaining eight goals. Without an official box score, which is how current hockey statistics are recorded, and without any other proof from video or observer recollection in a newspaper article, there is no proof that McGee scored nine consecutive goals in the game against the team from Dawson City. WeatherExperiment (talk) 22:13, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

In reference to the above, I found some documented information at the website documenting the history of the home of John McGee, father of Frank McGee. In it is a section called "Frank McGee, a hockey legend" and it talks about the 23-2 game in which McGee "put forth his, most legendary performance by scoring a Stanley Cup record of 14 goals in the second match. During the 23-2 rout, the Ottawa star at one point recorded eight consecutive goals in less than nine minutes." This would further corroborate the fact that identifying any nine of McGee's 14 goals scored in that game as an "Ovechtrick" is, in fact, a false interpretation. WeatherExperiment (talk) 16:21, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

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External links modified
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