Talk:Frank O'Connor (actor, born 1897)

photographs
Are there any photographs of Frank O'Connor?

Notability
This article seems to say more about Ayn Rand than about the man Frank O'Connor. Apart from his association with Ayn Rand, is there anything that Frank O'Connor is particularly noted for? If not then I think this article should be merged with the Ayn Rand articleGodfinger (talk) 11:37, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Per WP:NOTINHERITED, I would agree that O'Connor is not notable on his own. --RL0919 (talk) 20:08, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I think before we attempt to redirect or delete this we really need to get wider community input. It's certainly a plausible redirect to Ayn Rand though, if we decide he lacks notability. TallNapoleon (talk) 20:10, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Agreed. I was watching a movie today called 'The Passion of Ayn Rand' after the biography by Barbara Branden staring the wonderful Helen Mirren. I have only recently been acquainting myself with Rands ideas and life so I am no expert on this subject, but I really can't find much about Frank O'Connor the man, although he certainly played an important role in Rands life, and he seemed to be a talented painter and was a bit part actor at one stage but that's all I can find.Godfinger (talk) 20:19, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I recommend redirecting to Ayn Rand.-RLCampbell (talk) 03:32, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

Requested move 22 February 2024

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved to Frank O'Connor (actor, born 1897). The initially proposed disambiguator, "(actor)", would have been a WP:PDAB. Participants were split on whether this article's subject would meet the standards for using a PDAB; it was noted that the pageview gap between this article's subject and Frank O'Connor (director) was low by usual PDAB standards, but also that PDABs with lower pageview ratios had been maintained (in cases such as Bhavana (actress)). If the discussion were purely measuring one disambiguator against another, I'm not sure I would have found consensus here; however, nobody in the discussion supported retaining the current title ("Charles Francis O'Connor"), leaving us in a WP:NOTCURRENTTITLE scenario. In this situation, I feel that it's best to avoid a PDAB unless an affirmative consensus for it is reached, so I've opted to close in favor of the more fully disambiguated title. (closed by non-admin page mover) ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 19:26, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

Charles Francis O'Connor → Frank O'Connor (actor) – When I first created the page, I wasn't familiar with the WP:MIDDLE policy advising that Adding given names, or their abbreviations, merely for disambiguation purposes (if that format of the name is not commonly used to refer to the person) is not advised (italics from the policy page), and "Frank O'Connor (actor)" already directed to a different actor named Frank O'Connor. As "Charles Francis O'Connor" is not the common name for this person, after learning about the policy I wanted to bring the page in line with it. I explained the reasons on a talk thread for the other actor O'Connor, moved said O'Connor article to Frank O'Connor (director) (as he was also a director, and Charles Francis wasn't), and replaced relevant wikilinks with "Frank O'Connor (director)" so as to avoid any incorrect piping. Now all that remains is to move Charles Francis O'Connor to Frank O'Connor (actor).&#32;Hydrangeans (she/her &#124; talk &#124; edits) 00:02, 20 February 2024 (UTC) This is a contested technical request (permalink). EdJohnston (talk) 03:26, 22 February 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. asilvering (talk) 16:22, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
 * I totally get your logic, but moving to a partially-disambiguated title is almost never an uncontroversial move, and Frank O'Connor (director) is also an actor. This should be moved to Frank O'Connor (actor, born 1897), with Frank O'Connor (actor) going to the disambiguation page. * Pppery * it has begun...  16:44, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
 * I see what you mean about the director O'Connor also being an actor. However, between the two, I'm not sure the 1888-born O'Connor's 'actor-ness' has any more primacy than that of the 1897-born (which is what further disambiguating the 1897-born's but not the 1888-born's would seem to imply). I have struggled to find scholarly secondary sources about the 1888-born actor (others are free to attempt another a GoogleScholar search and see what comes up that isn't about the 1897-born O'Connor or about the Irish author); the American Film Institute catalog pages seem to be most of what there is (and looking at some of those pages, I'm not sure they even actually verify some of the information, like his purported birth date). And on more general Internet search engines like Google, it seems very possible Wikipedia has been inadvertently signal-boosting the 1888-born out of proportion to coverage in secondary sources. Contrast that with the 1897-born's coverage in several academic secondary sources (as seen on the existing article).
 * I think Charles Francis O'Connor should be moved to Frank O'Connor (actor) with a hatnote there pointing people to the 1888-born's page if there's confusion. And the 1888-born could be moved to Frank O'Connor (actor and director) or Frank O'Connor (actor, born 1888). Hydrangeans (she/her &#124; talk &#124; edits) 16:00, 21 February 2024 (UTC)
 * I am not proposing disambiguating the 1897-born's but not the 1888-born. I'm proposing disambiguating both. Frank O'Connor (director) is fine as it is because there are no other notable people named "Frank O'Connor" who are directors. "Frank O'Connor (actor)" isn't fine for either person because there are two people it could refer to and so it should go to the disambiguation page. The fact that the article was titled with (actor) for eight years is sufficient evidence that his actor-ness is not so insignificant it can be ignored. And the notability of the person is not a factor - unless his article gets deleted or redirected it counts just as much in my view. The threshold for partial disambiguation to be justified is widely agreed to be considerably higher than for an ordinary primary topic. Personally I'm against it in almost all cases.  Anyway, this is clearly not an uncontroversial rename. You are welcome to click the "discuss" link above to take it to a full discussion.  * Pppery * it has begun...  20:12, 21 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Note: WikiProject Ohio has been notified of this discussion. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 09:20, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
 * Support Frank O'Connor (actor, born 1897). We should always try to be as unambiguous as possible. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:44, 22 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Comment: Frank O'Connor (director) (formerly "(actor)") has been nominated for deletion which has the potential to alter the need for disambiguation. Hydrangeans (she/her &#124; talk &#124; edits) 06:27, 23 February 2024 (UTC) (as I have withdrawn that deletion nomination, the comment is not relevant.) Hydrangeans (she/her &#124; talk &#124; edits) 00:01, 24 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Hopefully the page (that you took to Afd one day after the present requested move was contested...) will be kept, so I wouldn't count on it, personally. - My, oh my! (Mushy Yank)  22:01, 23 February 2024 (UTC)
 * In any case, after seeing another comment at the deletion discussion, I withdrew the deletion nomination. Hydrangeans (she/her &#124; talk &#124; edits) 00:00, 24 February 2024 (UTC)
 * I saw that, thank you very much. - My, oh my! (Mushy Yank)  00:04, 24 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Comment: With Frank O'Connor (director) being kept, moving this page to Frank O'Connor (actor) remains appropriate, as per WP:PDAB, a PDAB itself can have a primary topic. The deletion discussion acknowledged that it's difficult to parse the information available about the director/actor O'Connor. Over the past few days, I've found no coverage of significance for the 1888-born O'Connor comparable to that of the 1897-born O'Connor. The 1897-born O'Connor receives five thousand page views in a month. The article about the 1897-born being newer does not necessarily mean the topic was less primary, as an existing article is not automatically the primary topic. A hatnote directing readers from the 1897-born O'Connor to the 1888-born O'Connor would be a suitable means of disambiguation. Hydrangeans (she/her &#124; talk &#124; edits) 18:26, 24 February 2024 (UTC)
 * No, it does not remain appropriate. The page view ratio here is |Frank_O%27Connor_(director)|Charles_Francis_O%27Connor about 10:1. The entry at WP:PDABLIST with the lowest page view ratio is over six times higher. * Pppery * it has begun... 05:24, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
 * The entry at WP:PDABLIST#(actor) or (actress) with the lowest page view ratio is over six times higher. This is not true, though the error is understandable, as it was not explicitly listed in the entry. The lowest page view ratio is not between the Sunils but between Bhavana (actress) and Bhavana (Kannada actress). Based on average daily page views, the |Bhavana_(actress) ratio is about 10:1, the same as what you describe existing between the Frank O'Connors (|Frank_O%27Connor_(director)|Charles_Francis_O%27Connor doing the math a second time, 1463 to 1244 seems to come out closer to 11:1, rounding down). The 1897-born Frank O'Connor constitutes a primary PDAB for Frank O'Connor (actor). Hydrangeans (she/her &#124; talk &#124; edits) 05:43, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
 * That entry is currently being discussed at RM, and I already commented in favor of disambiguating it fully, so you can't really use it to convince me. I think it's clear at this point that neither of us will convince each other of their position. * Pppery * it has begun... 05:47, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
 * By way of information, the outcome of that discussion (permanent link) was that Bhavana (actress) was not moved to a different disambiguation and remains the primary topic of the PDAB. Hydrangeans (she/her &#124; talk &#124; edits) 21:47, 9 March 2024 (UTC)