Talk:Franklin & Marshall College/Archive 1

Comments
I thought that the famous upset of the University of Pennsylvania's football team occurred in 1914, not 1915. Sciencegeekb6b3 20:34, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Does Beta Epsilon Nu actually exist? Much less F&M's "chapter".."Beta Epsilon Nu, Taz Chapter (est. 2005)"--Viannah 05:48, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

I think that the administration has the right to hold fraternities and sororities to more stringent standards than other organizations. Other organizations don't chiefly focus on constant partying... let's be serious here. Lequis 01:11, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Lequis, your opinions are just that, opinions. Opinions are not facts and have no place on wikipedia. Campus politics belong on campus, not in an encyclopedia. Snoop0x7b 18:52, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Franklin & Marshall's fraternity system is a proven point of contention between F&M and the community. Irrefutably, people in Lancaster have a negative view of fraternities because of public drunkenness, vandalism, loud parties, etc.-- and F&M students come to F&M viewing Lancaster as some pathetic farm town. It's an opinion for me to say what I think of both sides of the argument, but it's fact to present these opposing viewpoints. Lequis 15:24, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Changed "Rural" to "Urban"
F&M campus is certainly not 'rural' by any stretch of the word. I will note, there seem to be people who want to believe "Lancaster, Pa" simply refers to a bucolic "Garden Spot" of rural Amish farmland.

That place DOES exist, and I love it dearly, but I also love the "urbaness" of Lancaster City, and defend its' place in the heart and minds of Lancastrians, and, hopefully, Fummers. Hillsboro 23:09, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

What is up with people editing out the info on Chi Phi? For some reason people keep deleting the info about the frat being the oldest continuously open chapter in the country. I know the "skull" guy aparently have some sort of issue with this-- but there house is actually the OLD Chi Phi house so perhaps they are confused about the actual history here.

I agree...Wiki is not the place for fraternities to be arguing their history. I have reinstated the passage. GT — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.85.7.106 (talk) 04:32, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

Separate into two pages
This article is unusual with respect to most wikipedia college articles in that it seems to focus primarily on history. I think that it may be worthwhile to separate the page into two pages--one about the history of the college and another about the college as it is. I think this page is lacking in relevant information about the college as it is now, but I'm reluctant to add new material because the article is, in my opinion, already a bit too long. Thoughts? Cazort 16:36, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

What's wrong with it being long?

I agree that this page reads to much like a detailed history of the school rather than a representation of what classes, facilities, professors, clubs and organizations the school currentl offers. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Itbuckner (talk • contribs) 08:37, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

Greek System
I think an issue with its length is due to the paragraph about the different Chi Phi houses. It's completely irrelevant to the page, seeing as there are other fraternities and sororities on campus. It wasn't even truly the first founded at Franklin and Marshall, the way it's stated is a bit deceptive: Phi Kappa Sigma was founded before Chi Phi but did not remain active. Phi Tau, Kappa Sigma, Phi Kappa Sigma, and Chi Phi all have houses and moved around during the history of the college, but the history of the others is wholly absent. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.106.95.213 (talk) 02:52, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Hi, I just edited out the paragraphs about Chi Phi and Sigma Sigma Sigma. I agree that they were completely unnecessary for an entry on Franklin & Marshall College. I also provided references for the Fraternity founding dates that seemed relevant. I also agree that the idea that Chi Phi is the longest running Fraternity at F&M is actually just one of the myths the Greek houses enjoy making up in competition with one another. As is the idea that Phi Kappa Sigma's current residence at 415 West James was ever owned by Chi Phi (According to the student newspaper, it was previously a Doctor's residence.) It's probably best specific histories of any of the Fraternities are left off this page.Skielt (talk) 19:52, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

I just edited out the last paragraph that was recently added about Phi Psi's new house. It really has no place in this article.173.63.144.240 (talk) 04:46, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

I think this information is relevant as no other fraternity is on campus and it has been a point of contention between the college and the frat for over a century. Also, the house was used as an infirmary which is important to the campus history. The information about TriSig is important because it marks the first founding of a sorority at the college. I have returned it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.85.7.106 (talk) 04:34, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

The lengthy paragraphs about Chi Phi are extremely unnecessary as no other fraternities are mentioned. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.249.88.33 (talk) 00:51, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

Relationship with the clothing brand?
Maybe someone can add information explaining the relationship between the college and the clothing brand?

http://www.franklinandmarshall.com/

Mjs 23:46, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Just added the section, based on a college press release. Included notes with links to merchandise. {TG} —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.174.206.219 (talk) 06:39, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Fandmlogo.PNG
Image:Fandmlogo.PNG is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 07:56, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

SAT scores as evidence?!
So if the entire student body with a 1311 SAT avg replaced the HACC student body, that would mean HACC was suddenly transformed into a top national liberal arts college?! That is where the logic of that statement leads to. At best a high SAT score indicates a well-prepared student body, that excels at taking standardized tests! Not saying F&M ISN'T a demanding, top college, but SAT scores are an INPUT, not a "factor of production" or output metric! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.4.24.34 (talk) 22:33, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

Greek has an axe to grind
I just undid a dozen edits from an anonymous editor who inserted several derogatory comments about college administrators, and replaced the F&M logo in the info box (or attempted to) with an image called "Free Delta". I'm sympathetic to Greeks, but this kind of stuff can easily be construed as vandalism and is inappropriate for Wikipedia. The writer noted the following:
 * Recent tensions between the school and the Greek community have occurred with the arrival of Stuart Umberger, former greek administrator from Lafayette College, and new Dean of the College Margeret Hazlett, who previously served as senior associate dean of student affairs at Bowdoin College (which hasn't had Greek Life since the 1990's). These tensions have mostly arisen out of Stuart and Hazlett's attempts to ban fun. Despite these new restrictions against fun and fewer fraternity parties the school has had more alcohol related hospitalizations over the 2013-2014 academic year than any other in recent memory. Thier arrival also ended the school's amnesty policy, which protected intoxicated students who called EMS to save their classmates.

Hmm. "Attempts to ban fun." Sounds like a meanie. Further edits said that Umberger was "disgraced" in his former position, but that sentence was deleted in a further anonymous edit. So I don't know what all this means, but without serious citation, it's heresay about a living person, and violates, oh, a dozen rules. Should the anonymous user wish to discuss it here, please do. And bring yer citations to the table, eh? Better yet, as this appears to be an ongoing situation, you might consider bringing it to the college newspaper or student advocacy personnel. Jax MN (talk) 23:28, 17 April 2014 (UTC)


 * As a recent alumni who visits campus frequently, I know for a fact that there is growing tension between the new administration and not only Greek life. The change in the F&M amnesty policy is very telling. The old policy allowed students to report when a fellow student was intoxicated and needed medical attention without, the intoxicated student or the person who reported the matter, to be disciplined. Under new rules, discipline could be given to the student who reported the incident. Recent changes like this one reflects the schools recent attempt to rid themselves of any possible liability. Greek life is a prime example of this. Many students and alumni have attempted to reach out to the administration but have gotten no reply or action. School communication used to be open, however that is no longer the case. That is why you are seeing vandalism, as it is a public way for students to promote their concerns. Sites like greekrank.com and the app "yik yak' have also been popular. Also look for hashtag on twitter #whyitdoesntwork - mocking Poreterfield's trademarked #whyitworks. Unsigned comment by anonymous User 173.220.31.74
 * Dear User 173.220.31.74: I just checked one of the comments you posted, and a reference from 108.29.57.42. You wrote in the main article that, "Prior to the public announcement President Porterfield sent an email to apologize for his administration's lack of competence", and to this was added a reference at: http://www.fandm.edu/president/messages-from-the-president#whannouncement.  I didn't see anything close to a public admission of "lack of competence."  Your edits are likely to stand scrutiny if they are less biased, and if they have good supporting citations.  Not like this.  Jax MN (talk) 03:19, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

Notable alumni
Might look better bulleted but as for the citation needed for each, most of them have references on each of their entries that support their degrees from Franklin & Marshall College.--MattyMetalFan (talk) 15:10, 4 January 2017 (UTC)

Edit-warring to add unsourced "In popular culture" section
Truthserum001 has begun an edit war to add a new "In popular culture section" that has no sources and only trivial information. The entire section:


 * Franklin & Marshall College plays an important role in the 2019 mystery/suspense novel "Beneath the Lights", by Jim Boyer. The story is set in 1978, when a freshman at the college pursues the truth about the murder of a young girl thirteen years earlier.

This information adds nothing to a reader's understanding of this college. Nor is there is any evidence that this information is considered important by others. ElKevbo (talk) 14:56, 25 November 2020 (UTC)


 * "In Popular Culture" is a common subheading included in many Wikipedia articles. While it may not be considered important by some users, it is appreciated by many others and adds an understanding as to how institutions are viewed in the public eye. Being a local resident of Lancaster, PA where F&M College is located, I was pleased to see how positively the college was reflected in the work noted and felt it would be of interest to those familiar with the school. Truthserum001 10:59, 25 November 2020


 * First, you shouldn't edit war. Second, if it's important enough to include in an encyclopedia article then surely you can provide reliable sources supporting this assertion. ElKevbo (talk) 19:53, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Agreed. I know it's been a few years since this issue came up but I tried to verify @Truthserum001's claims, couldn't do it. I'd love to add this to the article but I simply can't cite any source claiming this. R. J. Dockery (talk) 19:45, 18 May 2023 (UTC)

Prep school was probably not the last in America to be directly affiliated with a college
For example, California's Menlo School was part of Menlo College until 1994: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menlo_School Goodell (talk) 19:28, 15 November 2017 (UTC)