Talk:Franz Bardon

Hermetics
Bardonian hermetics are definately different from HoGD styles. Whereas Bardon mentions the qualities of Magnetic and Electric, GD teachings are generally found not to address them. Many GD schools (and those founded by Golden Dawn members) are very ceremonial. In Bardon's systems, there is generally very little ritual (except in his evocations and so forth). His approach could, I guess, be called more spiritually alchemical. JN322 17:25, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

About Bardon's death
The source for Bardon's cause of death (pancreatitis) is from his son Lumir, per reference [2]. But the author of that page (Paul Allen) makes it clear that it is his *speculation* that the condition was caused by Bardon eating a dish containing bacon; NOT that this is established in any way. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 198.232.129.254 (talk) 16:56, 12 March 2007 (UTC).


 * while in the custody of police.


 * Are we to infer from this, that he suffered a fatal attack of "accidentally stabbing himself in the back and falling downstairs repeatedly"? Nuttyskin (talk) 18:55, 24 June 2018 (UTC)

"Forward"
First of all, subjective statements like "to our great loss" do not belong in supposedly impartial, encyclopedic contents.

Secondly, for some strange reason the "References" section cannot be edited (it appears as empty). Could somebody who can edit it, please, correct the term "forward" which obviously refers to a FOREWORD?

-- Changed spelling of 'forward' to 'foreword' in 3rd reference. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.112.250.245 (talk) 21:03, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Clean-up and objectivity-transfusion needed
The article has far too much puffery, handwaving and weasel words in it. To wit, under the section "The Key to the True Kabbalah" it states "...Bardon demonstrates that mysticism of letters and numbers – the 'true Kabbalah' – is a universal teaching of great antiquity and depth. Throughout the ages, adepts of every time and place have achieved the highest levels of magical attainment through the understanding of sound, color, number and vibration as embodied in the Kabbalah." That all sounds mighty impressive, but it's entirely lacking in evidence. There's not a primary source in the world (and none are offered for this claim) that could substantiate such claims. I'd like for a sympathetic editor to give cleaning this up try before I have to come in with the blunt instruments and cut out the "woo". Bricology (talk) 23:45, 13 February 2012 (UTC)


 * I agree. Slarty4 (talk) 02:34, 14 May 2021 (UTC)


 * I agree and found more evidence of unsupported claims -- see below. 75.101.104.17 (talk) 03:46, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

Source citations needed
Currently the Franz Bardon article contains two highly problematic sentences:

1) "During World War II Bardon was held in a concentration camp for refusing to participate in Nazi mysticism." What does that mean? Why was he sngled out to participate in "Nazi mysticism" and why did his "refusal" lead to being placed in a concentration camp?

2) "Bardon was rescued by Soviet soldiers who raided the camp. " Raided. Not "liberated." They "raided the camp to free him? Really?

In addition, the claim lacks support.

3) Franz Bardon is not listed at the Holocaust Survivors and Victims Database. One person with the surname Bardon but no first name is listed, and one person named Johann Bardon is listed. Both were arrested in Prague. More research on the unnamed Bardon is imperative for support of the claim. The list is here:

https://www.ushmm.org/online/hsv/person_advance_search.php?NameSearch__SourceSrchGrp=&NameSearch__ParentSourceId=&NameSearch__sort=name_primary_sort&NameSearch__lname=&NameSearch__lname_accuracy=&NameSearch__fname=&NameSearch__fname_accuracy=&NameSearch__lname_maiden=&NameSearch__lname_maiden_accuracy=&NameSearch__Query=&NameSearch__SourceId=45368&source_list=&NameSearch__year_birth=&NameSearch__year_birth_accuracy=&NameSearch__year_death=&NameSearch__year_death_accuracy=&NameSearch__year=&NameSearch__year_accuracy=&NameSearch__place=&NameSearch__place_accuracy=&NameSearch__place_IsGeoExpand_cb_0=&NameSearch__place_birth=&NameSearch__place_birth_accuracy=&NameSearch__place_birth_IsGeoExpand_cb_0=&NameSearch__place_prewar=&NameSearch__place_prewar_accuracy=&NameSearch__place_prewar_IsGeoExpand_cb_0=&NameSearch__place_wartime=&NameSearch__place_wartime_accuracy=&NameSearch__place_wartime_IsGeoExpand_cb_0=&NameSearch__place_death=&NameSearch__place_death_accuracy=&NameSearch__place_death_IsGeoExpand_cb_0=&NameSearch__meta_333=&NameSearch__meta_259=&MaxPageDocs=10&start_doc=131

This sounds like self-aggrandizing fiction. Sources are a must. 75.101.104.17 (talk) 03:19, 15 August 2021 (UTC)


 * Here's another wacky claim with CONFLICTING DATA:


 * Bardon, Franz (1909-1958) | Encyclopedia.com
 * "It has been alleged that Bardon was a member of the Fraternity of Saturn in Germany prior to its being disbanded by the Nazis in the mid-1930s. However, no proof of that association has been produced. In 1941 he was arrested by the Nazis and after refusing to assist Hitler magically, was imprisoned in a concentration camp and tortured. He escaped his execution when the Allies bombed the camp where he was confined."


 * So. "Refusing to participate in Nazi mysticism" (Wikipedia) or "refusing to assist Hitler magically" (Encyclopedia dot com)?


 * So. "Soviet soldiers ...raided the camp" (Wikipedia) or "The Allies bombed the camp" (Encyclopedia dot com)?


 * Which is it, and where are the sources for EITHER set of claims? This is beginning to feel way wrong to me. Discussion invited. 75.101.104.17 (talk) 03:42, 15 August 2021 (UTC)


 * And, from the article: "the characters embodying Bardon's spirit [were], among others: Hermes Trismegistos, Nostradamus, Lao Tse, Apollonius of Tyana, Robert Fludd, and Count Saint Germain. In his previous physical life he was a wise man (Mahatma) from the mountains named Mahum Ta-Tah, spelled like Ha-Khu-Ma-Na-Ta-Tah."


 * Well, at least the vandal had some fun. And, so, as the sun sinks slowly in the west, with a joyful "Hakuna Matata," i bid you and Franz Bardon a fond farewell. 75.101.104.17 (talk) 04:11, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

He was a charlatan
Whoever wrote this wiki is biased. Bardon was a charlatan and he is over hyped. Someone needs to add a controversy section and discuss the fact that he is one of a trillion to self proclaim as Hermes Trismegistus, that his work is unverifiable and grandiose, etc... There is so much. I don't have time to do it myself or I would. Whoever wrote this was one of Bardon's many fanboys, and while the wiki is informative the information is clearly one sided and over hypes Bardon's influence on Hermeticism (which is practically non-existent.) 174.255.7.63 (talk) 23:45, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

Freemasonry
In the section "Frabato the Magician", the discussion of Freemasonry includes no citations whatsoever, but makes the claim that, "The moral basis of Freemasonry is that the balance of good and bad actions is achieved if the mason compensates for his bad actions with good actions or 'vice versa'." In Freemasonry in the US, there is no such "moral basis" as this (two rights fix a wrong?). Though I am not personally familiar with Masonry in other countries outside the UK, I would be astounded to hear of such a concept as this within any Masonic tenets. All that can be done here is say that the author of the article should cite where this claim is stated--from actual Masonic resources, not from an exposé or alternative source; much of Masonic texts are (unfortunately or fortunately) accessible via the internet. Barring citation, I would recommend this "moral basis" claim--perhaps that whole paragraph--be removed. AGraveHistory (talk) 00:25, 28 February 2024 (UTC)