Talk:Fred St-Gelais

No violation of copyright
No violation of Copyright is occuring in the Biography section of this article, because the author (myself, Fred St-Gelais) also wrote the article here: http://web.mac.com/fredstgelais/iWeb/Fred%20St-Gelais/Bio.html (added at 18:54, 22 August 2009 by Wannabex) Hananekosan (talk) 19:22, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Discussion about blanked page
@Wannabex: I hope you haven't blanked the page because you intend to delete it. Though it's an autobiography, I think it has a good change of passing the neutral point of view checks. It needs some work to be wikified, but all new articles do. Hananekosan (talk) 19:22, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

@Wannabex: Please don't use blanking the page as a means to delete tags other wikipedians have attached to your article. It's no big deal this time, and your new text required new tags anyhow, but people will not appreciate having their tags "addressed" in this manner. :) What I technically should have done is back out your changes so that the article was once again in the state it was before you used this method to delete the tags. (Using your method to delete tags is a no-no.) Also, your article currently links to quite a few wiki articles that don't exist, and one that was deleted because it didn't meed the notoriety requirements. If you are planning to create or recreate these articles, please make sure the subjects meet the notoriety requirements. Thank you! Some ideas for categories are musicians; people born in the year you were born; people from Quebec, etc. You will probably also want to add a biography infobox at some point as well. Cheers.Hananekosan (talk) 19:36, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Further discussion about blanked page/tags
Well, I was scared to see it deleted, so I figured I'd replace it with something VERY basic (and neutral). All those messages that appeared on top were very scary, and I really had no idea what to remove or change to make it more neutral. I didn't find anything that wasn't factual or that expressed an opinion in it. Also, I'm not a programmer and had no idea how to "improve the layout", or "wikify" it, or change the links so they passed the wiki standards. People keep on asking why I don't show up on wikipedia after all thoses platinum and gold records on my walls. After much asking around, turns out all my producer friends started the wikipedia articles on themselves, so I thought it was the way to go. I guess I'll just leave the very basic one and wait to see if someone cares to make it better (and more neutral).Wannabex (talk) 19:45, 22 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I believe the changes I made got the article past the initial issues. For future reference, message/warning boxes contain information that points you toward correcting the issues, and further information is in the welcome information I placed on your user talk page. Hananekosan (talk) 00:19, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

Seriously, as I said, I went back and made the article really basic and free from ANY opinion, and now it has even more issues! What should I do? This is really complicated and confusing! Can I just undo the whole thing? Meaning delete it altogether and wait for someone (perhaps a wikipedia pro) to start an article in the future?Wannabex (talk) 19:51, 22 August 2009 (UTC)


 * @Wannabex. Hi again, no worries. None of the tags in the article are personal, they're just a method the wikipedia community uses to keep track of things to do, to notify article authors of things, and so forth, all with the end goal of keeping wikipedia up to a certain level of quality and, above all, consistency. It takes some time to become familiar with the way things work around here and I admire you for jumping right in and creating an article. There are a group of wikipedians who partol the new articles to for issues, not to be punitive (though I know it must feel that way), but to make everyone aware of issues as soon as possible since it's usually easier to fix issues when the article is still in the beginning stange, rather than when some fundamental problem has been built upon for many interations. Based on what I saw of the article in progress, you do meet the notoriety requirements. It's a little unusual for someone to start an article about himself but it's not forbidden. We just have to be extra careful to maintain a neutral point of view, which should be easy to do if we stick to the facts about you and your published works/awards. I can help you with this and with developing the article in general. The reason it was tagged as a potential conflict of interest is because you are the author and the subject. It's standard practice to mark these things, and nothing personal. This page is supposed to be where we discuss the article, so I'd like to transition the rest of the conversation about wikipedia in general to your user talk page, if you don't mind. And we can continue to talk about the article development here.Hananekosan (talk) 21:19, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

IP edits
@96.20.114.206: Fred/Wannabex, is this you making edits via IP address instead of user name? That's permitted, I'm just trying to sort out who I'm speaking with. :) If this is another editor, you might want to refer to the discussion on Wannabex's talk page. Thanks for categorizing the article! Hananekosan (talk) 21:36, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Under construction
I added the under construction tag to make it unlikely the page will be deleted while we're working on bringing it up to standards/"wiki"fying it. Hananekosan (talk) 22:08, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

BLP
We should familiarize ourselves with the guidelines for biographies of living persons: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons as they directly pertain to an article such as this. Hananekosan (talk) 22:08, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

It's coming along but still needs improvement
We need to flesh out the rest of the information box if we can get information from neutral, reliable sources. For instance, Fred, I'm sure you could point us to an article that says your year of birth on it so that we know if you were born in 1976 and just turned 33 or were born in 1975 and will be turning 24 soon. That's if you don't just want to give us your DOB or publish it on your website. For the information box, you can also tell us there you were born, or point us to a verifiable site that contains that information. If you have a nickname and you want it included in the infobox, it can be. Please list the labels you are affiliated with.

I've found quite a few sources we can cite, but need you to keep help looking as well. I'll add what I can tomorrow but feel free to add yours at any time. You might want to read through a tutorial and some existing good articles to see how references work. You really need to markup the pertinent inline text and give the proper format for the link, and the References list will build at the end of the article. I can walk you through it if need be. I hope this makes sense. I think this will shape up to be a very good article when all is said and done. Hananekosan (talk) 09:30, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Considering presenting tracks/albums/TVs in a tabular format
Sort of like the discography you've probably seen elsewhere. Thoughts on that? Hananekosan (talk) 09:30, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

I'm overwhelmed! I would need tons of time to learn how to do all this! I don't know the first thing about how to do all that! I've got a lot of older articles, pictures and other stuff to prove everything I wrote is true and from a neutral point of view, but It's not necessarily on the web! Even if I find it, I don't know how to make the info point to the source. I'm in the process of updating my all music guide info, but it take weeks for the updates to sho (they have to go through the actual CD booklets). I want the article to be legit! Thanks again for your help. I will do my best to make it better with the time I have. I had purposedly deleted stuff from my biography (stuff hard to find reliable sources from) but you put it back!Wannabex (talk) 15:28, 23 August 2009 (UTC)


 * You're welcome. I'm happy to do what I can to keep what will one day be a great article from getting deleted. I said in the comments that I had restored some of the content that you had previously deleted. I did think because I felt that it was good stuff to help make the case that you are a notable enough person to have a wikipedia page. If you want to delete anything, go ahead, that's your right as a wikipedian. If you want to discuss the things you would like delete first, that's fine too. Unfortunately, we do need citations that are available on the web (but those can be scans of things you have in hard copy, provided those scans don't violate and copyright laws and are hosted somewhere public on the internet. For this conversation, consider "public" any website where you don't need a password to view content.) As I mentioned before, I found a few more references last night, so will do what I can with those today. BTW, editing in Wikipedia is easier than you think and there are templates for just about anything you can imagine, so you can always copy a format from another page and plug in your values instead of what was said on the other page. Once the All Music Guide is complete, we can use that too. These articles are seldom written once and never touched again, it's an iterative process, so it's perfectly reasonable for you and other wikipedians to continuously edit it. Hananekosan (talk) 17:19, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

As I posted on the my talk page, I found tons of links to use as source, but I'm not sure how to do it. Should I just send them to you? I have no idea how to include them within the article...Wannabex (talk) 18:40, 23 August 2009 (UTC)


 * You can post the links to the sources you found here on this talk page or on your talk page, but please use the talkback link after my signature so I know you addressed something to me. Since this article is technically an autobiography, you should be very cautious about making edits to your own page or you could run the risk of the article being in violation of neutrality, etc. As I said previously, autobiographies are not forbidden, but it's unusual for someone to work on one and maintain neutrality. That said, I'd recommend that you post the links, along with some description of what you want to say in the article that the links substantiate, for discussion. I recommend that you read Autobiography for more information. Also, most people who use Wikipedia didn't know how to use it when they first signed up. If you review the materials I posted on your user talk page, you will learn a lot of things you can use when editing/writing other articles (since you should be careful about editing information about yourself) Hananekosan (talk) 00:19, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

Associated acts
At some point, editors should consider the associated acts listed in the info box. I'm new to Wikipedia so probably don't have the necessary frame of reference to know how to handle this, but it seems that this field is generally used for acts in which the association is particularly strong. (See Quincy Jones, for instance.) In this article nearly every act that is listed in the article's paragraphs is listed and I don't know that the redundancy is needed in all cases. Thanks. Hananekosan (talk) 00:19, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

External links modified
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External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20070626153446/http://www.cbc.ca:80/arts/story/2006/01/04/songwriters-gala.html to http://www.cbc.ca/arts/story/2006/01/04/songwriters-gala.html

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External links modified
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