Talk:Freddie Mercury/Archive 6

Bravo!
Usually, people are complaining about various aspects of the article in the Talk section...but I give high kudos to whoever found the excellent picture of Freddie for the beginning of this article. Freddie was superb and elegant in all he did in his career, but most pictures of him on the net (and Wikipedia as well) are grainy and of poor quality. Thank you SO much for finding a picture that is fitting for him, finally. It makes me smile to see it, as he deserves no less. 65.248.164.99 (talk) 17:32, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Death
Why did the death section get "halved?" —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gregsynth (talk • contribs) 00:29, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

Was he cremated at Kensal Green? I seem to remember him being cremated at Putney? 19:47, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

Extraction
Iranians and North Indians (and Greeks) are primary Caucasians. This can be easily inferred through multiple lines of genetic evidence. 'Primary Caucasian' means that Iranians and North Indians still have most in common (on a global scale) with the original population whom gave birth to the vast majority of, population-variant genes, that are found in modern day Europeans and Middle Easterners (neolithic farmers spread to the rest of the world from an area between turkey to north india at 10kybp). They are, obviously, not primary Caucasians because low admixture has allowed them to physically resemble the original Caucasoids (It is Europeans whom are phototypically more akin to the earlist Caucasoids. Although it is true, in recent history, the climate shift would'nt allow selection for lighter skin in certain parts of the world. This is most evident when you look at Southern Europe). Both of these populations have admixture higher than almost any European population (Although much of Iran (especially the north-eastern quadrant), actually has very little (relative to global populations) significant admixture). But, given the time elapsed since the neolithic dispersal, and given the fact that Europe's genetic signature is a product of a few genetic founders (whom have clearly lost a few male lineated haplogroups to say the least), and the data put forth by Cavalli-Sforza et al., it is clear that modern Europeans are not the same as the Caucasoids of early history (at 10kybp). Thus, the fact that many Iranians or North Indians have higher admixture than most Europeans, does not necessarily mean they are any less Caucasoid, altogether. It is quite centric, to ignore the obvious fact, that West Asia was the source of caucasoid genes. And technically, exo-migrants are no longer true Caucasoids, but rather descendents with newly evolved genetic identities. This is precisely why isolates such as Iranians, North Indians, and Greeks, do not pair hard with other populations on phylogenetic trees.

Ok. So at the lowest resolution, (broadest racial sense) we have: Levantines (or Neoliths) and their related descendents (Europeans, North Africans, Central Asians, Middle Easterenrs, Indo-Paki-Afghans). Congonisians and related Africans. And the East Asians.

It's over. The deludes can stop pushing the fantasy that Cro-magnum man was chasing reindeer through LGM Europe. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.197.253.38 (talk) 23:41, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

All I can say to the writer who seems so enlightened about race above is maybe he should actually read into what hes saying instead of following that Eugenecist Nazi BS, which is very quaint and irrelevant.86.138.248.126 (talk) 15:34, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

I think it's obvious 86.138.248.126, that 'Nazis' would not accept such a painful fact. Multiple lines of evidence (genetic, archeological, anthropological, linguistic, geological, and literal based) support this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.22.31.252 (talk) 02:04, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

Vandalism
Hi folks,

I've never done much on Wikipedia before, and I don't know too much about Freddie, but I did want to point out to you that the "Early Life and Playwright" section has been pretty seriously vandalized, and someone familiar with the original material may want to put it back together. . . —Preceding unsigned comment added by 146.165.142.102 (talk) 19:47, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Removed WP:COPYVIO
I have redacted my previous comment because it appears the text in question was copied from here. — confusionball (talk) 00:16, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Bisexuality
This section of the article is quite messy. It starts out trying to state that Freddie was bi, and then after two sentences only gives evidence as to how gay he was. In the past I've mostly heard that after breaking up with Mary (though they were obviously still very close friends until his death) he was explicitly gay from there on. The only things to back this up, however, are only the gossip of his past lovers. Any way to fix this?--Gocchin (talk) 15:42, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

I am not one who is good at such things personally, but someone who is needs to edit the section that declares him gay. I have read on several other sites that he never declared himself gay, but did declare himself bisexual, and had relationships with both sexes up until the last few years before his death, when he had a very close romantic relationship with a guy. Just because he was in a dedicated relationship with a male the last few years of his life does not make him "gay." He was attracted to both sexes, and pursued lovers in both sexes. The last few years of his life do not erase the rest of his life and his history.

If he had a long-term sexual relationship with a woman, shouldn't he be categorised as bi? Qzm (talk) 16:51, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

Well he certainly showed no sexual interest in women for the last two deacdes of his short life. He was a gay man, not bisexual. Many gay men have heterosexual pasts... with the emphasis on the past. Incidentally the claim currently in the article that he referred to himself as bisexual has a broken link, while the other doesn't support the claim at all. Vauxhall1964 (talk) 02:05, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

English?
It says he's an English musician at the top. In what universe is THAT true? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.128.82.245 (talk) 10:34, 26 May 2008 (UTC)  He may have been born in India or wherever, but Mercury was a British Citizen. Hence, he is British. I suppose it should be British-Indian, or Indian-British, but I don't know if that would be PC. NIN (talk) 16:06, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

The origin is usually added, when someone acquires another nationality; e.g.: British of Indian Parsi origins. An acquired nationality says less about a person's origins than... his originating country / ethnic group. Saying pure and simple he was "British" looks like appropriation to me, and can offend many as a manifestation of intellectual British colonialism. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.196.99.246 (talk) 08:25, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
 * We don't mention a person's ethnicity in the lead unless it is directly related to why they are notable. This is not the case with Mercury. He was a British citizen. faithless   (speak)  21:33, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

Iron Curtain
I'm adjusting the statement "In 1986, Queen were also the first to play behind the Iron Curtain, when they performed to a crowd of 80,000 in Budapest.[27]". While this might have been a first for them it certainly wasn't an absolute first: e.g. Iron Maiden played Poland, Yugoslavia, and Czechoslovakia two years earlier in 1984 Behind the Iron Curtain (Iron Maiden video)  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.191.183.85 (talk) 14:51, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Sexual orientation
It seems that what is said in the beginning of the article about how he kept his sexual orientation a secrete from the public contradicts what is later said claiming that he was openly gay. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.12.153.168 (talk) 15:42, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Origin of a quote
A certain quote response given by Freddie Mercury that is listed in his Wikipedia page is not referenced. The quote is "I am as gay as a daffodil, my dear." It came from a New Musical Express magazine interview in their issue released on March 12, 1974. Could someone please incorporate this into the article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.23.107.83 (talk) 10:39, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Bisexuality and asexuality
I have reverted the page to my revision mentioning his bisexuality and asexuality. These are important parts of his sexual identity that deserve mentioning in any article that describes that aspect of his person and life, especially if the notion of his homosexual activities are considered deserving of mention (as few would deny they are). I believe that my mentioning of his shift to a preference for male sexual contact is enough to satisfy those who prefer the moniker gay, but the fact that he had the relationship with a woman and later shifted to asexuality makes the term bisexual justified and later an asexual/chaste individual.24.239.162.198 (talk) 03:49, 1 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Mercury was never asexual, even if he were celibate for a while. Qzm (talk) 16:51, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

Criticism and controversy
The criticism and controversy section needs integrating into it's chronological position to avoid coat-racking. Does someone else want to or shall I? — Realist 2  ( Speak ) 04:04, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Photo
Doesn't anybody have a decent photograph of the man? It's not like he lived before the invention of the camera! —75.4.233.205 (talk) 00:04, 24 August 2008 (UTC) I totally agree! What is with being half naked????? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.18.201.174 (talk) 23:19, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Parents were Azerbaijani Zoroastrians
According to BBC Freddie Mercury was born in Zanzibar but his parents were Azerbaijani Zoroastrians. This is exacly how they noted it down, a worthy sentence in the article? Baku87 (talk) 14:34, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Where did they get this information from? This is the first time anyone has ever claimed Freddie was Azerbaijani, as far as I know.  ...  disco spinster   talk  17:01, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
 * OK, the more I think about this, the less I am convinced. Watch the documentary Freddie Mercury: A Kind of Magic — there is a discussion of his Indian heritage by those who know him.  I think that's more reliable than a one-off claim that has never been made before.  ...  disco spinster   talk  01:35, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I got it from the BCC, see here, its written exacly like I said. Baku87 (talk) 14:34, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I know you got it from the BBC, but where did they get it from? ...  disco spinster   talk  19:50, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Ethnicity, revisited
(This was originally a note I posted on User:156.34.142.110's talk page.)

I don't know if we should rely on the BBC website for sources about Freddie's ethnicity. They don't seem to be able to keep things straight. Compare this article where they claim he's proudly Iranian, to this one where they say he's Azerbaijani, and here they call him "Indian Parsi"....

I have watched the documentaries A Kind of Magic and Freddie Mercury: The Untold Story and neither of them implied he was anything but Indian Parsi. The latter, I believe, mentioned that the name Bulsara comes from the city of Bulsar in Gujarat.

Of course Parsis came from Iran but they migrated 1,000 years ago. They are a distinct ethnic group, having retained some Persian culture but also absorbed Indian tradition.

The best way to handle it, in my opinion, is to go on saying he's Indian Parsi heritage. That seems to have the most support from external sources, including the ones in the documentaries, who happen to be his family and closest associates. Thoughts? ... disco spinster   talk  01:56, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree with your your take on the content. The refs support that he is Indian Parsi. The Real Libs-speak it 02:00, 2 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Yep. Discospinster's take is fine. Anyone taking bets that we shall now be accused of being anti-something-or-the-other? -- Fullstop (talk) 14:02, 2 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Adding an additional source on Freddie as a Parsi: He's got an entire chapter and an interview with his mother in Sooni Taraporevala's book on Parsis. Emily100 (talk) 06:37, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

New photo
I uploaded a good picture of Freddie! I'm sure it's the best we had!--Greg D. Barnes (talk) 19:47, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Nice picture but it's a copyright violation and I delted it. There are free pictures availabe and they should be used instead. Thanks. CambridgeBayWeather Have a gorilla 21:58, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
 * No album covers allowed in the infobox either. Only free-use images. Album covers are only fair-use in the article about the album the cover is sourced from. The Real Libs-speak politely 22:36, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

Sorry about that.--Greg D. Barnes (talk) 23:00, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

OK, I found a Public Domain picture in Queen Commons. It represents Freddie well. If this photo is rejected, then I'll just stop uploading pictures. LOL.

I think it's OK though.--Greg D. Barnes (talk) 23:07, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

Freddie picture
Is something like this what everyone is looking for? It even has the name of the person who took the picture, and the date. I don't know if it's the type of thing you're looking for, so please say so if it is! Thanks and have a great day! http://www.flickr.com/photos/clender/257193818/ CarpetCrawler (talk) 03:47, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
 * A picture like that would be great, but we can't use that specific picture. faithless   (speak)  00:14, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Nationality and citizenship
Even though he was born in Zanzibar and has Indian ethnically links, did he ever become a British Citizen? I thought he did, but I can not find this information in the article. If he did become a British citizen, this information should be included in the article. My apologies if it already is. Ijanderson (talk) 21:37, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I think he was born a British subject, prior to Indian independence. I don't know all the UK immigration/nationality law, but his UK citizenship may have already been covered, or may have been part of the process when he immigrated as a minor with his family. Emily100 (talk) 06:52, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

Let's use a decent photo
Let's please agree to use a decent photo in the infobox. From what I can see, there are two free photos available. Let's use the one of higher quality (i.e., the modern photo of the statue). 146.186.39.84 (talk) 02:20, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Muslim (or former Muslim)
I think mercury was a muslim or a former one... his birth name ( Farrokh Bulsara ) which means in Arabic (the differnts between something)?? .. so i think it should be mention?????????/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.231.248.250 (talk) 09:12, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Mercury was a Zoroastrian, though not a practicing one. faithless   (speak)  09:19, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Zoroastrian??? if he was a Zoroastrian?? why he used to say an islam & arabic things on his songs?? the Zoroastrian religion have no relation with islam?? ..when he said "Allah we'll pray for you" and Bismillah ... I think that he WAS a muslim??


 * He wasn't. By birth, he was a Parsi of Indian origin. Shovon (talk) 12:57, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

then how you explain his knowledge about islamic things???.. C'mon you have to Better than that!!!!!! let just we all agree that he was from a muslim descent. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.231.248.124 (talk) 13:29, 19 September 2008 (UTC)


 * 1) A mention of common Islamic terms doesn't qualify as "knowledge of Islamic things". Just as the use of Zoroastrian terms doesn't qualify their authors as Zoroastrians (example: 1, 2, 3).
 * 2) Even if it did, it still would not establish a person's religion; many scholars of Islam are in fact non-Muslims, just as most scholars of Zoroastrianism are in fact non-Zoroastrians.
 * 3) Neither "Farrokh" nor "Bulsara" are Arabic.
 * 4) This article cannot say he was "from a muslim descent" because there are no reliable sources who say so.
 * -- Fullstop (talk) 21:28, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

A mention of common Islamic terms doesn't qualify as "knowledge of Islamic things". Just as the use of Zoroastrian terms doesn't qualify their authors as Zoroastrians (example: 1, 2, 3).

I agree, but he mention things which people in the 1970s didn't know Islam like "Bissmillah" (which means, "in the name of Allah" in Islam), and he made a song called "Mustapha", which is the name of the Islamic prophet, Mohammed. He also dedicates some of his songs to the religion of Islam. as you know Islam get more attention as of September attacks

Even if it did, it still would not establish a person's religion; many scholars of Islam are in fact non-Muslims, just as most scholars of Zoroastrianism are in fact non-Zoroastrians. I agree, but why he use the islamic phrases in his songs?? if the man born as Zoroastrianism ?? why he didn't make Zoroastrians phrases in his songs?? If he was not from a muslim descent, I'm sure that he used the internet at that time to know about Islam!!!!!! Neither "Farrokh" nor "Bulsara" are Arabic. I agree that Bulsara is not an arabic last-name, but please Farrokh is an muslim name. My cousin name is Farrokh, and belive me he is not Zoroastrian?? This article cannot say he was "from a muslim descent" because there are no reliable sources who say so. Thats 100% true!!! 62.231.248.122 (talk) 14:26, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Well, Freddie Mercury grew up in both Zanzibar and India, both countries with heavy Muslim populations and influence, so he most likely picked up a knowledge of those things from those lands. And "Farrokh" is a Persian name. Parsis are Zoroastrians who originated in Persia, and Zoroastrianism is a Persian religion so they use Persian first names like Shapur (or Shapurji), Ardeshir, Cyrus, Darius, Farrokh, Rustom (or Rustomjee), Sohrab (or Sohrabji), etc. It's most likely your cousin has a Persian first name and could be either a.) Persian Muslim or Persian-speaking Muslim (Afghan or Tajik) or b.) from a culture like Indian Muslim culture or Pakistani culture, where Persian first names for Muslim children are popular.

Yeah. I think your right... he is a Zoroastrian!! but ..... nothing!62.61.164.122 (talk) 15:14, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

He was persian  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Edmdood (talk • contribs) 18:31, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Can you be a gay muslim? I thought Islam hated gays with a passion, even going so far as to execute them in many Muslim countries. 59.38.32.9 (talk) 14:40, 10 January 2009 (UTC)


 * I presume so (though other Muslims may not like it), but that has nothing to do with the subject of the article (see the preceding comments re: Zoroastrianism). Cheers,  This flag once was red propagandadeeds 14:48, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Good lord, it's not that difficult to understand. You can't label someone's religious beliefs based on a the language they speak. It isn't even documented that he knew any other languages besides English. Read about the song Jazz (Queen album) and see if you really think there is a hidden Muslim message there. Many of the other words were were nonsense words that he made up. And so what if he knew a few Arab words? Does that make Arab-speaking Christians in Egypt Muslim? It goes the other way too. Iran is 99% Muslim, yet hardly any speak Arabic and is not even an officially recognized language... Most Zoroastrians live around Islamic communities. He grew up in Zanzibar, which is 99% Sunni Muslim. It's not surprising that Islam was a big part of his cultural background. Does that make him Muslim? He moved around a lot. He lived around a lot of Muslims. He probably picked up plenty of Muslim influence and Arab words from his youth in Zanzibar and India. ... Calling his Muslim is just stupid. --67.188.111.99 (talk) 22:11, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Featured article
This is starting to look like a featured article: what's missing? Mac Davis (talk) 14:26, 4 October 2008 (UTC)


 * This article is missing good sources. Of the eight biographies and one autobiography listed in the sources, only two (Bret, Sky) are actually referred to. The other eight that are listed (Boyce, Clark, Evans/Minns, Gunn/Jenkins, Hutton/Waspshott, Jackson, Mercury/Brooks/Lupton) are not referenced (any more?). Only 7 of 65 refs are to the two bios (6 Bret, 1 Sky).
 * Of the 65 references, only 10 are non-web. Of those cited web "sources" most are actually non-biographical, and quite a few are in fact sourced to copyvios (queenarchives.com, freddie.ru). -- Fullstop (talk) 15:27, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

The article needs a decent photo for it to have a shot at Featured Status. With the photo that was up there recently, I expect it to be dismissed right away due to unperceived biases on the part of reviewers.146.186.39.94 (talk) 20:28, 26 October 2008 (UTC)