Talk:Free/Libre/Open-Source Software

The (currently) 3rd paragraph, the one that starts: "There may be a reason why FLOSS was invented"... looks like someones meandering thoughts they put in a blog entry. I'm going to edit heavily, mostly removing speculation and way-out-of-scope theories. This article is about the term, it shouldn't be a detailed explanation (one persons interpretation) of the rift between FS and OSS. Here I go... --Gronky

Page name
Currently, "Free/Libre" is a modifier on "Open Source" - which is wrong.

It should be either "Free, Libre, Open Source Softdware" or "Free/Libre/Open-Source Software". The former is only really aceptable in context, not as a name, so I suggest moving this page to the latter. A dash is needed between Open and Source to prevent "Free/Libre/Open" being a modifier on "Source". Post any objections here.


 * Page moved Gronky 09:38, 2005 May 25 (UTC)

Segmented the article
I segmented the article which I believe looks better, what do you think? I'd add a Free software section above open source explaining that it was the first term, and then go into why the open source was created (to make up for 'problems' with the free software term, the confusion, not emphasising technical merit, removing FOSS from ideological / philosophical viewpoint). --ShaunMacPherson 03:17, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

Clarification, please
I want to write an article about OSS (specifically, to encourage my university to install OOo), but want to make sure I get my terms right. Is the difference merely in the connotation, not in the denotation? What are the technical or implicatory consequences of just using the term "Open-Source Software"? These should be included in the article. Thanks! --RealGrouchy 15:51, 3 February 2006 (UTC)


 * This is discussed in alternative terms for free software. Hope that helps. Gronky 16:00, 3 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Not quite. Are all the terms interchangable? Does the part of the name, "Free/Libre" act as a qualifier of "Open-Source" (i.e. refers to only some OSS), a clarifier (i.e. doesn't change the meaning), or a modifier (i.e. some other group)? Also, linguistically speaking, are "Free" and "Libre" meant in the same way (i.e. they are redundant to each other), or does one act as a qualifier of the other (i.e. ...)? ........ Essentially, if I were to write an article and use the term "Open-Source Software" instead of FLOSS--or Vice-Versa, would I be changing the meaning (i.e. using a term that is broader/narrower than the other)? Sorry for the complicated (i.e. in need of clarification :P) words in my earlier question. --RealGrouchy 07:15, 4 February 2006 (UTC)


 * "free" is associated with the defintion published by Free Software Foundation. "open source" is associated with the definiton published by Open Source Iniative.  The defintions are not identical, so technically the terms refer to different things, but in practice, the list of software that fits one defintion but not the other is insignificant.  "libre" is not associated with any specific definition, although I think most people who care see it as a synonym for "free".  I say "most people who care" because most people don't care.  The definitions published by FSF and OSI are so similar that no one has felt the need to associate "libre" with either definition.


 * So "free", "libre", and "open source" are three repetitions of the same thing. They modify the word "software".  The reasons for choosing one term over another are political.  The repetition is there so as to exclude no one, and to create an a-political term.


 * That's the problem with the term FLOSS, however. These are not 3 repetitions of the same thing. Free Software operates under the FSF Foundation's principles. These are political principles with a specific political agenda associated with them: so-called "copy-left". The Open Source Definition doesn't care about politics; it's about empowering developers of software, allowing them to cooperate with each other where they all want to. Korval 10:47, 25 December 2006 (UTC)


 * If more clarification is needed, do ask, I'll try to update the alternative terms for free software article in response.


 * A short essay published by FSF on this topic is available here: http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-software-for-freedom.html


 * Gronky 19:18, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Frei?

 * The FLOSS acronym translates readily into other European languages, with for example the "F" representing free (English) or frei (German), and the "L" representing libre (Spanish or French), livre (Portuguese), or libero (Italian). By the end of 2004, the FLOSS acronym has been used in official English documents issued by South Africa, Spain, and Brazil. The FLOSS acronym is not used in official Spanish and Portuguese documents, since in these languages the unambiguious words libre and livre suffice.

While "frei" is a German translation for "free", it is almost equally unambiguous as "libre" -- while "Freibier" means "free beer", the adjective itself is used in the libre sense and "gratis" or "kostenlos"/"kostenfrei" (vs. "kostenpflichtig") are the adjectives used for the gratis sense. "Freie Software" is completely unambiguous ("Freies Bier" would be the rather absurd notion of libre beer, btw).

I don't think the acronym is very widespread in Germany, but either way the notion of "frei" being a translation for "free" seems a bit out of place. The (often misunderstood) term "open source" is a common Anglicism, btw, and Free Software is usually simply translated as Freie Software (which unambiguously refers to the libre sense).

I also don't see how the notion "The FLOSS acronym translates readily into other European languages" makes any sense if "libre" isn't an English word in the first place, "open source" being usually not translated at all and "free" being rather redundant in the presence of "libre". In German the Acronym would probably expand to "Freie/Libre/Open Source Software" (with "libre" just being redundant for repeating "frei" in a different language), so the L could just as well be dropped and the whole thing boiled down to "F/OSS" (which, as the article states, has a slightly different story).

Jesus. Why bother translating acronyms that arose from the need to resolve an ambiguity other languages don't neccessarily have? I guess "F/OSS" would be your best bet if you are going for a "FS and/or OSS" acronym in German: Freie / Open Source Software. -- Ashmodai 04:50, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Merge with FOSS or "Alternative terms for free software"?
Shouldn't this article be merged with Free and Open Source Software or Alternative terms for free software? --67.136.143.220 07:51, 4 August 2006 (UTC)


 * You are missing the point! "Free Software" is taken by a large number of people as that that meets the defination of the Free Software foundation.  Open Source software is that which meets the open source definition.  FLOSS is a term that aims to be inclusive of both.  The Folks at FSF.ORG are unwilling to consider their projects as "open Source" cmacd 02:41, 6 August 2006 (UTC)


 * You've just argued for a POV fork. The articles should be merged, Alternative terms for free software works.  You're welcome to mention such material on those pages.  I actually think they already are. --71.161.215.74 03:58, 6 August 2006 (UTC) (different anonymous)


 * I'll add tags to suggest the merge. To Cmacd123, although there are two definitions, the oss definition is just a rewording of the fs definition, and although it is possible for software to meet one definition but not the other, this almost never happens in practice.  Can you name any non-niche packages that are oss but not fs, or vice versa? Gronky 11:51, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Libre also = gratis in French? (According to Wiktionary)
http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Ffr.wiktionary.org%2Fwiki%2Flibre&langpair=fr%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&prev=%2Flanguage_tools

ie. One valid synonym of "libre" is "gratuit" which means "gratis".

ie. It seems to have the exact same problem as the English word "free".

--irrevenant [ talk ] 03:05, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
 * No, "libre" (for any definitions you are referring to above) means "without restriction". The particular synonym of "gratuit/gratis" that is applicable is as in an admission. As in, there are no restrictions to admission based on price. It does not apply to the "free as in beer" definition of "gratis". No cover, but not an open bar. --RealGrouchy 06:51, 31 December 2006 (UTC)