Talk:Free indirect speech

discussed in Plato's "Republic"
Plato outlines FIS in Book 3 of The Republic: “So this concludes the topic of tales. That of diction, I take it, is to be considered next. So we shall have completely examined both the matter and the manner of speech.” And Adeimantus said, “I don't understand what [392d] you mean by this.” “Well,” said I, “we must have you understand. Perhaps you will be more likely to apprehend it thus. Is not everything that is said by fabulists or poets a narration of past, present, or future things?” “What else could it be?” he said. “Do not they proceed4 either by pure narration or by a narrative that is effected through imitation,5 or by both?” “This too,” he said, “I still need to have made plainer.” “I seem to be a ridiculous and obscure teacher,6” I said; “so like men who are unable to express themselves [392e] I won't try to speak in wholes7 and universals but will separate off a particular part and by the example of that try to show you my meaning. Tell me. Do you know the first lines if the Iliad in which the poet says that Chryses implored Agamemnon to release his daughter, and that the king was angry and that Chryses,[393a] failing of his request, imprecated curses on the Achaeans in his prayers to the god?” “I do.” “You know then that until these lines,


 * And prayed unto all the Achaeans,
 * Chiefly to Atreus' sons, twin leaders who marshalled the people, Hom. Il. 1.15

the poet himself is the speaker and does not even attempt to suggest to us that anyone but himself is speaking. [393b] But what follows he delivers as if he were himself Chryses and tries as far as may be to make us feel that not Homer is the speaker, but the priest, an old man. And in this manner he has carried in nearly all the rest of his narration about affairs in Ilion, all that happened in Ithaca, and the entire Odyssey.” “Quite so,” he said. “Now, it is narration, is it not, both when he presents the several speeches and the matter between the speeches?” “Of course.” “But when he delivers a speech [393c] as if he were someone else, shall we not say that he then assimilates thereby his own diction is far as possible to that of the person whom he announces as about to speak?” “We shall obviously.” “And is not likening one's self to another speech or bodily bearing an imitation of him to whom one likens one's self?” “Surely.” “In such case then it appears he and the other poets effect their narration through imitation.” “Certainly.” “But if the poet should conceal himself nowhere, then his entire poetizing and narration would have been accomplished without imitation.1 [393d] And lest you may say again that you don't understand, I will explain to you how this would be done."

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0168%3Abook%3D3%3Apage%3D392

Austen
Free indirect discourse is also in Jane Austen's Emma

Free indirect discourse is in all of Austen's work, have added a brief reference to her status as 'first' FID user, this could be elaborated with examples. Have tried to make the specification of FID more accurate too, but needs more work. --looceefir 23:04, 14 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Examples would be really useful in this article. I'm not a big reader of Austen, but if we're going to highlight her she should have at least one or two quotes.  I'll try to keep my eyes open for something from elsewhere, too.  /blahedo (t) 20:57, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

I think you also find large examples of this in Jane Austen Pride and Prejudice —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.77.186.58 (talk) 20:08, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

I cut the discussion of Northanger Abbey and Austen's evolving style. This would be relevant in the Northanger Abbey article or in the Jane Austen article, but too much details for this article. Marfinan (talk) 03:41, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

surely there are much better examples than this Austen half-assedness. replace! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.230.40.81 (talk) 23:09, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

Merger
I merged Discours indirect libre into this article. Please feel free to revert if you think something is lost, but I believe it's obvious both articles should be merged eventually, as they discuss exactly the same subject, the only difference being that one is an original article and the other a translation of the equivalent article in the French Wikipedia.

The main changes I made are:

1. Rearranged the article into sections - most of the non-redundant content of the French article went into the Comparison section. 2. Omitted the 'Effect' section from the French article, since it seemed mostly redundant. 3. Translated the examples from French. My translation is far from literal, as I tried to exemplify the main points of difference between the three kinds of speech, instead of keeping in line with the original, but it may still be a bit shaky, as I am native neither in English nor in French. In Omne (talk) 18:02, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Direct Speech
Why is direct speech redirecting to this article? It got hardly anything to do with direct speech. --89.246.209.150 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 20:45, 6 November 2009 (UTC).

Grammar - Backshift of times
Hi,

I'm a student from Germany who has to repeat indirect speech. We exercise backshift of times. Shouln't this be mentioned in this article? --MartinThoma (talk) 12:02, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

Add this to the Narrative template?
The template on Narrative is found at the bottom of many articles, specifically Narration. Perhaps this article could be included in the Narrator line of articles. I have not edited a template like that, and believe it might require some agreement to get this narrative point of view included in the table of so many other aspects of a novel. --Prairieplant (talk) 07:17, 10 November 2016 (UTC)

Indirect discourse vs stream of consciousness
I don't think either To the Lighthouse or Mrs. Dalloway use indirect discourse, or at least not notably. Both are noted for stream of consciousnesss, which should not be confused with indirect discourse as is frequently done. In Molly Bloom's stream of consciousness in Ulysses, the reader is immersed in her "I" point of view. In indirect discourse, the narration stays in third person. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Contributor61 (talk • contribs) 02:01, 6 July 2017 (UTC)

Latin oratio obliqua -- free indirect?
As a Latinist, I don't think Latin oratio obliqua qualifies as free indirect speech: it is the normal construction for reported speech. The English translation of the Caesar passage given uses free indirect speech, but this is misleading. Oratio obliqua is syntactically marked (by the accusative and infinitive construction) as reported speech, while the crucial feature of free indirect speech is that it isn't so marked.

There are cases of true free indirect speech in Latin literature, but a far as I know they're limited to questions, e.g. "Quid agat?" "What should he do?"

I think the section should be removed, and will do so unless someone objects. Trecht (talk) 04:40, 18 July 2022 (UTC)


 * I agree with you. Novellasyes (talk) 19:27, 19 July 2022 (UTC)