Talk:French-speaking Quebecer

Bias of images in the infobox
There is a concern raised at Talk:Québécois about the infobox showing only images of PQ premiers, suggesting a bias. I agree there should be a wider representation. Remember you can always add more images of various prominent people; see for example English-speaking Quebecer. –Pomte 21:27, 27 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I think when you're deciding on infobox pictures, only people who are generally viewed positively, by consensus among the group in question, should be chosen. I think René Lévesque meets that criterion (He had Dorchester Blvd. in Montreal named after him — by a federalist mayor?), but Lucien Bouchard doesn't. Pierre Trudeau could be a possible exception to this because of his exceptional prominence. I would have René Lévesque, Pierre Trudeau and Jean Lesage be the only politicians. And I agree that the weight of politicians should be moderate. How about Maurice Richard? Marc Garneau [(in a space suit) 22:27, 27 April 2007 (UTC)]? Céline Dion? Gilles Vigneault? I wouldn't include Pierre Péladeau, but maybe another representative of Quebec, Inc. could be chosen. And how about Sol? Joeldl 21:46, 27 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Oh man, if you are talking about Sol (comedian), he was hilarious and nostalgic. I would definitely support his image in the infobox, but as the only image I see is non-free, I'm not sure if this constitutes fair use. –Pomte 22:06, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, in any infobox, you'll want a mixture of important people well-known to the group themselves (Jean Lesage is viewed as an extremely important figure in Quebec, and Gilles Vigneault is not well-known outside Francophone countries), who you want outsiders to know about, and people who are sort of "ambassadors". Céline Dion is an ambassador to the world in that sense, and Sol was one to English Canada. William Shatner's addition to English-speaking Quebecer is an example of this. Here's another idea: Louise Arbour. Her role as chief prosecutor at the Yugoslav war crimes tribunal, Supreme Court Justice, and now UN Human Rights Commissioner gives her a high profile.Joeldl 22:27, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Proposed photos for infobox
Add names without regard to availability of free photographs. Comments about that can be made under the name. Joeldl 22:37, 27 April 2007 (UTC)


 * René Lévesque (politician)
 * Lucien Bouchard (politician)
 * Oppose. Too controversial, particularly on left/right issues. Joeldl 22:39, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Pierre Trudeau (politician)
 * Public domain photo at article. Already used in French Canadian. Joeldl 02:47, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Jean Lesage (politician)
 * Maurice Richard (hockey player)
 * Céline Dion (singer)
 * Gilles Vigneault (song writer, poet, singer)
 * Sol (comedian)
 * Louise Arbour (former Supreme Court justice, UN Human Rights Commissioner)
 * I think the photo here: might be okay to use. I'm not sure how to check. Joeldl 02:50, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Émile Nelligan (poet)
 * Public domain photo at article. Joeldl 02:51, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Armand Frappier (scientist)
 * Anne Hébert (writer, poet)
 * No rstrictions on use of photo. Should be cropped. Joeldl 02:47, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Alphonse Desjardins (transplanted credit unions in North America)
 * Yves Lambert (singer, accordion player of La bottine souriante)
 * Fifi D'Orsay (Hollywood actress)
 * Nanette Workman (singer)
 * Robin Philpot (writer)
 * Oppose. Too controversial. Joeldl 02:47, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Joseph-Armand Bombardier (inventor of the snowmobile)
 * Denys Arcand (director)

For French speakers whose family origin is other than the prevalent mix of French Canadian, Acadian, Irish, English, Scottish:


 * Ying Chen (writer)
 * Sergio Kokis (writer)
 * Otto Joachim (classical music)
 * Ricardo Trogi (movie director)
 * Paul Ahmarani (actor)
 * Francis Mankiewicz
 * Anthony Kavanagh (comedian)
 * Wajdi Mouawad (writer, actor and director)
 * Dyne Mousso (actress)
 * Naïm Kattan (writer)
 * Gregory Charles (actor, singer and more)
 * Michaëlle Jean (journalist, Governor General of Canada)
 * The article for her contains a public domain image. Joeldl 02:32, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

How many photos in infobox?
African American has six. Six is probably the right number. I think we should try to have at least one non-white person, and at least two women. Joeldl 01:59, 30 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree. Three women would be even better. -- Mathieugp 02:43, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Michaëlle Jean
Denis C. says in this edit that Michaëlle Jean's photograph shouldn't be included because she's moved to Ottawa to perform her function as governor general, so she's no longer a Quebecer. I'm sorry, but this is a frivolous argument. She is generally identified as a Quebecer in the media, not as an Ontarian. (Otherwise, wouldn't all federal politicians be Ontarian?) Before becoming governor general, I don't think she lived in any other province.

I added her photo because she is one of the most prominent non-white francophone Quebecers, and a photo of her without copyright restrictions was available. (Many photos used elsewhere are subject to fair use conditions, and fair use might not apply here.)

Since I added the photo recently, that means we're deadlocked 1-1, so I will have to treat Denis C.'s opposition as an indication that there is no consensus for inclusion of the photo. I would appreciate additional opinions here. Joeldl (talk) 00:01, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that is a poor argument. Nowhere does it say that the person must still be residing in Quebec at the time of consulting the article. How could this even be implemented? -- Mathieugp (talk) 02:15, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

Since there's been no reply, I've restored the photo. Joeldl (talk) 04:47, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

Largest English-speaking city
The article currently states: "Until the language laws brought in by the Robert Bourassa government of the 1970s caused a diaspora of English-speaking Quebeckers to other parts of Canada, Montreal was Canada's largest English-speaking city. It is now majority French-speaking." I added the dubious tag because these two sentences are quite misleading, although it may just be a problem with wording. In the 1970s (and correct me if I am wrong on this), Montreal was not Canada's largest English-speaking city -- it was until then Canada's largest city, but its anglophone population did not exceed the population of any other Canadian city. Moreover, the article gives the false impression that Montreal was a majority English-speaking city until the 1970s (if I recall correctly, it hadn't been since the 19th century). Could someone with a bit more familiarity of the subject please rephrase this paragraph? Thanks. --Skeezix1000 (talk) 12:15, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
 * It may have declined from its former status as largest English-speaking city, but it still would have had that status as recently as a few years before; maybe a decade and a half, or before the Quiet Revolution. This is an oft-repeated description of the city in histories of "Older Canada", before modern-era revisionism; and it was one of the bones of contention of Quebecois nationalism that this was the case.  Maybe have a look at the '71, '66, '61, '56 and '51 censuses if you don't believe me.  I was raised with this as a fact; it definitely had to do with the combination  of the English-Quebecker diaspora that this became the case, and the la revanche de berçeau; maybe it's only pre-WWII but I don't think much earlier than that.Skookum1 (talk) 13:41, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Re the earlier censuses, note that it's maybe the metropolitan area and not the City of Montreal proper, i.e. including Outremont, Westmount, Mount-Royal, Dorval etc.Skookum1 (talk) 13:43, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
 * It can be shown quite easily that 1) Toronto was already larger than Montreal economically speaking in the 1940s and 2) became larger than Montreal demographically speaking in the early 1970s. The population of both cities was growing extremely fast from 1951 to 1971. I wrote a properly sourced paragraph entitled "Montreal and Toronto" in Economy of Montreal that proves it.


 * I have never seen before "a diaspora of English-speaking Quebeckers to other parts of Canada" blamed on "language laws brought in by the Robert Bourassa government of the 1970s". The usual propaganda, demonstrably false, is that there was an "exodus" of anglophones and it was caused by the election of the PQ in 1976 or in another variant of the same by the 1977 Charter of the French Language.
 * There's a BIG difference between economic history and demographic history, and it's well-known that various companies "went down the road" to Toronto in the '70s, and a lot of their employees followed suit; I know the exodus rates were lower than expected but as I recall in t he "propaganda" they were on the order of 50,000/year; no doubt that's denied in Quebec French-language papers; but I also know English-speaking French Quebeckers whose primarily language at home was English, so even a tally of people of French ethnicity wouldn't help much (my own mother was Anglo-Quebecker of French descent, though her family moved out for California in the 1920s; when she returned to Canada she was distressed that the immigration officer marked her down as "French Canadian" because of her surname, to which she replied "but I'm not French", and he just sniffed at her with a "too bad". English Quebecker groups have their own studies on the diaspora/ no doubt you'd denounce them as "propaganda".  French used to be rarely heard in Westmount and Beaconsfield; now it's commonplace; I suppose the anglo-Quebeckers just got absorbed into the wallpaper and (despite all those I met) the people who allegedly moved out are only mythical?Skookum1 (talk) 16:05, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
 * You are mixing up a lot of things here. First, I do not know where you get the idea that French-language papers denied whatever it is you think is being denied. The usual propaganda is 1) to attribute the outmigration of anglophones to Quebec's language legislation even though the trend started before and obviously the Quebec government didn't create the new job opportunities of Ontario, Alberta and BC 2) to refer to the migration of people from one province of what they consider their country to another province of the same as an "exodus" 3) to rely on people's ignorance of the migration stats for other Canadian provinces to make it seem like something specific is happening in the case of Quebec.
 * Are these movements also to be blamed on Quebec's evil separatists or are people going to start seriously considering that maybe there are stronger macroeconomic factors responsible for mass movements of English-speaking workers inside Canada? Time to get real.
 * http://www.canadiangeographic.ca/atlas/themes.aspx?id=settling&sub=settling_basics_migration&lang=En
 * http://www.lib.unb.ca/Texts/CJRS/Autumn99/Finnie.pdf
 * http://www12.statcan.ca/english/census01/products/analytic/companion/mob/time.cfm
 * http://www.abheritage.ca/albertans/perspectives/demo_intermigration.html


 * Bonne lecture! :-) -- Mathieugp (talk) 22:31, 5 June 2009 (UTC)


 * As for the ratio franco/anglo the majority was of French mother tongue that is for sure, but we have no census data on "language most often spoken at home" before 1971 and no data on language at work before 2001. (There were of course studies and surveys before these dates). That information is unfortunately scattered all over the Net right now. This is clearly an area where Wikipedia could be very useful in putting all pieces together in one place. -- Mathieugp (talk) 14:44, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

The entry name for this article
The entry name for this article has not been chosen appropriately, since it includes a repetition: La nation Québécoise est un peuple de langue française. Toute personne qui parle uniquement l’anglais est tout simplement un « Canadian ». C’est d’ailleurs comme ça qu’ils se nomment lorsqu’ils sont interrogés à ce sujet. Quand, pour certains, ils affirment être « Kebecer[sic] », ceci ne signifie pas qu’ils se considèrent membre de la nation Québécoise mais tout simplement qu’ils sont « Canadians » vivants dans « the province of Quebec »

Therefore, I recommend the change of name for this entry, which might rather be called "Québécois nation"(to be linked with the Québécois nation motion article). The uniformity of the term should also be seriously discussed within the responsibles for this wiki, since we have the presence of unnecessary synonyms(Québécois, Quebecker and Quebecer) used without reason. For an example of this, see especially the following disambiguation page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qu%C3%A9b%C3%A9cois —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.162.58.44 (talk) 05:48, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
 * "Quebecois nation" and "French-speaking Quebecer" are two different concepts. Many people, certainly including Gilles Duceppe and Jean Charest, would dispute that they are synonymous. 82.124.100.124 (talk) 12:49, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

The above two unsigned comments are difficult to make sens of. First of all, the comment in French by 207.162.58.44 should be translated to English for the sake of those here who cannot read this language very well. Second, I do not see any connection whatsoever between the comment and the call to change the name. Change it to what? The article is simply intended to be the equivalent of English-speaking Quebecer, a profile of the community of French speakers in Quebec. But without the lack of neutrality of that article of course. Right now, I am involved into writing other articles more related to history, but I always intended to come back to this article and add sections describing the demographics of French-speaking Quebecker, the various communities that are part of it, their institutions, their history, etc.

Regarding the photos of the infobox, any person who is identified as both a Quebecer and a French speaker can be added there. However, we should strive to better represent the whole group by having 50% men, 50% women, visible minorities, etc. -- Mathieugp (talk) 13:25, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

Need clarification
By "French-speaking" do we only mean those who have spoken French from birth? What about those who speak French fluently, but not as their native language? There are numerous such people in Quebec. 108.254.160.23 (talk) 03:22, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

Relevance of this page.
Is this page really necessary? It should probably just redirect to Quebecois people or French Canadian. There's really no new information on this page that can't be included in those two pages. . — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.246.14.30 (talk) 02:34, 6 January 2017 (UTC)