Talk:Frentera

California
This online catalog shows:
 * A horse wearing (a) a bridle with bit, and (b) a halter consisting of a thin bosal-style noseband, hanger, frentera, and a fiador consisting of a rope tied around the neck, its bight passed through the halter noseband.
 * A horse wearing (a) a bridle with bit, noseband, frentera, throatlatch, and a fiador (here again, a rope tied around the neck, its bight passed through the noseband).
 * A horse wearing (a) a bridle with bit, browband, and throatlatch, and (b) a halter of sorts consisting of a bosal-style noseband hung on a forelock hanger, and a fiador (bight passed through bridle throatlatch and halter noseband).
 * A bridle with an elaborate metal frentera (testera).

In captions, the fiador is called a "getdown rope", the testera is a "faceplate" --Una Smith (talk) 20:02, 19 March 2008 (UTC)


 * These are historic designs, you see them in parades and such. Other than some forelock hangers on bosal horses, no one actually uses these other than for exhibitions.  Frankly, parades, movies, and various folk festival things where people dress like they did in the 1800s are about the only places I have ever seen them.  What you need to do is find some public domain photos (Got to be some somewhere, maybe Library of Congress) and some books or magazines that explain this properly.  Catalogues are better than nothing, but they are not really great sources.  I'm not sure what your point for this comment is; Frenteras are not used in any modern horse show events in the English-speaking world, not any of the western classes (you don't even see forelock hangers, not sure it they are illegal, but definitely not seen)  with the possible exception of the Paso Fino or Peruvian Paso breeds, where a lot of Spanish-styled equipment is seen, but I can't say that with certainty.


 * More: Upon looking at the designs, the "getdown rope" isn't a fiador, it's a thing also called a neckrope; the "bosalito" is what is used on a finished Spade bit horse, it's a totally different thing for a totally different purpose.  The bosalito isn't really used much, if at all, as the horse works off the bit.  The designs at that web site are basically the vaquero tradition's four-rein equivalent to the English double bridle, only with a bosalito instead of a snaffle.


 * One thing that isn't being brought into the conversation anywhere (because doing it right will take weeks to write, part-time) is the rest of the bosal hackamore tradition, which is to produce the polished spade bit horse. Given the spat at bitless bridle  over metal in the mouth, I didn't even want to start discussing the Spade, plus on all of this stuff there is a dearth of free images, so it has just been too complicated to go into.   Montanabw (talk) 21:38, 19 March 2008 (UTC)


 * A discussion of spade bits really does not belong on this talk page. --Una Smith (talk) 05:05, 20 March 2008 (UTC)


 * My only point was that the bosalito has a different place in training than the bosal, just noting the big picture, thats all.  Montanabw (talk) 19:36, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

If looked at in isolation, the fiador and the get down rope as used in California may seem to be unrelated. But both are part of the Spanish Colonial equestrian tradition of the fiador and that tradition is far larger than California and its US derivatives. --Una Smith (talk) 05:00, 20 March 2008 (UTC)


 * NO argument that they are both of Spanish origins, but the issue is how each of those traditions has taken different forms in different places. I claim zero expertise as to what is done in Argentina or Brazil or Spain or even Hungary, but I suspect that different words are used for some things, the look, construction, etc. differs too...my only point is to respect the regional traditions.  I doubt that modern Spanish trainers use the bosal-to-bosalito-to spade bit method in Spain much today at all, and if they still use a variant, it differs from that of the Californian and Great Basin tradition, and I am quite sure that there are Spanish training traditions used today in Spain that are not seen in Mexico or Chile or the USA for example.  Not good or bad, just different.  All I really am concerned about here is trying to be accurate and avoiding original research.  And in the California tradition, the neck rope (or "getdown rope") is not quite the same thing, nor used for the same purpose, as a fiador, that's all.   Montanabw (talk) 19:36, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Playing by the rules
Una, I was thinking that the following image should be the lead for this article, because I think we can both agree the horse has a frentera supporting the bosal? Montanabw (talk) 06:42, 8 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Image too low resolution to use for this article. --Una Smith (talk) 23:17, 11 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Amusing, because weren't you the one who originally added it?   Montanabw (talk) 01:13, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

A "bit lifter" in other languages
Just a couple found, by chance. --Una Smith (talk) 23:17, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Finnish language: kuolaimen nostaja
 * Swedish language: bettlyftare

Source here. --Una Smith (talk) 23:19, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

Updates
Just so you know, the recent changes to this particular article have been very nicely done. I like the historical images as well, they are appropriate and suitable. Thank you also for allowing related equipment to be described as such. Montanabw (talk) 01:23, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

Chapeado
Cool Argentine site. --Una Smith (talk) 08:30, 10 November 2008 (UTC)