Talk:Fresa (slang)

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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 15 June 2021 and 3 August 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Lilybeth830.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 21:52, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Unsourced material removed
Given that editors apparently do not wish to actually locate and cite sources for the material that I couldn't find reliable sources for when I wrote it, and have repeatedly removed the citeneeded tag without citing sources as required, I have removed the unsourced material. This material will stay removed until sources are cited. Further unsourced additions will be mercilessly removed, too. Citing sources is not optional. Uncle G 08:58, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

The book "Los de Arriba" (The Top Dogs) written by Guadalupe Loaeza is a history of the Mexican upper classes from the 1930s to the 21st century. In the chapter covering the 1970's she writes "In spite of the social changes (in Mexico) many upper class girls couldn't help being classist, racist and totally clueless. The girls who were as conservative as their mothers were labeled as "niñas fresas". This type of girls would study languages or history of art. Even though they were well informed, they were constantly shocked by what others did or said, e.g. regarding sex before marriage or drugs". (Pages 164-167) Attitudes have changed since the seventies, the same author writes "In the nineties the Fresa girls went out to clubs, it became acceptable to talk about private matters, AIDS, homosexuality, cosmetic surgeries and liftings, things had changed a lot since the 1950s!" (Pages 207-208)

Footnotes: Loaeza, Guadalupe "Los de Arriba" November 2002, Plaza & Janes Mexico S.A. de C.V. ISBN: 968-11-0575-3

Other books by the same author regarding the Mexican upper class are: "Las niñas bien" "Las reinas de Polanco" "Compro luego exito" (about their shopping habits) "Manual de la Gente Bien" (A manners book)

Also: "Ricas y famosas" by Daniela Rossell (a photography book that shocked many in Mexico by the display of wealth) For pictures of fresas in social events visit: www.quien.com (website for society magazine Quien) Philix 27

As a wikipedian enthusiast I agree 100% and stand behind the policies of quoting sources. Yet as a Mexican I'm afraid much truth about this social phenomenon would be quite hard to reliably quote, and as such, some of them have already been taken down despite being true.

Take for example, where it says that fresas use a particular entonation while speaking and mix-in english words. Believe me, not only is this true, but even has its depths to it, e.g., there are whole sections of youngsters who inevitably (i.e. being born and grow) have this entonation due to their background and formation, and there are those who imitate it to acquire whatever attributes the fresa have, and there are those who can tell the difference.

So what could I quote as a reliable source? I think I could record the voices of several people and upload them as .ogg since I have plenty to pick from both "fresa" and "naco" "cliques".

I did notice the article has already been nominated for deletion once, and I'm guessing many of you wonder why would I even bother with further elaborating on this subject. In my own opinion, the more light I can shed on the topic, the more educated an opinion will foreign people make if they ever come across these phenomenons. It is already tough to deal with these labels being a native, and the last thing I'd want is for anyone to unadvertedly or wrongfully "stick to", or get misled, by any of these stereotypes.

I know this goes (in parallel, not that they are related) as far as to the U.S., and I wonder if it does too in other cultures (i.e. Yuna Ito suddenly speaking English for no good reason in the "Nana" movie... I just shake my head... that's so, "Rebelde"), therefore I have hope that reasonable people will come to learn about this with an open mind and specially learn that these cultural traits do not define an entire nation, neither in the foreigner's eyes, nor in our own, and that there are people with enough maturity to see beyond them and appreciate people for who they really are.

Also, sorry if this was too long for the discussion section, I can talk too much about this without realizing it because it worries me too much that the fresa/naco deal is getting out of control here, almost to the point of affecting the presidential elections, but that's another story eh? :) Oleksandr 05:09, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Image:Mia vico.jpg
Image subtext stated that both Mia and Vico characters are Fresa. While they both could arguably fall under the umbrella term for belonging to the fictional elite school, the character Vico does not meet the full criteria as Bouyer's performance characteristicly lacks the speech intonation (often noted as the trait with most weight for consideration of Fresa). Mia's character on the other hand, perfectly fits the description though (namely, the actress' performance is better rendered). So if A) Such difference be stated and B) The image's license is appropriate indeed, then by all means add it to the article again.

[Note that the stated license applies for a Screenshot (e.g. video capture), yet, in my own eyes at least, it looks more like a direct scan of many printed propaganda about the show.]

Recent Reverts
Alfonsomedina1 wrote: ''Also, in Mexico, most of the middle and nearly all the upper classes look different in that they are more European(or American) looking. These kids are often undistiguishable from Americans''.

From Wikipedia, Help:Reverting: ''Do not revert good faith edits. In other words, try to consider the editor "on the other end." If what one is attempting is a positive contribution to Wikipedia, a revert of those contributions is inappropriate unless, and only unless, you as an editor possess firm, substantive, and objective proof to the contrary. Mere disagreement is not such proof. See also Wikipedia:Assume_good_faith.''

1) The very definition currently portrayed in the article conflicts with such statement. 2) Sources not cited.

This article is getting quite some bold, uncited, possibly false and nearly ridiculous edits. Before considering bringing attention on it for vandalism or tag it, I will try to find the time to research and cite sources of a more professional nature, which even I can't think will be absolute, this being a sociological topic, which by the way, has and continues to evolve through time.

PabloBraun wrote: "It's a very tough subject to write about, since most comments are biased in one way or another. AlfonsoMedina wrote that upper classes look undistinguishable from Americans. This is not really true, and the comment itself likely stems from a desire of separating himself from the Amerindian ethnological group. Indeed people from upper classes have more European ancestry, but this ancestry is mostly Spanish (and, to a lesser degree, Italian), as can be deduced from their predominantly Spanish last names. Even ethnically, upper class Mexicans share most facial traits with Mediterranean Caucasians, including skin, hair and eye color, but also jaw and eye shape. I have no verifiable citations to prove this, and empirical proof comes from extensive travelling (I've lived in Mexico, Spain, France and currently the UK). it would be interesting to note that this is most easily noticed by comparing Mexican and Spanish soap-operas. I'd just like to stress that there is little relationship between the concept of Fresa and any degree of ethnical mixing from the United States, besides some indirect reverence towards said country's culture. Although there is a lot of immigration from the US to Mexico, it tends to isolate itself into small communities around well-known leisure centers, and immigrants tends to be older and without offspring. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.166.186.153 (talk) 14:19, 27 February 2009 (UTC)