Talk:Freyja/Archive 1

Freya in Norse Mythology
Also widely known as Vanadis (Goddess of the Vanir), Freya (Freyja or Freja) is originally a fertility goddess, One who gives Life, but nowadays, she is often seen as a Goddess of Fertility, Wealth, Love, Lust, Beauty, Attraction, Magic, Prophecy, War, Battle, and Death. Her name means "the Lady", while her twin brother's name, Frei (Freyr or Frej), means "the Lord". Freya is said to be the fairest, most beloved and renowned among Norse goddesses. She has a unique emcompassing combination of attributes.

The followings were written about Freya:

The ninth hall is Folkvang, where fair Freya decrees

Where her warriors shall sit

Half of the fallen belong to her

Half belong to Odin

(Grimnismol / The Ballad of Grimnir, Poetic Edda)

Njord's children: the son was called Frei, and the daughter Freya; they were fair of face and mighty. Frei is the most renowned of the Æsir; he rules over the rain and the shining of the sun, and therewith the fruit of the earth; and it is good to call on him for fruitful seasons and peace. He governs also the prosperity of men. But Freya is the most renowned of the goddesses; she has in heaven the dwelling called Folkvang (Field of the Folk), and wheresoever she rides to the strife, she has one-half of the slain, and Odin half. Her hall Sessrumnir (Room of Seats) is great and fair. When she goes forth, she drives her cats and sits in a chariot; she is most conformable to human's prayers, and from her name comes the name of honor, Frú, by which noblewomen are called. Songs of love are well-pleasing to her; it is good to call on her for furtherance in love.

(Gylfaginning, Prose Edda)

Amongst the Asynjur (goddesses), Freya is most gently born (together with Frigg): she is wed to the man named Odr. Their daughter is Hnoss: she is so fair, that those things which are fair and precious are called "hnossir". Odr went away on long journeys, and Freya weeps for him, and her tears are red gold. Freya has many names, and this is the cause thereof: that she gave herself various names, when she went out among unknown peoples seeking Odr: she is called Mardoll and Horn, Gefn, Syr. Freya had the necklace Brisingamen. She is also called Lady of the Vanir.

(Gylfaginning, Prose Edda)

Freya's Consort is either Odr (or Odin in some sources). Other than his name, nothing is known about Odr (spirit). He is called a man, but that doesn't necessarily mean Odr is human, because Snorri Sturluson (author of Prose Edda) treats pagan Norse gods and goddesses as normal men and women. Odr doesn't have any role, job, function, nor there was any traces of a deity like that being worshipped. Odr is maybe just another name or a clone of Odin (who also often went away in long journeys). It is unsure that if Freya has a husband at all, and Hnoss was maybe either her subordinate or Freya herself represented at younger age.

About Freya's name (which means the Lady), and her brother Frei's name (which means the Lord), there's no way to know if those were the original meanings of the words (frei and freya), or the words and their meanings were derived from the divine twins' names.

Freya owns the following magical items:

- Hawk's Dress (Falcon-feathered Cloak): A magical cloak made of feathers which can turn its wearer in to any kinds of bird and allow its wearer to fly between worlds in a very short time. Freya lent this cloak to Loki twice, once to rescue Idun, once to search for Thor's stolen hammer.

- Cat-driven Chariot: A chariot drawn by two large blue cats (Norwegian cats). Freya has special connections with cats, and this is her favourite ride. She went to Baldur's funeral at the beginning of Ragnarok in this chariot.

- Hildisvini (Battle Swine): The golden-bristled battle boar which Freya rides on when she's not using her chariot. In Hyndluljod, the boar is said to be Ottar (Freya's disciple) in disguise, but it seems that Ottar was temporarily disguised as Hildisvini, not that Hildisvini is Ottar.

- Brisingamen (Jewelry of Fire): Freya's mighty and famous necklace (just like other items, Eddas do not mention its origin). But now reputedly, she either obtained it from four dwarves by sleeping with them one night each, or received it as a gift from Alberich, King of the Dwarves, along with a ring and a sword.

There's no source which states that Freya is a goddess of [anything]. It's people who read (or heard) about her that labelled her a goddess of this and that. I'll try to explain her "labels".

Goddess of Fertility and Wealth
Njord and Nerthus (not sure) are both Fertility deities, their descendants Frei and Freya are also associated with Fertility and Wealth. They both ride on boars, which suggest "fertility". As a giver of life, a patron goddess of crop and birth, Freya was often called upon at harvests and childbirths.

In Oddrunargartar (Oddrun's Laments, Poetic Edda), after giving birth to a babyboy and a babygirl, princess Borgny called upon Frigg and Freya to bless Oddrun, who had been with her during severe pains of childbirth to assist her delivery. Here, Frigg is regarded as a goddess of healing, while Freya as a goddess of fertility.

Freya's clan, the Vanir, were worshipped as deities of sea, water, land, fertility, and prosperity. It is also worth mentioning that the Vanir are thought to be close relatives of elves, who are considered minor fertility deities (whereas the Æsir are related to giants, hence they are warlike). Frei's realm is Alfheim, he is pretty much Lord of the elves. Njord is a god of the sea. Frei is more on the earth side (crops) and Freya is more on the human side (births).

Freya's tears are of the purest gold and amber, thus she brings wealth to the world as well.

Goddess of Love
"Love songs are well-pleasing to her, it is good to call on her for furtherance in love." Snorri described Freya as a goddess of love. Although the lowly people in Midgard often send to Freya prayers in the matters of love, she was unable to heal her own broken heart. Freya deeply loves her Consort Odr (or Odin), however, he often went away on long journeys. For this, Freya cried alot, therefore she is often represented as the weeping goddess. Her red golden tears when falling on mountains, become gold, when falling into the sea, become amber. She is a model of fidelity to her husband, and often went out searching for him. Their daughters are also very beautiful, they are Hnoss (jewel) and Gersemi (treasure) (the later was mentioned in Ynglinga Saga).

Not only Freya is the fairest of all that anyone who looked at her can't help but fall in love, she is also said to be the kindest to mankind, especially to lovers. The three minor goddesses mentioned right after Freya (in Gylfaginning, Prose Edda) are often thought to be her messengers and attendants (or just Freya's other names): Sjofn, Lofn, and Var. They are patron goddesses of love, marriage, and oaths between men and women.

This is written in Microsoft Encarta ® 2007: Northern Europeans associated the plant with the Norse goddess of love, Freya, and developed the custom of kissing underneath mistletoe branches. Christians incorporated this custom into their Christmas celebrations, and kissing under a mistletoe branch eventually became a part of secular Christmas tradition.

Goddess of Beauty and Attraction
Blonde, blue-eyed, Freya is said to be the most beautiful of all goddesses, second being Sif, Thor's golden-haired wife (Loki cut off all her hair in one of his stupid pranks, and had to get her a golden wig or Thor would have crushed his bones). Freya is called "the Fair One". Many a Jotun (giant or troll) wanted to raid Asgard, rob the gods' treasures and carry fair Freya away, but all met their doom under Thor's hammer. Amongst those, two tales are famous.

One is mentioned in Voluspo (The Wise Woman's Prophecy, Poetic Edda) and Prose Edda. After the war of the gods (the war between Æsir and Vanir), the walls of Asgard were heavily damaged. Then, a giant disguised as a builder, came and offered to repair the walls of Asgard in one winter, in return for fair Freya as his wife, plus the Sun and Moon. The gods promptly declined, but Loki explained that there's no way the giant would be able to complete the job in such a short time, and advised them to accept the deal. However, with the help of his huge steed Svadilfari, the giant did the job pretty fast. The gods were worried, Freya was angry.

Then sought the gods their assembly-seats

The holy ones, and council held

To find who with venom the air had filled

Or had given Odr's bride to the giants' brood

Well, who else? Together they cornered Loki and urged him to correct his mistake. Loki had no choice. He turned himself into a cute little mare and seduced the giant's steed. They ran into the forest nearby. Without his horse, the giant failed to finish his job on time, and Thor came to deliver a hammer on his head as a reward. Equally luckless was Loki as he couldn't escape his fiery mate Svadilfari. When Loki finally came back, he was pregnant, and later gave birth to Sleipnir, the eight-legged horse, which Odin took as his favourite ride.

In Thrymskvitha (The Poem of Thrymr, Poetic Edda), one day, Thor woke up and found his hammer Mjolnir stollen. It was the most powerful weapon of the gods, and the only thing which could protect them from giants. Thor asked Loki for help, and the two went to Folkvang to borrow Freya's magical cloak. Putting on the cloak, Loki flew to Jotunheim where he soon discovered that Thrymr, the King of the Rime-Jotuns (frost giants), had hid Thor's hammer somewhere and demmanded to marry fair Freya in exchange. (In this poem which is one of the oldest in Elder Edda, Freya is called "Freya the fair", "Njord's fair daughter". Odr was not mentioned, perhaps he has not been invented yet). When Loki came back and asked Freya to come with them to the giant's home, she was so wrathful that all the dwellings in heaven were shaken and the necklace Brisingamen broke off from her neck.


 * Loki:

Bind thee, Freya

in bridal raiment

for we two must drive

to Jotunheim.


 * Freya:

Know me to be

of women lewdest

if with thee I drive

to Jotunheim.

Later, in the gods' meeting to solve the problem, Heimdall advised that Thor should put on a woman dress and go himself as he of all people lost the hammer. Having no choice, Thor borrowed Brisingamen and came to the wedding dressing up as Freya. Loki also came along, disguised as Freya's maid. Thrymr was overjoyed to see "Freya", claiming that he had all the treasures in this world, only bright Freya he lacked. But at the banquet, he was shocked when "Freya" ate an ox, eight salmons, and drank three casks of meads in a row. "Never seen a bride more keen to bite", loudly spoke Thrymr. The maid (Loki) said that Freya didn't eat in eight days because she was too eager to become his wife. Thrymr couldn't wait anymore. He came to sit near his new bride and tried to look beneath the veil, only to see fearful burning eyes. "Why so fearsome are the eyes of Freya?" yelled Thrymr as he jumped back. The maid (Loki) said that Freya didn't sleep in eight nights because she was too eager to become his wife. Thrymr then put the hammer on his "lovely" maiden's thighs, longing for a kiss. Big mistake, because "Freya" took the hammer and hit him on the head. All Thrymr's kin who gathered at the wedding were slaughtered by Thor in a bloody massacre (he was mad eversince he had to wear woman dress). Thus, Freya's beauty killed that many trolls.

Goddess of War, Battle, and Death
When Freya first came to Asgard together with her father Njord and brother Frei from Vanaheim (as a token of goodwill following the peace treaty), the Æsir were stunned by her divine beauty. They immediately gave her the sacred realm of Folkvang (Field of the Folk), where then lies her great and fair hall Sessrumnir (Room of Seats). Like Odin, Freya is also interested in heroic deeds, she shares with Odin the souls of fallen warriors. Whenever she rides into battles, she gets half of the slain.

The ninth hall is Folkvang, where fair Freya decrees

Where her warriors shall sit

Half of the fallen belong to her

Half belong to Odin

Some of them go to Sessrumnir, the rest become einherjars of Valhalla. It is not known if the Valkyries (Choosers of the slain) decide who will go where, or Odin and Freya personally pick them. While there are descriptions about what einherjars do at Valhalla, little is known about life at Folkvang.

Her alias, Vanadis, which means Dis of the Vanir, suggests that Freya might also be a Valkyrie, a Norn, or their supreme Leader. As a brave warrior goddess, she may sometimes even fly into battle together with the Valkyries, but most of references on this were perhaps scrapped and lost when the myth was changed by Christians. Though Freya and the Valkyries carry weapons and wear armours, they never actually engaged in combats. Their job is only to fly above battles (their glittering armours were said to cause the aurora borealis) and collect the souls of slain heroes. (In the myths, fighting and killing are always Thor's job, and all other mighty gods like Odin, Tyr, Heimdall, Frei, Baldur, Ull rarely fight. None of the gods can hold on their own against a strong Jotun anyway, not even Thor without his belt and hammer, let alone the goddesses.) While the Valkyries and all einherjars are destined to perish at Ragnarok along with Odin, Freya would survive the apocalyptic battle.

This was written in Ynglinga Saga: After the deaths of Odin, Njord, and Frei; Freya alone remained of the gods, and she became on this account so celebrated that all noble women were called by her name, whence they now have the title Frú; so that every woman is called frú, or mistress over her property, and the wife is called the house-frú. Freya continued the blood sacrifices.

Like the Valkyries who also serve drinks for the gods at banquets, Freya may occasionally pour the wine as well. This story is written in Prose Edda: One day, when Thor was away slaying trolls somewhere, Odin riding on Sleipnir had a fierce race with a giant called Hrungnir who rode on his horse Gold-Mane. The giant lost the race, but he was a sore loser, and ended up following Odin to Asgard. There, the gods feared him and invited him in for a drink. Hrungnir boasted that he would destroy Asgard and kill all the gods, lift Valhalla and carry it back to Jotunheim with one hand. At the table, the goddesses were all scared of him, only Freya dared to pour him ale. The giant drank alot, ate alot, while not forgetting to boast even more, until Thor came back with hammer in hand and asked "who is this giant dog to sit at Valhalla's banquet and get poured by Freya?". Hrungnir wasn't itimidated at all. He offered Thor a duel if he is to get back home and get his gears/weapons. Thor allowed him to go. News spread fast across Jotunheim, and the giants tried to help their champion by making a huge giant from clay. But they didn't have time to find a big enough heart, and put in the heart of a mare. Later, Thor came to the rendezvous with his clever messenger Thjalfi. Hrungnir waited for him there with a big shield, a big horn, and the clay giant by his side. But this clay giant was of little help as he wet himself upon hearing thunders from afar. Thjalfi tricked them that Thor was going to attack from beneath, so Hrungnir put his great shield on the ground and stood on it, wielding only the horn. Thor actually came from the sky and they cast their weapons against each other. The horn struck the hammer and broke into parts. One hit Thor's head and fallen was he from his chariot. Hrungnir was about to finish the god, but the hammer also fell down from above and crushed his stone head. The giant's corpse fell on Thor, and he couldn't stand up until his son Magni came and lifted the corpse (which all other gods failed to do). For this, Thor gave his son the giant's steed, Gold-Mane; and Odin was not happy, saying that the horse should be given to him instead (Odin dislikes Magni because he is the son of Thor with a giantess, not Sif).

Some sources suggest that nobles and women would pass Freya's hall in death as well. In Egil's Saga (about Egill Skallagrimsson, a poet and warrior who was Snorri Sturluson's ancestor), when Egil's daughter, Thorgerd, threatened to commit suicide, she said: "No supper have I had, and none shalt I have until I sup with Freya. I can do no better than does my father: I will not over-live my father and brother."

Goddess of Magic and Prophecy
Freya is a skilled and powerful magician who taught the Æsir the art of witchcraft (Seid). She owns an enchanted cloak made of falcon feathers, with which she can fly through different worlds in a very short time. Her associated runes are Feoh (fire, fertility, wealth, gold, and cattle) and Ken (star/moon light, amber, orange). Freya loves cats, and cats love Freya (cats in modern cultures are often viewed as familiars of witches). The pair of blue cats accompanying her in her daily flights on the sky were a gift from Thor, and Freya gave them the honor of pulling her chariot. Freya may be one of the first definitions of "witch" and was a high priestess in her people's views.

The following was written in Ynglinga Saga: Njord's daughter, Freya, was the priestess of the sacrifices, and first taught the Æsir the magic art, as it was in use and fashion amongst the Vanir.

Seid's origin is assigned to Freya, and believed to have been practiced mostly by women. About Seid, it's hard to tell exactly what kind of sorcery it was. Anyhow, it is said to be done mostly at night, and those who practice it (called Seidkona) sit upon a raised platform called the seat of witches (Seidhjallr) during magic performances. The performance was connected with a magic song or incantation, and the melody of this chant is said to be beautiful to hear. This art of witchcraft also involved boiling objects which are thought to have magical powers. With this art, the witch can do many different things, like predicting future (prophecies), morphing to different animals, inflicting injuries, or even summoning forth storms.

The story where Freya's magical cloak saved the day is found in Skaldskaparmal (The poesy of Skalds, Prose Edda). One day, Odin, Loki, and Honir were wandering somewhere in mountains. They caught an ox and tried to cook it, but ultimately failed. An enormous eagle then offered to help, if they would give him a share of the meat. The three agreed. But later the eagle swiftly ate both the hams and good parts, Loki was angry and chased after him. The eagle was infact a powerful giant called Thjazi. He caught Loki and threatened to tear his arms off unless he is to lure goddess Idun out with her apples (which can restore youth). Lousy was Loki, he cried out loud and gave an oath to do so. He didn't told anyone what happened until they come back to Asgard. There, he lied to Idun that he saw apples even better than hers in a wood, and that she should bring her apples out to compare with those. Idun went to that wood, and was kidnapped by Thjazi. Soon the gods found out that Idun was missing, and she was last seen going with Loki. They captured Loki and were about to beat the craps outta him for what he had done. Loki then declared that he would go seek for Idun if Freya would lend him her magical cloak. With the cloak, Loki transformed into a bird and flew to Jotunheim. He eventually found Thjazi's house, and Idun was home alone. Loki turned her into a nut, grasped her within his claws, and flew away. But they soon found themselves in hot pursuit by Thjazi in his eagle form. Loki flew faster, and he entered Asgard first. The gods quickly closed the gate and threw fire at the eagle, whose wings got caught and burnt in the flames. The gods then all came out with weapons in hands and gloriously butchered the helpless giant. This triumph over Thjazi was exceedingly famous.

However, the gods' victory celebration didn't last long. Soon, Skadi came fully armoured, with shield and swords to avenge her father. The gods found her cute, and weren't in the mood to fight a woman. They offered her atonement. First, they put Thjazi's eyes on the sky as two new stars. Second, Skadi was so sad with the loss of her father, they tried to make her laugh but failed. Loki then brought out a rope and tied one end to a goat's ... balls, the other end to his own. As the goat dragging Loki around, the giantess couldn't help but laughed. Finally, Skadi was allowed to choose her husband amongst the gods, but only by looking at their feet. She wanted to pick Baldur, the handsome god with pretty radiance, and pointed at a pair of gorgeous feet. Sadly, they turned out to be old Njord's (father of Freya). He is the god of the sea, and waves washed his feet clean and pretty. Skadi was then accepted into the rank of goddesses, she is the goddess of winter and snow. But this marriage had another problem. When Skadi moved into Njord's house near the sea, she missed her mountain home, whereas Njord loathed the hills. Therefore, the couple had to spend nine nights at Noatun, and nine nights at Thrymheim. Whenever Skadi went hunting on mountains with her snow-shoes, Njord was sad, he made storms at the sea.

Goddess of Lust
In Lokasenna (Loki's Wrangles, Poetic Edda), Freya was insulted by Loki as a slut. In this poem, apparently the gods learnt about the prophecy of their destruction by Loki and his children. As the result, they tried to bind the wolf Fenrir (Loki's son), and Tyr lost one arm, bitten by the wolf. The relationship between Loki and the gods became sourer than ever. At a feast where Thor was absent, Loki came in uninvited. And he started to taunt everyone. Gods and goddesses traded insults with him. First, he called Bragi (god of poetry) a sissy, "coward". Bragi was angry, and his wife Idun held him back. Loki then called Idun the "most lustful among women". Gefjon (a virgin goddesss) said Loki is just a liar. Loki countered that he knows she slept with men for a necklace. Odin jumped in and said that Loki is a unmanly guy who spent eight years milking cows. Loki fought back that Odin is even more unmanly when he studied the feminine art of witchcraft from Freya. Frigg tried to help her husband, but Loki accused her to be a slut as well, saying that she had secks with Odin's brothers (Ve and Vili). Freya then asked Loki if he went mad, and Loki claimed that she had slept with every god and elf presents at the banquet, including her brother Frei. Freya said "false is your tongue"; while Njord defended his children, only to be accused of the same (the twins were rumoured to be born by Njord's sister). Tyr said Frei is the best among gods, and Loki called him a cuckold, mocking his lost arm, and claimed that Tyr's wife tried to have a son with him. Frei is also called a pathetic wretch who had to buy his wife (Gerd) with his sword (and unarmed he would die at Ragnarok). Heimdall was taunted by Loki as a pitiful guard dog. Skadi was also called a slut as Loki claimed she slept with him before. Sif was also accused for being unfaithfulSif was also accused for being unfaithful (her lover was mentioned in Harbardsljod). Apparently, all goddesses are sluts, all gods are fools, and only Loki is great. Finally, Thor came and told Loki to "get you hence", or he would knock his head off. Loki eventually withdrew. Baldur and Hodhr were not at the feast, and it is assumed that they were dead. At the end of the poem it is said that Loki was captured by the gods afterward. It doesn't make much sense. (This poem was only found in one edition of Poetic Edda, and most of the references here are found nowhere else. Tyr's wife or Frei and Freya's secksual relationship, for example, are not indicated in any other sources).

In Hyndluljod (The Song of Hyndla, Poetic Edda), Freya rode on her battle boar to meet with the giantess Hyndla (She-Dog) to find young Ottar's pedigree so he would win his bet and get his hefty inheritance. He got Freya to help him by giving rich offerings (built her a shrine, altars, lots of sacrifices), and Freya disguised him as her golden boar to go on the journey. When they first met Hyndla, she realized that the boar was Ottar in disguise, and accused Freya to have brought her lover with her. Unless Ottar is another name of Odr, it is most unlikely that they are lovers, and there is no other reference of this. In the poem, Hyndla also insulted Freya as a slut when the goddess threatened to fry her if she is not to "hurry up and give Ottar the memory-beer". Hyndla called Freya a "she-goat" and told her to "run out in the night to Odr who loves her ever, and many have crawled under her apron". About the memory-beer, after Hyndla had told a long long list of Ottar's ancestors, Freya further requested the giantess to give this memory potion to Ottar so he would be able to remember it all. Hyndla refused, and Freya used her magics to surround Hyndla's cave with fire, hence the heaps of insults from the She-Dog. The evil giantess eventually gave the memory potion, but did not forget to curse it. Freya neutralised the curse with ease, though. (This poem basically just gives a list of names of heroes as Ottar's ancestors).

And then, there was the unoriginal, yet infamous tale of Brisingamen. This tale was in a Christian story (written in 15th century) called Sörla þáttr: Freya in this story is not a goddess, just a mere human. She is an Asian, and is the favourite concubine of Odin, King of the Asialand. When she wanted to buy a necklace from four dwarves (Alfrigg, Dwalin, Berling, and Grerr), they wanted a night with her for each of them in exchange. She consented, but a guy called Loki somehow knew it and came to tell Odin. Odin was very angry, and told Loki to steal the necklace, or never return again. Loki was scared. He turned into a fly to get into Freya's chamber, and then a flea to get the necklace. When Freya found her necklace missing, she came to ask Odin. King Odin said he knew about her prostitution, and would only return it if she would put an evil spell on some kings so that they would have to fight and kill others again and again in an eternal war. And this curse could only be broken by the arrival of a great Christian King. (Well, clearly an anti-pagan work to humiliate pagan deities and praise Christianity. The name of the necklace was never mentioned in this story. Loki's robbery was partially borrowed from a real myth, Húsdrápa). Alternately, more boring and much more believable, Alberich gave the necklace Brisingamen to Freya.

Freya in Der Ring des Nibelungen
If you have seen some pictures of Freya illustrated under an apple tree, or being dragged away by two Jotuns while surfing for Norse Mythology, those are from "Der Ring des Nibelungen". In the myths, Freya was never caught by anyone as she is a warrior goddess and a poweful magican.

Richard Wagner (1813-1883) is a German writter, composer, and conductor. He wrote a masssive opera called "Der Ring des Nibelungen" (The Ring of the Nibelung). It was based mostly on Norse and Germanic Mythology, Nibelungenlied (Song of the Niberlungs), and Volsunga Saga. This four-opera cycle includes:

- Das Rheingold (The Rhinegold, 1854)

- Die Walkure (The Valkyries, 1856)

- Siegfried (The tale of Siegfried, 1871)

- Gotterdammerung (Twilight of the Gods, 1874)

Siegfried is the hero of Nibelungenlied (Sigurd in the Volsunga Saga) who wooed princess Brunhild (Brynhild) for King Gunther (Gunna). Brunhild was one of the Valkyries.

Gotterdammerung is the term for Ragnarok in Germanic Mythology.

[Das Rheingold] The story starts with the dwarf Alberich of Niberlung. He found some pretty maidens swimming in the Rhine river, and lustily chased after them. He then saw a pile of gold, and the Rhinemaidens teased him that if he swears to forsake all love, he will be able to forge a mighty ring from those Rhinegolds. Alberich quickly swore, stole the gold and ran away, leaving the dumbfounded maidens behind.

On Asgard, Odin hired two giants (Fafnir and Fasolt) to build him a citadel. Following Loki's ill advice, he promised them the goddess Freya as a reward. When the citadel was completed, the two giants came to get their payment: fair Freya. The poor goddess then fled to Odin and Frigg, seeking for protection. Thor and Frei also came to protect Freya. Odin waited for Loki to come and find some sly way outta the nasty situation, but he was no where to be seen. As Thor and the giants were about to fight, Loki finally arrived. The gods were very angry with him, but he had an idea: Loki told the giants about Alberich, and all the enormous treasures he gained by the power of the ring. The giants loathed Alberich, they agreed to take the treasures instead. But they took Freya away as a hostage and demanded their treasures to be delivered before the sun set. As Freya often gives the gods the golden apples that bestowed them eternal youth, no Freya: no apples, no apples: lots of wrinkles. Odin had to go with Loki to steal Alberich's treasures before sunset, or he would have more wrinkles than he already had.

Elsewhere, Alberich had his men forge a magical helm called Tarnhelm. With it, one can change shape, become invisible, and teleport. When Odin and Loki came, Alberich boasted about his powers. He transformed into a frightening big dragon. Loki was scared and asked if he can turn into something smaller. Alberich then turned into a frog, and Odin immediately caught him. Odin then demanded Alberich's treasures as a ransom. Alberich had to summon the Niberlungs, and they piled all of his treasures there. Loki also took the Tarnhelm. Yet that's not all, Odin did not forget to rob Alberich's ring as well. Furious, the dwarf cursed the ring so that anyone who wears it will be enslaved and doomed by the ring, hated by numerous people who covet it. (Sounds familiar? Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings were heavily influenced by Norse and Germanic Mythology, hence elves, dwarves, trolls, rings, etc. Dungeons & Dragons too).

Anyway, Odin and Loki quickly returned to Asgard with Alberich's treasures. Soon the sun was about to set, the two giants came back with Freya. They let her stand there, and demanded the treasures to fully cover her. Odin then piled all Alberich's treasures on Freya. All golds and jewels were put on her, but her blonde hair could still be seen. Odin had to put the Tarnhelm on her head as well. But Fafnir claimed that he can still see Freya's blue eyes. He wanted the ring on Odin's hand too. Odin refused. The giants said the deal was off, and were about to take Freya away. At that moment, an old woman appeared to tell Odin about the curse of the ring, and about the prophecy of Gotterdammerung (Ragnarok). As the woman disappeared, Odin grudgingly gave the ring to the two giants. Finally Freya was freed, and the gods were going to cross the rainbow to return to Valhalla. Right away, the giants fought over how to divide the treasures. Fafnir killed Fasolt, and he got all the treasures for himself. Back to the river Rhine, the maidens were still mourning their lost gold. Their sobs could even be heard from afar. Odin told Loki to tell them to be silent, but the maidens would not stop. Too much for one day, the gods ignored them and entered Valhalla. [End of Das Rheingold]

[Die Walkure] ...

Freya as goddess of war
Both Odin and Freya, the deities who shared with each other the souls of the fallen, are associated with many different jobs. As we all know, Germanic people were warlike. Thus, Odin, who was originally a god of war, probably gained strength and popularity not long before the Viking period, became the chief god, and was also associated with learning, wisdom, poetry, and magic. Other gods like Njord, Heimdall, Ull became minor figures. Ull wasn't even mentioned much in the written records (and was made Thor's foster son) although he was a major god, and had a very large cult.

About why Freya has such a huge privilege as receiver of half the fallen, one of the reason is that economy was based mostly on farming, and more men are always needed. It's no doubt that Freya, who was originally worshipped as a fertility goddess, also had particular importance (crops and birthrate). Hence later she was associated with war as well and became receiver of half the fallen. It's also a share of power between the Æsir and Vanir. Odin and the Æsir may represent the germanic people who immigrated to Scandinavia around 2nd century, and the Vanir are the people who already settled there. There were wars, but later a peace treaty was made, and they started to live together. This war may also represent the spread of a new cult into the land of an old cult (either Æsir or Vanir). Leader of the winning party, Odin, became the chief, and Heimdall, Njord, Ull became lesser deities. But from then, the god of war also shared part of his powers with the Vanir, and half of the fallen given to Freya, who is interested in heroic deeds as well. This represents the share of powers between the two peoples and cults.

It is a probability that Frigg was the one who receives half of the fallen, as the Queen of the gods, but she is a good wife who sits behind her husband and raises the children. It doesn't fit her, and there's no reason why husband and wife should divide the souls either. Furthermore, if it was Frigg, not Freya, who rides into battles together with the Valkyries, the heroes would be scared to death and run away in the other direction. Middle-aged moms shouldn't go to war after all. The fallen heroes certainly prefer beautiful young maidens like Freya and the Valkyries to guide them to heaven.

It also could be a mistake where Frigg and Freya was confused, and it was Frigg who receives the souls of heroes on her husband's behalf when he is away, but it's unlikely, because the Valkyries do the job even when Odin is present, and Freya's realm (Field of the men arrayed in battles) and hall (Hall of Seats) both suggest that she is a war goddess who receives and decides where her warriors will sit. Freya's precious necklace is originally a symbol of fertility and wealth, but it's also a symbol of time, the cycle of the year and sunfire. Brisingamen was also associated with war, said to bring victory to whichever side the great goddess favours. Freya's golden-bristled battle boar is a symbol of fertility (pig), wealth (gold), and also war (boar). Her cats can be the symbol of different meanings: they represent sly fondling, cuddles (love), they are familiars of witches (magic), but as large as they are to pull a chariot, they are also very close to lions (war).

Freya is portrayed as a weeping goddess whose tears are of the purest gold and amber (wealth), because her consort, Odr (or Odin), often went away on long journeys. This image apparently represents Norse women whose husbands went to war or trade. We know that due to harsh environments and lengthy seaborne invasion campaigns, Norse men were often away from home for extended periods. And so, Norse women take charge of the house and family, more often than women anywhere else in Europe. Freya is indeed the symbol of noble women who enjoy high social status and much power as well as responsibility while their husbands are away. As the foremost goddess, the roles of Freya and Odr were reversed. The poor god's importance was reduced into nothing but a mere name. And unlike other goddesses who stay behind her husbands' shadows, Freya actually overshadowed her husband. Independent and free, she is a divine Queen who takes care of all domestic affairs, demonstrated through the fact that she decides where the slain heroes shall sit in her hall.

The ninth hall is Folkvang, where fair Freya decrees

Where her warriors shall sit

Half of the fallen belong to her

Half belong to Odin

Btw, this is the order of the twelve realms of the gods as written in the Grimnismol (The Ballad of Grimnir, Poetic Edda), arranged by F. Magnussen:

Freya's is number nine.

1. Ydalir - Ull: Sagittarius / November (Ninth month)

2. Alfheim - Frei: Capricorn / Decemcer (Tenth month)

3. Valaskjolf - Vali/Odin: Aquarius / January (Month of Janus)

4. Sokkvabekk - Saga: Pisces / February (Month of festivals)

5. Gladsheim - Odin: Aries / March (Month of Mars)

6. Thrymheim - Skadi: Taurus / April (Month of Aphrodite)

7. Breidablik - Baldur: Gemini / May (Month of Maia)

8. Himinbjorg - Heimdall: Cancer / June (Month of Juno)

9. Folkvang - Freya: Leo / July (Month of Julius Caesar)

10. Glitnir - Forseti: Virgo / August (Month of Augustus)

11. Noatun - Njord: Libra / September (Seventh month)

12. Vidiland - Vidar: Scorpio / October (Eighth month)

Freya's character is so unclear
Since most things known about Norse and Germanic mythology are only preserved in some tales compiled by Christian historians in Iceland, Freya's character is confusing.

Freya and Frigg are often be confused with each other. There possibly was only Frigg in early germanic mythology, and Freya joined the gang later together with her father and brother. Frigg and Freya were often mistaken to each other in written records becaue of their names, and their husband's name (Odin and Odr). But they are different:

- Frigg's name means "wife", Freya's name means "lady, woman"

- Frigg is Æsir, Freya is Vanir

- They are of different ages, Frigg can't be Frei's twin sister, nor Freya can be Baldur's mom

- They have different jobs, different palaces

However, they do have some similarities (both are foremost of the goddesses, both were assigned Brisingamen and feathered dress, both were portrayed as weeping goddesses). Frigg and Freya are either two goddesses whose characteristics were mixed with each other's, or originally one and the same. Some even argue that Frigg, Freya, and Idun/Hnoss are just one goddess represented at three different ages.

Nothing is known about Freya's husband, Odr. In some writings, Freya is Odin's wife and Odin is paired with Freya instead of Frigg. There is a possibility that Freya didn't have a husband. But then, she was sometimes confused with Frigg and so, often mistakenly paired with Odin. Hence her husband Odr was just a doublet of Odin. Subsequently, her two daughters Hnoss and Gersemi (whose names suggest "wealth") were invented, or they were changed from her subordinates to children. All three of them are just mere names. That part of Freya was then transfered to a minor, newly invented figure called Gefjon, derived from Gefn, one of her aliases. If that was the case, Freya as the weeping goddess must have been confused with Frigg, who wept when her son and husband died, or Freya wept because of other reasons.

Freya might also be originally the goddess who tends the golden apple garden, as it is a suitable job for a fertility goddess, but the role was later given to another minor figure, Idun. Lokasenna included Bragi, one of the newest Norse gods (who is perhaps Bragi Boddason, a skald who was glorified), and Idun is just a newly made goddess, a clone of Freya. Both Bragi and his wife Idun barely appear in Elder Edda, but became important later on.

Freya was also linked with Gollveig (Gold-Might, an evil witch who was smitten, burnt multiple times by the gods), but this is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Apparently, Christians wanted to link anything "evil", "lustful", "witch" to Freya because she is a magician. Do you know what pious christian people and witch-hunters of 12th and 13th century say when they accuse someone as a witch? "ARGH!! A WITCH!! SHE'S A WITCH!! KILL HER!! BURN HER ON STAKES!!" Pope Innocent IV allowed to use tortures in all sorcery cases. Since they can't burn Freya on stakes, they made Seid "evil diabolical secks magic". Followers of the Vanir cult caused Christians the most problems in forced conversions, and many practitioners of Seid were killed during the Christianisation period in Scandinavia.

What is mythology?
First, what's mythology? The word "mythology" was derived from the Greek word "muthos" (speech) -> Latin "mythus" -> French "mythe" / English "myth". "Myths" are ancient stories about supernatural beings or heroes, created to explain the origin of the world (Cosmogony), or natural phenomena. Three most common types of myths are:

- Sagas: fictional stories based on historical events (for example, Nibelungenlied)

- Legends: fictional stories based on historical persons or places (for example, the Arthurian Legend)

- Folktales: purely fictional stories made up for entertainment only (there are lots of these)

The Norse mythology we now read as a source of entertainment was originally the pagan religious beliefs of Norse people. It contains both Cosmogony, and later, Folktales about the gods.

What is Norse mythology?
The original Norse beliefs were orally passed down, and now they are long lost. The "Norse mythology" we know and discuss nowadays are just based on the Eddas, two collections of tales about Norse deities, written during 9-12th and 13th century in Iceland. Beside Eddas, there are some other materials, like later sagas, some old mythological writings, or records by Saxo Grammaticus and Adam of Bremen.

However, just like how most records about Norsemen were written by their bitter enemies and victims, most records about Norse deities were also written down by their enemies: Christians. Just like Norsemen who were held in absolute horor as devilish blond marauders who raided and burnt even churches without any hesitations (infact, they loved to raid churches because churches were very wealthy and better yet, defenseless), Christians saw the pagan Norse deities as devils.

"Pagan" is a offensive term to call pre-christian beliefs, those which do not recognize the only God in the Bible (Christianity), Torah (Judaism), or Koran (Islam). Around 4th and 5th century, Christianity was widespread around Mediterranean sea. However, Scandinavia was a special case. Ice Ages lasted much longer there, and when peoples of Europe had been christianised for centuries, Norse peope were still worshipping their pagan deities. When Christianity finally arrived (around 825), christian missionaries tried to make fool of the Norse pagan deities by making up silly tales about them and calling them devils and demons. But these attempts were of little success, until the Scandinavian Kings accepted Christianity and forced conversions were carried out.

Iceland was merely a settlement of Norwegian Vikings from 9th century, and they already accepted Christianity around the year of 1000. Within such a short period, I doubt that Icelandic people held too much respect to Norse deities. These are some example about Christians and Freya: When Hjalti Skegjason (an Icelander) was newly converted to Christianity, he called Freya a b*tch in his newly composed song to show his contempt for the pagan gods (whom his ancestors worshipped). And a guy called Hallfred Vandradaskald named Freya amongst the major pagan deities whom he had forsaken for Jesus Christ to display his piety toward Christianity.

It's kind of sad to say this: the primary sources we have about Norse and Germanic Mythology are not very reliable.

Who is Snorri Sturluson?
Poetic Edda, or Elder Edda was compiled by some christian clerics (who else? lowly people were all illiterate) from around 9th to 12th century. It includes some poems about the gods, and many poems about heroes. Let's put the tales of heroes aside. There's no way to know who composed these poems, or their compiler (it was once thought to be Saemund Sigfusson, a cleric). Not only the authors are unknown, when and where they came from is also just a guess. They were, however, certainly written down in Iceland in 12th century by some Christian historians.

Prose Edda, or Younger Edda, was made by Snorri Sturluson (1179-1241), an Icelandic Christian politician and historian. Snorri had a profitable marriage, and lived comfortably in a big estate, making poems and digging up old folklores for fun. He was also a famed law-speaker, and was caught up in the struggles of people who plotted to give Iceland to King Haakon IV of Norway. His political career failed, though, as he eventually was assassinated by the shrewd Haakon. Snorri was one of the most recognised Icelandic historians and Prose Edda is the most important source about Norse Mythology.

Eventhough Snorri shouldn't have made up tales about the old Norse gods, he was very susceptible to have written down the already altered myths. Snorri doesn't think of Norse deities as devils, but he sees them as mere humans. If you read Prose Edda, you'll see that the opening is a lengthy rant about how God (Christian God) created the world, and how Odin is merely a human who gained some powers in northen land. That was a way to avoid punishments from the Church.

The anti-pagan lies
Now, if I bash Snorri Sturluson and Eddas as a whole, people will get mad. Although Snorri altered the mythology quite a bit by making the gods normal humans (or else he could be hanged), he actually did from little to nothing to harm goddess Freya. It's Lokasenna (the poem that purposely insults many Norse deities), Hyndluljod, and the Brisingamen tale in Sörla þáttr that created the image of Freya as a slut.

As Poetic Edda is a large collection of poems and all of these poems are of undetermined origin and time. There are some that contain great knowledges, while some are anti-pagan lies. Voluspo (The Wise Woman's Prophecy) and Grimnismol (The Ballad of Grimnir) are examples of the former, Lokasenna (Loki's Wrangles) is an example of the later.

Lokasenna
All things we know about creation myths (Cosmogony), and the final destruction of the gods (Ragnarok) are from Voluspo, whereas names of the gods and descriptions of their realms are from Grimnismol. Lokasenna, however, was a deliberate work to ridicule and humiliate many Norse deities using Loki's foul mouth. The present of the god Bragi (a glorified bard) means it was made somewhere after 10th century, i.e. whether it was composed in or outside of Iceland, it was definitely made by a Christian.

In Lokasenna, the author clearly doesn't respect the Norse deities at all, and the sole purpose of the whole poem is to insult them. Many goddesses were insulted as sluts, gods as cuckolds. They were very angry, yet as the poem described, failed to defend themselves. Goddesses accused to be lustful and unfaithful: Idun, Gefjon, Frigg, Freya, Skadi, Sif, and Tyr's wife (unknown). Not to count Nana who was supposedly dead in this poem, those are all of the major goddesses. Then naturally Bragi, Odin, Odr, Njord, Thor, and Tyr are pitiful cuckolds. The only way to explain this is to say that infidelity was a social norn among the gods, which is exactly what Christian missionaries wanted to spread. "MY 2 CENTS: The funny thing is, if infidelity is a social norn, why is it used as an insult?? Why do people care to argue if adultery is a social norn??"

According to Snorri, Freya was a model of fidelity, she cried red tears for her husband when he's away, and went on journeys in search for him. But in this poem, Loki claimed: "of all the gods and elves present at the banquet, each has been her lover". Freya said Loki is a liar, and then Loki added that "she is an evil witch and used her magic to entice her own brother Frei to bed".


 * Freya: (defending Frigg)

Mad art thou, Loki?

in recounting

thy foul misdeeds.

Frigg, I believe

knows all that happens

although she says it not.

Be thou silent, Freya!
 * Loki:

I know thee full well

thou art not free from vices:

of the Æsir and the Alfar (elf)

that are herein

each has been thy paramour.

False is thy tongue
 * Freya:

Henceforth it will I think

prate no good to thee.

Wroth with thee are the Æsir

and the Asynjur (goddesses)

Sad shalt thou home depart.

Be silent, Freya!
 * Loki:

Thou art a sorceress

and with much evil blended

since against thy brother thou

the gentle powers excited.

And then, Freya what didst thou do?

(Njord stepped in here)

Freya is a skilled magician who taught the Æsir the art of witchcraft (Seid in Old Norse). Some certain christian people in 12th century who were very sensitive to the word "witch" thinking that it's related to Satan immediately made it "diabolical evil secks magic to seduce men". Seid was popular and well practised by Norse men and women (even Odin was a pratitioner). Here Loki spoke with the obvious tongue of a Christian who loathes "magic", "witches", "secksual freedom" (??). In Ynglinga Saga, it was mentioned that the twins were born by Njord's sister (we don't even know who this sister is), and such unions were accepted among the Vanir. However, it was forbidden in the Æsir, and Freya and Frei's secksual relationship is found nowhere except in Loki's crafty mouth.

"MY 2 CENTS": Sophus Bugge maintains that the Eddic poems were written by Christians outside of Scandinavia, and were brought into Iceland via England. There were evidently heavy influence of Latin and Christianity. Freyja in the Eddic poems is surprisingly similar to Venus or Aphrodite. The death and rebirth of Baldur is surprisingly like Jesus's. The burning of Gullveig is clearly a Christian tradition of burning witches.

Hyndluljod
Hyndluljod (The Song of Hyndla) is not quite a lie, but to put it bluntly, a meaningless work. It just used Freya to name a list of various heroes. The poem does not contribute anything to the mythology, and does not fit in the collection either. It does contain some fragments which was called "the short Voluspo", though. In this poem, a certain young man called Ottar was said to be very devoted to the goddesses (we know that Frigg and Freya were especially worshipped). He built a rock shrine, and gave many many sacrifices. So, Freya answered his prayers and went to help him to find his pedigree. Freya disguised Ottar as her boar, and came to meet Hyndla (She-Dog), a giantess. Hyndla realised that the boar is Ottar, and accused Freya to have brought along her lover. But it's clear that Ottar is just a protege of Freya. Hyndla then gave out an extremely long list of heroes as Ottar's ancestors (and that's the purpose of this poem). Then, Freya was afraid that Ottar wouldn't be able to remember that long list, she requested the giantess to give a memory potion. Hyndla refused, and Freya encircled the cave and wood with flames. Hyndla insulted Freya:

Hence shalt thou fare for fain would I sleep
 * Hyndla:

From me thou gettest few more favors

My noble one, out in the night thou leapest

As Heidrun goes the goats among

To Odr didst thou run who loved thee ever

And many under thy girdle have crawled

My noble one, out in the night thou leapest

As Heidrun goes the goats among

Around the giantess flames shall I raise
 * Freya:

So that forth unburned thou mayst not fare

Flames I see burning, the earth is on fire
 * Hyndla:

And each for his life the price must lose

Bring then to Ottar's hand the cup

Of venom full for an evil fate

Thine evil words shall work no ill
 * Freya:

Though giantess, bitter thy baleful threats

A drink full fair shall Ottar find

Of all the gods the favors I get

Well, the poem was some broken parts clumsily put together in a later edition of Elder Edda in around 1400, and someone might have inserted some lines into the poem here and there. The last two lines of the second stanza here were repeated by mistake (my noble one...), and two lines of the following stanza were missing. Four lines were lost. Heidrun is the name of the she-goat who stands by Valhalla. Here Hyndla used that to insult Freya as a slut. What Hyndla meant is: "I must sleep now, get yourself out of here, slut, and run to Odr or any of your many lovers". Other than Loki's lies in Lokasenna, there's nothing more in the myths to reinforce this idea.

"Freya and the dwarves"
The Brisingamen tale wasn't written in Eddas or any real Norse myths, but is now very popular for some obvious reasons. If there are doubts about Lokasenna and Hyndluljod's origin, Sörla þáttr is obviously an anti-pagan lie. It's really, really lame in many ways, and is clearly unoriginal.

- Firstly, the same old Freya/Frigg confusion: it is unknown if Brisingamen is Freya's or Frigg's. In Thrymskvitha, the necklace is Freya's, but in other mythological writings, it is Frigg's. And Freya refused Thrymr, who was the richest guy at that time and had all treasures in the world, then why for a necklace...?

- Secondly, as Hyndluljod described, Freya is a warrior goddess, a powerful witch, even a giantess like Hyndla feared her. She shouldn't be interested in filthy dwarves, and could either burn the dwarves alive or manipulate them to give her the necklace (that is if they dared to demand such a price).

- Thirdly, each of the myths has a meaning. For example, the story of Thrymr stealing Thor's hammer explained why there are times in the year when thunderstorms do not appear, the marriage of Njord told why storms and waves created at the sea, the binding of Fenrir was to explain why women do not have beard, rocks do not have roots, cats do not make sounds when they walk, etc. The Brisingamen tale clearly does not have any meanings but to humiliate Freya and Odin.

- Fourthly, to make it like reality, if Freya or Frigg obtained the necklace by sleeping with four filthy dwarves (dwarves emerged like maggots from the blood of Ymir), and everyone knew that, how would she still shamelessly walk around wearing it, or how could she still be "most beloved" at all? Now, it wasn't real. People invented it. Then, why would Norsemen humiliate their foremost goddess, their honoured receiver of half the slain by inventing that story? (again, dwarves are maggots) Only people who believed in another God could make up a story like that.

- Fifthly, if there was a tale like that, it could be the perfect thing for Loki to use to insult Freya in Lokasenna (Loki of all people told Odin). But in the poem, Loki didn't even mention that. It's obvious that the tale of "Freya and four dwarves" was invented even long after the poem Lokasenna or Prose Edda (i.e. by some christians).

- Finally, a very similar story was found in Loki's insults for Gefjon in Lokasenna. Gefjon is just a minor goddess, most likely derived from Freya's name Gefn (Giver). This is where the lie of Brisingamen came from:

In Prose Edda and Húsdrápa, Loki once robbed Brisingamen from Freya, and the goddess had to ask Heimdall for help. Heimdall won the fight with Loki and returned the necklace to Freya. Sörla þáttr blatantly stole this myth, removed Heimdall and put in Odin. It also stole the tale about goddess Gefjon sleeping with men for a necklace in Lokasenna, and changed Gefjon to Freya. Then the two altered tales were mixed together, and used as a pathetic excuse to retell the wars (the same wars were recorded before, but without Freya). Sörla þáttr was in a book compiled by a bishop in 15th century. It's clearly a deliberate work to bash pagan deities and praise Christianity. It tried hard to blame pagan deities for causing the bloody wars (Freya's immorality and Odin's evil started the wars), and at the end of the story, the arrival of Christianity broke the pagan deities' evil curse and brought peace to the land. And this anti-pagan story is the source of "Freya slept with four dwarves to get Brisingamen" nowadays. No smart mythologists would count this medieval christian story in Norse Mythology, but some people found it entertaining, and they made up many different versions of this tale based on what written in Sörla þáttr. All these bull****s can be recognised easily as they are very detailed, and have modern tongues. Original myths were written in verse, or short and old-styled prose.

Different cheap later versions of "Brisingamen tale":

Odin made Freya start wars in Midgard in exchange for the necklace. (This is kinda lame because Freya never starts any wars in original myths, she just collects the souls of dead heroes.)

Odin was angry, he told Loki to destroy the necklace, but Heimdall helped Freya to take it back. (How could Heimdall dare to defy Odin and help taking back a "symbol of lust"?)

Odin was lustful, he demanded a night with Freya too in exchange for the necklace, but Heimdall helped Freya to take it back. (Again, why would Heimdall defy Odin to help Freya?)

Odin was lustful, he demanded a night with Freya too in exchange for the necklace, but Freya rejected him. Odin later told Freya to start wars in Midgard instead. (Again, in the myths, she was said to be the most kindly disposed to mankind.)

Loki told Odr about the cheating instead (Odr never appeared in any real myths); and Odr was angry, he divorced Freya, for this she cried. (Sounds 20th-century-cheap-soap-opera-esque.)

If Lokasenna and Sörla þáttr stuffs were written by the real pagan Norsemen before or in the Viking period, I would accept it as "Norsemen were barbaric, and they were obsessed about secks, so they made their goddesses licentious". But they were written by some unknown naughty Christians, so I have all the rights to doubt.

Nowadays, we know that the earth is blue and there is no God. Nobody believes in those stuffs anymore. However, old germanic tribes didn't make up their gods and goddesses for fun. Vikings bravely fought and died in battles because they really believe that they would go to heaven, to Odin and Freya instead of a boring afterlife in Hel. It was no joke, really, and people were even sacrificed at rituals. In a temple at Olvusvatn in Iceland sat the statues of Thor and Frei, and directly opposite them are statues of Frigg and Freya. Thor was the most popular god (especially amongst peasants), even more popular than Odin, and his statues were found in many shrines. People didn't create the gods to make fun of them. They tried to explain the world, natural phenomena, and seriously worshipped their deities.

Forces of nature: Thunder -> Thor, Light and darkness -> Baldur and Hodr, Rainbow -> Heimdall, Sea and waves -> Njord, Chaos, Earthquake -> Loki, Eclipse -> Fenrir's sons

Daily life: Hunting -> Ull, Farming and Birth -> Frei and Freya, War and Battle -> Odin/Freya and Tyr, Nutritious delicious Apples (good for your health) -> Idun/Freya, Death -> Hel

These deities were feared, honoured, and prayed to. People feared thunder, honoured the creator, prayed for crops and safe births. The gods and goddesses were not created as a source of fun to laugh at. Only people who don't believe in these deities could make up silly tales about them. And Christians of the 12th and 13th century had all the reasons to do it. Did Norsemen worship their deities for being lustful and funny? Did they create secks and debauchery symbols, not a symbol of fertility, war? Did they make up those stories to encourage their wives to go cheat on them while they are away from home? No. No. No. If infidelity was widely accepted, then what was the purpose of creating goddesses who protect love, marriages and punish those who break the vows of lovers? (These are Freya's attendants). Now it's worth saying this: at anytime and anywhere on this planet, it's kinda hard to require fidelity from men (especially at the old times when they could die soon in battles, and have many slaves). But women are still always expected to take care of the house and raise the kids (of course, their husband's kids, not the-guy-next-door's). If not, it would be like pigs, and what's marriage for? You may argue that there are sources saying Vikings were very loose in secksuality. But we all know that most records and chronicles about Vikings were written by their bitter enemies and victims who considered them "devilish blond raiders" and tried to make them look barbaric. If you read Eddas, you will see that calling a woman a "slut" was the favourite insult. Then being lustful was certainly not considered the best trait of women.

Did you ever wonder why Loki, who lives among the gods, is not an Æsir or Vanir? Because Norsemen didn't want the principle of chaos and evil to be a real god (Loki mainly plays the role of a liar, cheater, robber, murderer). We now read these things for fun, and consider them silly tales, but to Norse and Germanic people, it was a religion, a belief that many of them fought and died bravely believing it. They were not tales to tell Norse kids at night and laugh at, nor were they Aesop's fables or moral lessons.

Random Rants about the Internet
Random Rants start.

I have read many articles on the net about Freya (though some of them are so short that calling them articles is perhaps an insult for the word). Anyway, in most of them, Freya is said to be the goddess of Lust and Secksuality. They said "she went with many gods, giants, elves, humans, dwarves", "has numerous lovers", "has unbridled secksuality", etc. Some of them don't even know that Freya is receiver of half the fallen. It's not funny at all. The ignorant masses are very interested in scandals, so it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out why the outrageously scandalous anti-pagan lie of Brisingamen had much influence over centuries became the focused point of any articles about Freya you can find on the net nowadays. This may sound rude, but some of these people don't even know what they are talking about. There is no such things written in the myths, I will try to tell you where those things they wrote came from.

The Brisingamen tale was in Sörla þáttr, a deliberate later work to praise the arrival of Christianity and bash pagan deities. It was written long after the christianisation and does not belong to Norse myths, nor it is about the gods. Read it yourself.

CHAPTER I Of Freyia and the dwarfs

East of Vanaquisl in Asia was the land called Asialand or Asiahome, but the folk that dwelt there was called Æsir, and their chief town was Asgard. Odin was the name of the king thereof, and therein was a right holy place of sacrifice. Niord and Frey made Temple priests thereover; but the daughter of Niord was Freyia, and she was fellow to Odin and his concubine. Now there were certain men in Asia, whereof one was called Alfrigg, the second Dwalin, the third Berling, the fourth Grerr: these had their abode but a little space from the King's hall, and were men so wise in craftsmanship, that they laid skilful hand on all matters; and such-like men as they were did men call dwarfs. In a rock was their dwelling, and in that day they mingled more with menfolk than as now they do. Odin loved Freya full score, and withal she was the fairest woman of that day: she had a bower that was both fair and strong; insomuch, say men, that if the door were shut to, none might come into the bower aforesaid without the will of Freyia. Now on a day went Freyia afoot by that rock of the dwarfs, and it lay open: therein were the dwarfs a-smithying a golden collar, and the work was at point to be done: fair seemed that collar to Freyia, and fair seemed Freyia to the dwarfs. Now would Freyia buy the collar of them, and bade them in return for it silver and gold, and other good things. They said they lacked not money, yet that each of them would sell his share of the collar for this thing, and nought else, that she should lie a night by each of them: wherefore, whether she liked it better or worse, on such wise did she strike the bargain with them; and so the four nights being outworn, and all conditions fulfilled, they delivered the collar to Freyia; and she went home to her bower, and held her peace hereof, as if nought had befallen.

CHAPTER II Of the stealing of Freyia's collar, and how she may have it again

There was a man called Farbauti, which carl had to wife a carline called Laufey; she was both slim and slender, therefore was she called Needle. One child had these, a son called Loki; nought great of growth was he, but betimes shameless of tongue and nimble in gait; over all men had he that craft which is called cunning; guileful was he from his youth up, therefore was he called Loki the Sly. He betook himself to Odin at Asgard and became his man. Ever had Odin a good word for him, whatsoever he turned to; yet withal he oft laid heavy labours upon him, which forsooth he turned out of hand better than any man looked for: moreover, he knew wellnigh all things that befell, and told all he knew to Odin. So tells the tale that Loki knew how that Freyia had gotten the collar, yea and what she had given for it; so he told Odin thereof, and when Odin heard of it he bade Loki get the collar and bring it to him. Loki said it was not a likely business, because no man might come into Freyia's bower without the will of her; but Odin bade him go his ways and not come back before he had gotten the collar. Then Loki turned away howling, and most of men were glad thereof whenas Loki throve nought. But Loki went to Freyia's bower, and it was locked; he strove to come in, and might not; and cold it was without, so that he fast began to grow a-cold. So he turned himself into a fly, and fluttered about all the locks and the joints, and found no hole therein whereby he might come in, till up by the gable-top he found a hole, yet no bigger than one might thrust a needle through; none the less he wriggled in thereby. So when he was come in he peered all about to see if any waked, but soon he got to see that all were asleep in the bower. Then in he goeth unto Freyia's bed, and sees that she hath the collar on her with the clasp turned downward. Thereon Loki changed himself into a flea, and sat on Freyia's cheek, and stung her so that she woke and turned about, and then fell asleep again. Then Loki drew from off him his flea's shape, and undid the collar, and opened the bower, and gat him gone to Odin therewith. Next morn awoke Freyia and saw that the doors were open, yet unbroken, and that the goodly collar was gone. She deemed she knew what guile had wrought it, so she goeth into the hall when she is clad, and cometh before Odin the king, and speaketh to him of the evil he has let be wrought against her in the stealing of that dear thing, and biddeth him give her back her jewel. Odin says that in such wise hath she gotten it, that never again shall she have it. "Unless forsooth thou bring to pass, that two kings, each served of twenty kings, fall to strife, and fight under such weird and spell, that they no sooner fall adown than they stand up again and fight on: always unless some christened man be so bold of heart, and the fate and fortune of his lord be so great, that he shall dare go into the battle, and smite with weapons these men: and so first shall their toil come to an end, to whatsoever lord it shall befall to loose them from the pine and trouble of their fell deeds." Hereto said Freyia yea, and gat her collar again.

CHAPTER III Of King Erling, and Sorli his son

In those days, when four-and-twenty winters were worn away from the death of Peace-Frodi, a king ruled over the Uplands in Norway called Erling. He had a queen and two sons; Sorli the Strong the elder, and Erlend the younger: hopeful were they both, but Sorli was the stronger. They fell to warfare so soon as they were of age thereto; they fought with the viking Sindri, son of Sveigr, the son of Haki, the sea-king, at the Elfskerries; and there fell the viking Sindri and all his folk; and there also fell Erlend Erlingson. Thereafter Sorli sailed into the East-salt-sea, and harried there, and did so many doughty deeds that late it were ere all were written down.

CHAPTER IV Sorli slayeth King Halfdan

There was a king hight Halfdan, who ruled over Denmark, and abode in a stead called Roi's-well; he had to wife Hvedna the old, and their sons were Hogni and Hakon, men peerless of growth and might, and all prowess: they betook them to warfare so soon as they were come to man's estate. Now cometh the tale on Sorli again, for on an autumn-tide he sailed to Denmark. King Halfdan was minded as at this time to go to an assembly of the kings; he was well stricken in years when these things betid. He had a dragon so good that never was such another ship in all Norway for strength's sake, and all craftsmanship. Now was this ship lying moored in the haven, but King Halfdan was a-land and had let brew his farewell drink. But when Sorli saw the dragon, so great covetise ran into his heart that he must needs have her: and forsooth, as most men say, no ship so goodly hath been in the Northlands, but it were the dragon Ellida, or Gnod, or the Long Worm...

... Whatever.

Anyhow, from this anti-pagan story, people made it "an original tale", and put "Freya and the dwarves" at the center of any articles about her. Lame. From Loki's lies in Lokasenna: "Of the Æsir and the Alfar (elf) that are herein, each has been thy lover", people changed it to "Freya went with many gods, giants, elves, humans, dwaves." Lame. They took Loki's lie about the insect relationship of Frei and Freya very very seriously and made it a "fact". Lame. And from Hyndla's insults in Hyndluljod: "run out, she-goat, to Odr who loves thee ever, and many who have crawled under thy apron", people interpreted that she had secks with anyone who desired her while searching for her husband. Lame.

The real problem is that these people rarely cite any sources whatsover for what they wrote on their websites. Some may have read the myths and taken the liberty to make the lies and insults of Loki "facts", then further expanded these "facts" in their own words. Some of these idiots may just have *heard* about it somewhere. They just feel free to write whatever they want. By doing that, they are just embarrassing themselves.

I advise that if any of you want to learn more about Norse Mythology or Norse deities, search for the real sources like Eddas and read them by yourself.

End of random rants.

Also end of article.

Freya Worshiper 06:45, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Snorri's reliability
Snorri is totally unreliable as he was a monk and an agent of the Pope, with the mandate to "make foolish these pagan gods". Froyer is the oldest of the mother gods, and the most powerful. Godess of life and death, ruler of the Valkyries, and She selected at battle who should live and who will cross the bridge of swords. A soldiers' diety if ever there was! Venerated by the Sons of Odin (Father of Fathers) and - obviously - by the Daughters of Freya She is immensely poular in Britain - a naturally pagan land!


 * ^That's exactly what Snorri wrote. What's your problems? The stories to humiliate Freya were written by other Christian priests and later, by american scholars.


 * Who told you that Snorri was a monk? He definitely was not. Neither was he an agent of the pope. And it is Snorri, who among others, tells us that Freyja gets half the dead! (Gylfaginning, chapter XXIV). Cheers Io 16:42, 23 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Hmmm. Is it common knowledge that Freya gets half the dead from the battlefield? Of course, that i never heard about it before is problably its favour :-) --Anders Törlind

No, it's not very common knowledge at all, and only a few sources refer to Freya's acquisition of the (noble) dead. I'll line up the citations for you if you'd like. sjc

The sources should probably go on to the main page. The fact i was a little sceptic about that very fact is that i've actually seen it mentioned before, always without substantiation and only in feminist revisionist publications. Sorry if i came across as suspicious of your knowledge. Great work in the article by the way! -- Anders Törlind

Found the spot where the reference to Freya getting half the dead comes from, it is from the poem Grimnismál. The boar stuff is also corroborative. sjc

By golly, I really should dig out the eddas again if i am to keep up here! :-) Off for a musing on talk:Norse Mythology --Anders Törlind

Picture?
That's Arthur Rackham's illustration of the Freyja in Wagner's Ring Cycle, showing Freyja and her Apples of Youth, something borrowed from Idunn. &mdash;Ashley Y 09:14, Apr 27, 2004 (UTC) Her apples of Youth? Those apples belong to Iðunn. --157.157.203.152 19:36, 17 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Firefox
If the category causes problems in Mozilla Firefox, you should report it as a bug rather than delete an otherwise useful feature. --Eequor 21:45, 31 May 2004 (UTC)

Moved Freya to Freyja
As there is a discussion going on about the spelling conventions of Norse Mythology, I decided to see if there would be any opposition to coordination. I moved Freya to Freyja and changed the spelling in every case. The links remain the same &mdash; Freya redirects to Freyja''. Cheers Io 16:26, 23 Jul 2004 (UTC)


 * hehe I always thought the conventional English spelling of Freya was Freya. While I am equally comfortable with Freyja, I am not at my time of life about to start writing the name of a goddess I have known all my life differently. Expect Freya to be my orthodox spelling, and change if you must. Sjc 07:53, 24 Jul 2004 (UTC)


 * I was just testing the water. I'm not about to prescribe anything to anyone. :-) Freyja veri með þér. Io 15:17, 24 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I altered the spelling for consistency. Feel free to undo, if you wish. Io 17:57, 24 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * Just out of curiosity: What is the singular of Vanir in English? In Old Norse it is pluralia tantum, so to say XX is Vanir is grammatically incorrect (to me, actually horrendous). Io 18:31, 24 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Well, Lake Van confuses things. I set Google to English and did a test which found the following counts:

Van Vanir Frey             152 Vana Vanir Frey             43 Vanir -Van -Vana Frey    1,660

I included the name "Frey" as a way of throwing out articles with the English word van and Dutch names and so forth.

A mumber of the "Vana" articles only use Vana adjectively.

So Van seems to be the normal form if you want to use a singular. But it sounds a little odd to me. A phrase such as "one of the Vanir" feels better to my English ears, which probably explains why there are so many hits for pages with the plural form only. Perhaps the form Van doesn't come naturally perhaps because the common English word van interferes. Even more so would be calling Thor an Ass. Here one almost cannot help in English rephrasing as "one of the Aesir" and accordingly "one of the Vanir" or something similar would tend to follow as parallel usage.


 * No! It is, Vanur.  "Freyr er Vanur", so: "Freyr is a Vanur and along with Njordr and Freyja are the Vanir of Ásgarð".  Something like this. Tata ;) --157.157.203.152 19:42, 17 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Jallan 18:34, 12 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Freyja and Gullveig
The article read: "However, though unlikely, it can be speculated that Gullveig was an aspect of Freya." It is not a case of "can be speculated". It is widely speculated. Some scholars, including very reputable scholars think it very likely or even obvious. Also grammatically it was not clear whether unlikely applied to "it can be speculated" or "that Gullveig was an aspect of Freya". The former is not unlikely at all, but rather a simple fact. I've no opinions either way on the other. The theory is, to me, a not unreasonable theory that could be true but lacks enough evidence to be totally convincing. I don't think it should be POV'd here as an especially unlikely speculation.

I removed the mention of Freya being a shaman, partly because the word shaman has become so overused and misused that it has become almost meaningless, and partly because it is difficult to know what exactly seiðr was. As to being a seeress or "völva", in the Hynduljod Freya brings her lover Ottar to another seeress. One knows that mythological tales are not altogether consistant, but calling Freya a "völva" seems to me to be theorizing beyond the texts, unless I am (quite possibly) forgetting about some obvious passage in which Freya is called a seeress. The article seid seems to me to be very POV in this way. I've read enough about shamanism not to know any more what anyone means by the term without careful explanation in an exact context. Too often it seems to mean any magical activity involving any sort of clairvoyance or any form of trance or both. Stick the label shamanism on something and you can pretend you've explained it. I've read enough about seiðr to also be unconvinced of exactly how it differed from other forms of magic, for example whether all forms of ecstactic divination in Norse society would have been called seiðr and so forth.

Unfortunately there are a large number of "New Age" folks out there with paricular and differing POVs on the subject.

Jallan 18:34, 12 Aug 2004 (UTC)


 * Hehe that would be my POV which imo is NPOV; I have a number of substantial objections to Gullveig/Freya as interchangeable deities, not the least being that in the Hyndla Lay, Freya fetches Gullveig to ensure that Svipdag's (Ottar's) pedigree enables him to be admitted to Valhalla. The Hyndla Lay is kinda authoratitive in this respect. There is moreover plenty of evidence for Freya's practice of seidhr, not the least being the fact that seidhr is a manipulative magic, involved in divination and charming and manipulation, primary attributes of a love goddess. Auden translation of Lokasenna:

'':31


 * Freya:

False is your tongue. You will find before long

That ill comes to the evil:

The gods are enraged, the goddesses also

Unhappy will you go hence.''

'':32


 * Loki:

Enough, Freya! I know you a witch

Who has done many wicked deeds:

You enticed into bed your own brother, remember,

And then, Freya, you broke-wind.''

\

Sjc 07:34, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Lame
Bring her lover Ottar? Ottar is not Freyja's lover. It's written son clear in the poem that he is just a protege. enable him to be admitted to Vallhala? It's to help him win his bet and the gold.

From when did "practicing Seid" = Freyja? Snorri wrote so clear that ALL VANIR KNOW SEID. If Gullveig is a Vanir -> she know seid. It's like to say that John and Jame is the same person because they are both English and they both like soccer.

From when Loki's lies = facts?

There is a morden hypothesis that Gullveig is another name of Freyja, but it is not supported by any mythological sources. There is no source stating that "Gullveig is Freyja", or "Freyja was smitten three times by the Æsir. It is written by someone in the article as "Turville-Petre's hypothesis", but it's not. Turville-Petre is not even Scandinavian. He lived in 20th century and only studied the old writings about Norse Mythology, which are mainly the Eddas. The idea came from Müllenhoff's edition of the Poetic Edda. He thought that Gullveig is another name of goddess Freyja. Turville-Petre adopted this idea. All the arguements in the "Turville-Petre's hypothesis" section come from Snorri Sturluson's writings.

- Freyja cried golden tears for her husband -> from Snorri Sturluson's Prose Edda

- Freyja has many other names -> from Snorri Sturluson's Prose Edda

- Freyja taught the gods the art of magic -> from Snorri Sturluson's Ynglinga Saga

- Freyja has two daughters whose both names mean "treasure" -> from Snorri Sturluson's Ynglinga Saga

- Freyja has "a love for jewelry" -> Turville-Petre made it up based on what written in an anti-pagan christian story. His book is full of creativity.

They argued that Freyja's golden tears are related to Gullveig. But some people maintain that Freyja's golden tears is a confusion with Frigg. Then maybe Odin burnt and smitten his own wife?

There are lots of names like Gullveig (Gold-Might) in the myths: "Gold-Teeth", "Gold-Top", "Gold-Bane", "Gold-Man", etc. They are not related to Freyja at all.

Gullveig is not mentioned in any sources of the mythology. She only appeared briefly in the poem Voluspa of the Poetic Edda, and Freyja is also mentioned in the same poem, just some stanza below. They are clearly not the same, and Gullveig is a mere minor figure created to tell a story, while Freyja is a major goddess and especially worshipped. Just a little thinking and you'll see that the hypothesis is pretty lame and stupid.

The Norse gods were not made immortal (see Tyr's wound, Tyr's death, Odin's death, Thor's death, Freyr's death, Baldur's death, Heimdall's death, Loki's death). If Freyja is Gullveig, and she was burnt three times, pierced with spears three times, and yet still lived on as the fairest of all goddess, with no wounds whatsover, she must be the most powerful of all Germanic deities. The "execution of Gullveig" is even more cruel than Loki's punishments. If Freyja is Gullveig, how would she and her father, brother still live happily with the Æsir after that, as if nothing happened?

The funny thing is: eventhough they used Snorri Sturluson's writings to argue that Gullveig is Freyja, Snorri Sturluson himself clearly does not think so.

Snorri Sturluson
According to Snorri Sturluson and his Prose Edda, Gullveig is certainly not Freyja. Freyja and her brother Freyr were born after the war of the gods which started by Gullveig:

Snorri Sturluson also wrote about Freyja's other names, and even explained why she had many names:

Gullveig (Gold-might), was not listed as one of Freyja's names, which all have meanings related to fertility, like "linen", "giver", "sow". Although Freyja had many other names, she was never refered to by these names in myths. Unlike gods, goddesses are often called by only one name. Freyja is not an exception, she is always mentioned as "Freyja" or "Ódr's wife" in the Eddas. Here in Völuspa, Freyja herself appeared as "Ódr's wife" just three stanzas below the part of Gullveig's execution:

Gullveig was associated with wolves, which is completely different from Freyja, who is associated with cats.


 * Heidi they called her,
 * whithersoe´r she came,
 * the well-forseeing Vala:
 * wolves she tamed,
 * magic arts she knew,
 * magic arts practised;
 * ever was she the joy
 * of evil people.

(Benjamin Thorpe's translation, the oldest and most accurate translation of the Elder Edda).

In Ynglinga saga of Heimskringla, it is said that: "Seid was in use and fashion among Vanir", meaning all Vanir know Seid, not just Freyja and Gullveig. Therefore being both related to Seid and Vanir does not mean Gullveig and Freyja are one and the same.

Sophus Bugge
Sophus Bugge and many other Eddic scholars do not agree that Gullveig is the same as Freyja. Whether Gullveig knows Seid or not is doubtful.

Many Eddic editors agreed that this stanza is a reference to the magic and destructive power of gold, and the burning of Gullveig refers to the refining of gold with fire. Some Eddic editors, including Sophus Bugge, put this stanza at the beginning of the poem as the opening stanza, following it with stanzas below, maintaining that it applies to the Seeress who is reciting the poem. Therefore the part of Gullveig in Völuspa in some editions is like this:

The Name of the Goddess
I've begun a small study to find out how English texts generally refer to the Goddess. This is just an eclectic collection of books I've happened upon. Feel free to add to this. My classification of the books can be disputed, of course. - Haukur Þorgeirsson 11:47, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

Popular works
Freyja - The Norse Myths: Introduced and Retold by Kevin Crossley-Holland

Freyja - Mythology: The Illustrated Anthology of World Myth and Storytelling by C. Scott Littleton

Freyja - Norse Myths and Legends by C. Evans

Freyia - Tales of the Norse Gods by Barbara Leonie Picard

Freya - Nordic Gods and Heroes by Padraic Colum

Freya - Mythology by Edith Hamilton

Reference works
Freyja - Handbook of Norse Mythology by John Lindow

Freyja - A Dictionary of Northern Mythology by Rudolf Simek

Freyja - Medieval Scandinavia: An Encyclopedia by Paul Acker

Freyja - Encyclopedia Britannica (http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-65413)

Freyja - The Columbia Encyclopedia (http://www.bartleby.com/65/fr/Freyja.html)

Freya - MSN Encarta (http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761575933/Freya.html)

Freyja - Cassell's Dictionary of Norse Myth and Legend by Andy Orchard

Freyia - Norse Myths by R.I. Page

Freyja - Gods and Myths of Northern Europe by H.R. Ellis Davidson

Freyja - Prolonged Echoes by Margaret Clunies Ross

Translations
Freyja - Benjamin Thorpe's translation of the Poetic Edda

Freyja - Henry Adams Bellows' translation of the Poetic Edda

Freyja - Arthur G. Brodeur's transation of the Prose Edda

Freyja - Jean I. Young's translation of the Prose Edda

Freyia - Ursula Dronke's translation of the Poetic Edda

Freyia - Carolyne Larrington's translation of the Poetic Edda

Freyia - Anthony Faulkes' translation of the Prose Edda

Scholarship
Freyja - Freyja: The Great Goddess of the North by Britt-Mari Näsström

Freyja - Roles of the Northern Goddess by Hilda Ellis Davidson


 * This makes 16 for Freyja 4 for Freyia and 3 for Freya. So why should the article's name be Freya, whereas Freyja is by far the most common spelling? Sigo 15:00, 28 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Indeed. It also seems the article started out at Freyja. Please feel free to move it back. Haukur 15:09, 28 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Done. Sigo 17:30, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Google
19,200 English pages for Freyja mythology

663 English pages for Freyia mythology

74,900 English pages for Freya mythology

Adultery
Does anyone here actually have any solid proof that Freya was able to continually cheat on Ottar behind the all-seeing Odin's back? I fail to see any proof against the fact that the gods had zero tolerance for adultery and murder {both of which got Loki condemned to Hell}, which is proven by numerous sources.

Also, I fail to see the "evidence" of Freya being so desperate that she slept with her brother. Can anyone offer the so-called "evidence"? Aside, of course, from some vague mentioning by Loki the Shameless Chronic Liar {It's very sad and pathetic when people are willing to believe an evil trickster god who loved getting people in trouble, but not respected authors, or actual descendants of the Vikings} in a story that was most likely written long after these characters were first thought up?

Keep in mind that, while the Norse and Greek gods had similar functions, they had completely different personalities.

Edit: I guess I should admit--that was somewhat of a trick challenge.

These myths have changed many times over the centuries, and these gods and goddesses don't exist and have never existed. No one can ever be sure who's right or wrong. And authors can therefore do anything they want with these characters.

But one thing's for sure--Freya would not be able to commit all these atrocities without Odin finding out and banishing her. (comment unsigned)


 * You are reading a modern anti-sex morality into an old set of myths that were known for lusty anecdotes. Your arguments are completely at odds with genuine information about the Norse myths. You can't rewrite the old stories just because you are personally disgusted by the idea that a goddess would sleep with her brother, for example. You think of it as "desperate" when that sort of thing is extremely common in these stories. What you call "atrocities" simply weren't thought of as such. I think you need to do a lot of growing up and reading of more accurate books before you try to edit articles on topics like these. DreamGuy 07:45, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

Uhm, you're talking to someone who reads mythology books intended for high-schoolers and over. Like I said, these myths changed MANY TIMES over the centuries! No one can be sure who's right or wrong!

Sleeping with siblings is common in the myths? Maybe in the Greek myths!

I also think it's pathetic that you guys deny that she was married to Ottar and had a daughter. Why deny that?

Finally, you criticize me for using more modern books as my refernce material--I bet that's what you're using. Modern books and websites. How do either of us know for sure that nothing got lost in translation?

Maybe YOU should get the message that you're no more correct than I am.

~AJ Crescent


 * Please, don't cite secondary sources for such things. Mythology books written for "high schoolers and over" may be acurate, and may be a load of crap. I'm shuddering because my Old Norse can't catch half the Eddas, and so I'm using translations supplimented by scholarly works to point me with their citations.


 * The Eddas do mention her husband Od/Ottar (name changes frequently), though his exact nature is a matter of scholarly debate. I've not done enough research to state my opinion on the matter, but Od can be, and has been, construed to be a form of Odin.


 * As to the first parts of your statements- Who can prove she didn't? And would it have been "cheating" in the modern sense for her to have sex before and after her marriage? She isn't the godess of virgins. And some eddas don't distinguish between her and Frigg, which meant she might have been married to Odin at a random point in Asgard's somewhat non-linear time, and, as you so rightly pointed out, myths change.


 * Loki, as far as I can tell from a quick scan of Cassell and memory, never outright lied. Misdirection and omission were more his style.


 * The Ynglinga Saga tells us that sibling marriages were allowed among the Vanir and prohibited among the Aesir. It says nothing about sex...though that is implied in the manner of reference to wives and husbands. Several children were produced from these relationships, even to the point of Loki saying Njord did such in the fathering of Freyr and Freya (though that is never confirmed nor denied). As Freya was born to the Vanir, sex with her brother would not be looked down upon.


 * The acts that you claim are atrocities under the rule of Odin (master only of the Aesir) are not such, and politely refrain from re-introducing such things into the article. --Esthanya 04:46, 25 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Judeo-Christian morality does not apply to this subject. Please leave the theological dualism-derived morality stick at home when you're referencing indigenous paganism. In fact, you're probably better off doing us all a favor and leaving it behind altogether.. bloodofox: 05:44, 20 January 2006 (UTC)


 * There is no proof, evidence whatsover. All were from the evil giant Loki and and the evil giantess Hyndla's brief comments. Norse Mythology is all lusty? Greek Mythology is even worse. Zeus beat up his father, cut off his penis and threw it into the sea, where Aphrodite arose. He kidnapped and raped numerous women. Greek people worshipped an erected penis. Adam of Bremen said Norse people too, but that's what he claimed. His book is about Christianity after all. 222.254.113.176 11:35, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Freyas visual powers
Could Freya (the Norse goddess) see 100 miles by day or night? Or is that another god(ess)?--Light current 09:07, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Heimdallr could see 100 miles, not Freya --DNAku 12:12, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Vanadis
Vanadis redirects here, but it is not mentioned in the article. Is it another name for Freya?


 * Yes. Vana-dís = dís of the VanirHaukur 10:58, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Better disambiguation?
I created Freya (disambiguation). Perhaps the top of this article should link there instead of listing all things called Freya? Can someone fix this if you agree? Kricke 20:33, 16 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Agreed. Let's do that, I was thinking of doing the same thing myself but hadn't got around to it. Good work! :) Haukur 21:31, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Good move - I've made the requested changes. bloodofox: 17:01, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Friday
Isn't Friday named after her as a Germanic "counterpart" to Venus?


 * No. According to the Oxford English Dictionary (1991 edition), even though Freyja seems to correspond more closely to the Roman goddess Venus, the English word "Friday" is named for Frigg. Crypticfirefly 02:48, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

What's about non-christian version?
My articles with sources have been censured. You have motivation I suppose, (I know that my Englih isn’t so good! I’m only a Viking) but there’s still a big problem to be impartial in Wiki ! When articles speak about Norse mythology we have only the Christians’ opinion! What's about Asatruar opinion? For us it isn’t mythology! Today Christians are quiet and honest and I respect them, but history claim and prove that Christians were like ayatollahs during thousand years! How can one thinks that they give us the truth on our Viking’s believes and pagan one?: All serious Historians agree with this(Boyer, Renaud, Mabire, Musset, Barthelemy…)sources: "L'Islande Médiévale" Régis Boyer, Guide belle lettres des civilisations ISBN 2-251-41014-7 and "Le Christ des barbares" Régis Boyer, les Editions du cerf 1987 ISBN 2-204-02766-9 Here my article: ''We have to remember that it's the Christian clerks whom wrote and translated sagas, written a few centuries after the Viking era! (Inspired by Vitae Latina and Bible) This legend adapted for the Scandinavian Pantheon is in fact the means of the servants of the Church, not the original version! Christians wanted making fall into the collective spirit from the pagan people, the image of honourable Freyja (in German or Frigg in Norse), one of the Goddesses most respected, the symbol of the Woman, the Mother of the hearth, the maternal love, the romantic love… by humiliating her in this myth where she looks like a “prostitute” and covetous woman! The most strange is that the great Odin her husband misled and dishonoured don’t avenged himself! It is the same intention for the most powerful God, Thor, the symbol of virility, ridiculous by a absurd disguise, and give a bad image which he represents: a honourable fighter rather than to using comedy. Also for Freyr who is supposed having incest relation with his sister!''

I think that you have to consider that those calumnies are insults for Asatruar believers. I propose that in each article we expose the version of non Christians.

the second article: "Freyja receives some of those warriors slain on the battlefield but there is no record of how that occurs them. Does Freyja pick them herself? Or does Odin or the Valkyries decide?" ''To explain this choice between Odin and Freyja, the oral transmissions (Odal Property) says that the warriors (Einherjar) reserved for Odin are those of them which dedicate their life with the war and the battles, that one names “the offensive ones”. The warriors reserved for Freyja (Frigg) are those of them which carry out engagements to protect their families their clans and their goods that one names “the defensive ones”. The historian Else Roesdahl noticed that in the burials containing weapons: in those of Norway the warriors had shields (defensive), and in Denmark they had only their weapons of attacks (offensive).sources: “Vikings, investigation into the secrecies of the Masters of the sea” Science and life n°80 April 2004. article from Anne Nissen Jaubert (national Institute of preventive archaeological research)'' Thorgis 16:20, 9 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I undertand your explanations and I’m sorry for my English. I’ll take care to stay completely neutral in regards to subjects. I’m not accustoming yet with encyclopedic definition! If you think that the following information is better, I request your help to translate in good English with changing few words if I still write not neutral sentences.

Here the new article to insert in: “Freyja as battle goddess” A point of view of the oral tradition (Odal Property) explains the choice for Odin’s Einherjar and Freyja’s one. The Odin’s warriors are those whom dedicate their life to fight, that one names “the offensive”. Freyja’s warriors are those whom only fight to protect their families their clans and their goods, that one names “the defensive”. The historian Else Roesdahl noticed that in the burials containing weapons: in those in Norway the warriors had shields (defensive), and in Denmark they had only their weapons of attacks (offensive) sources: “Vikings, investigation into the secrecies of the Masters of the sea” Science and life n°80 April 2004. article from Anne Nissen Jaubert national Institute of preventive archaeological research

Here the new article to insert in: “Freyja as goddess of love” Historians know (1) that a large majority of Norse Mythology have been wrote or translate by Christians few centuries after Viking period, they wanted to give a bad look for Norse Gods. Another point of view for Norse believers explains that Freyja is one of the Goddesses most respected. She was the symbol of the Woman, the Mother of the hearth, the maternal love, the romantic love… she can’t be a “prostitute” and covetous woman. Odin her husband can’t be dishonored without avenged himself. Same for the most powerful God, Thor, the symbol of virility, ridiculous by an absurd disguise , or for Freyr who is supposed having incest relation with his sister. sources: (1) "L'Islande Médiévale" Régis Boyer, Guide belle lettres des civilisations ISBN 2-251-41014-7 "Le Christ des barbares" Régis Boyer, les Editions du cerf 1987 ISBN 2-204-02766-9 Thorgis 14:29, 11 December 2006 (UTC)


 * The eddaswere written in Iceland by who knows, most definitely not someone named snurri (except by accident), however what is known is that Iceland became a haven of "god-fearing" pagan norse well into the 15th century and even today. What many people see as the myth written from a christian viewpoint, and the decendants of the norse are not alone in this, is really only the interpretation of the myth by the reader raised in a christian land.  What seems rendered in a disrespectful comedic light is really only your reaction based on the belief that these stories are more than but what they are namely, poems to be recounted on a cold dark night, just like the christian ones.  The phenomenon of people telling stories using various spirits/deities as characters (i.e. Myth) is over-flowing with theatrics, childish inversions, bad puns, and the like.  The Hellenes were notable for this as well as the native American mythologies involving the trickster.  Don't misinterpret the myth, its only a fun tale to teach simple people to harrassed with work and family something about there psychological reality, it is poetry to be enjoyed not taken deeply to the point of indignation and offense, by anyone. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.212.242.187 (talk) 02:17, 2 January 2007 (UTC).

You are wrong. Odin and Freya were deities to be worshipped. The Vikings were among bravest soldiers in Europe in cause they really believed that when they die bravely in battle, they will be sent to heaven, to Odin or Freya (instead of going to Hel). It was a religion, a belief of Norsemen. It wasn't written down because it's not some kinds of comedies to read for fun and laught at. Do you make up funny, immoral things about the ones you worship?

Debate here
Debate here, not in the article itself. Contradictory things are being said, and the thing reads like an argument as it stands now. Source, post in the talk page, and get it right. 72.144.71.193 15:08, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Homologues
In reference to:

Britt-Mari Näsström posits in her "Freyja: Great Goddess of the North" that there is a tenable connection from Freyja to other Goddesses worshipped along the migration path of the Indo-Europeans who consistently appeared with either one or two cats/lions as companions, usually in the war Goddess aspect but occasionally also as a love Goddess. These would include: Durga, Ereshkegal, Sekhmet, Menhit, Bast, Anat, Asherah, Nana, Cybele, Rhea, and others.

Although I haven't read the work sited, the concept here seems pretty messy to me. Nana and Rhea are both figures in Greek mythology. We don't really KNOW where they came from or even if they came from an origin foreign to the Greeks. Despite much speculation about the concept that Titans like Rhea originally being worshipped by the indigenous peoples of the Aegean rather than by the Greeks, there's never really been any hard, conclusive evidence for this and they may simply be aspects of Greek mythology that have always been Greek.

Sekmet and Bast are two separate Egyptian Goddesses and Egypt was NOT on any "Indo-European migration path". Anat and Asherah were both worshipped by polytheistic Jews and Canaanites. This also is not on any "Indo-European migration path" as far as I know. Ereshkegal is Sumerian and thence taken up by the Akkadians. Moreover, She was their death Goddess (as for being a "war" Goddess, all sorts of Deities get invoked in times of war, so just about any Deity can be termed a war Deity). While these peoples certainly had Indo-European neighbors, such as the Persians and Hittites, it's not clear to me that there's any relationship between Ereshkegal and Freya. Moreover, while I don't know much about Hittite religion, I know that the Persians had a relatively different religion from their Mesopotamian neighbors, though they were definitely influenced by them.

As for "THE Indo-European migration path", there was not a single path. It was more like a bunch of groups moving out radially. Moreover, the migration occurred over a very long period of time. Are we supposed to believe that the Germanic peoples are descended from the Hittites or Persians? There doesn't seem to me to be a pattern here.

- Ivan Richmond, BA Classics, Reed College (Although my degree is in Classics, I DID receive a lot of education in general Indo-European studies.)
 * The paragraph you found in the article doesn't reflect Britt-Mari Näsström's theories at all. A follower of Dumézil, she certainly believes Freyja has Indo-European counterparts (and I guess she knows what Indo-Europeans are), but she clearly rejects the "oriental hypothesis" ("the idea of an influence of the East Mediterranean must finally be laid to rest", p.14). This part should probably be removed. Sigo 22:00, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Please provide a warning on the article
Because when people start adding comments about their personal belief in Jesus -- or appear to be ranting about Christian editing of the sources from which most of the information on Freya/Freyja is drawn while ranting about portions of the information which conflict with a Western/Christian morality that condemns adultery and sexual freedom -- the article really needs a big warning sign to indicate that it's extremely unreliable. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.141.82.145 (talk • contribs) 05:16, 17 June 2007
 * Oh, please sign so we'll see your IPs. Christians editing Norse Mythology is a common knowlege and undeniable. Read the page about Norse Mythology yourself. This is the talk page. I talk what I want. I didn't bash your Jesus, just gave an example. And I named that ranting part "random rants" myself. I just tell people not to edit Freya to be "sexual intercourse goddess" like they did before, because there is nothing to support that. Cheers. Freya Worshiper 09:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
 * See Signatures for information on unsigned comments.Lucky number 49 16:31, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Reverted Text
I removed the following text from the article- (Please note that this story was not written in Eddas, and most likely made up by Christians. Infact, there are many different versions of this tale on the net as people all made them up and never give any sources for what they wrote.) -as I believe it is against WP:NPOV and WP:OR. Rather than saying that sources are "all made up", perhaps citations could be provided for these claims-- lead by example, and all that --showing whence it does originate. I'm perfectly happy to see this point of view supported within the article, and perhaps there's a place for widespread misconceptions under a "Misconceptions" section. Lucky number 49 16:23, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Geez, so when people added the false information of "Freyja sleeping with four dwarves" without citing any sources, where were you? Freya Worshiper 08:12, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Where was I? Simple, friend; I hadn't found my way to this article, yet. By whatever coincidence of fate, I happened upon the article after you had begun making edits. I have to wonder, though, what your grounds are for saying "false information". As I said on your discussion page, the Christian sources are the oldest reliable written sources we have-- if the stories that are termed myths are what composes a mythology (as most dictionaries state), then the Christian-written stories are the bulk of what is considered Norse mythology. If you wish to speak of pre-Christian Norse beliefs, that is a different matter entirely. As to providing citations, you seem to be very familiar with the particular sources of these stories, more so than myself; perhaps instead of deleting them or referring to them as lies, you could provide citations? It's an old rule of story telling that it's better to show than to tell. To use a popular example on Wikipedia, we don't need to tell everyone that Hitler was bad- we just need to list the facts and let people see it for themselves. Lucky number 49 16:34, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Haha, weren't you the one bitching about "citing sources"? There wasn't any sources cited before about "Freyja sleeping with four dwarves". When you first came here, you didn't know a thing about Norse Mythology, and didn't help to cite any sources either. Why Sörla þáttr is not a myth? Myths are ancient stories pagan gods or heroes. Sörla þáttr: written in 1400 (ancient?). It's not about mythological heroes, it's not about the pagan gods. It's about a Christian King. Those wars written before, without Odin and Freya. If that can be called a myth, so everything written around 1400 are "myths". Don't be lame. Freya Worshiper 07:58, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Not only you don't know anything about Norse Mythology, Lucky number 49, and never added any helpful informations to the article, you don't even understand what's "Norse", and what's "myth".

Norse = ancient Scandinavians

Myths = ancient stories about pagan gods or heroes

Eddas were written around 9th-12th century, but they just record the ancient tales.

Sörla þáttr:

- written by Christians in 15th century -> not by Norsemen

- about some wars and praised Christianity -> not about pagan gods

Freya Worshiper 08:20, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
 * As I stated on your discussion page, there is no reliable dictionary that I have found which limits the definiton of "myth" as you have. As to "Norse", I should like to point out that, as an adjective, the term may still be used to describe even accounts written by foreign Christians about the old deities, as they are stories (myths) relating to ancient Scandanavians (Norse), therefore Norse myth. True, I have not added any information to this article, it is not a topic for which I have much in the way of resources. However, a large part of Wikipedia is ensuring that NPOV is maintained, and that vandalism is prevented. When I came to the article, your edits were the most recent that appeared to be in violation of Wikipedia policy. Lucky number 49 15:36, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
 * User Lucky number 49, you keep trying to say that Sörla þáttr is a "Norse myth", where as it was written in 15th century, and was in a book which belongs to Icelandic Medieval Lit. I have said this many time: It is *NOT* about old deities. It *USED* old deities to lead into some wars and praise CHRISTIANITY. The same wars were written before, without Odin or Freya. The "Freya and the dwarves" were recorded no where in older sources about Norse Mythology. It couldn't have survived orally through 13 centuries. The author of Sörla þáttr made it up as an anti-pagan lie. He blatantly changed the old poem Húsdrápa (on Loki stealing Brisingamen), removed Heimdall, and put in Odin. He borrowed Lokasenna's parts about Gefjon sleeping with men for a necklace, and changed Gefjon into Freya. Then he combined the two parts into a lame story, and used it as an excuse to lead into the wars, and praise the arrival of Christianity. Freya in the story is a woman in Asialand, a concubine of Odin, not a goddess. The necklace wasn't called Brisingamen. Freya Worshiper 08:15, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

I know that a certain user called Lucky number 49 is angry eversince the "Freya is a goddess of sexual intercourse" was removed, but as he never read Norse Mythology, I would like to point out the references of Freya related to "Lust":

- In Lokasenna (Elder Edda):


 * Loki's lies:

Be thou silent, Freya!

I know thee full well

thou art not free from vices:

of the Æsir and the Alfar (elf)

that are herein

each has been thy paramour.

Scholars suggested that Lokasenna wasn't popular at all, and what Loki said (which were not found anywhere else) are mostly blatant lies and don't exist in the lores.

But I know the internet community clinged on this to call Freya "a whore". Then Frigg, Idun, Skadi, Gefjon, Sif are "whores" as well, since Loki said the same things to them. Lokasenna was composed to insult the gods and goddesses after all.

- In Hyndluljod (Elder Edda):


 * Hyndla's insults:

My noble one, out in the night thou leapest

As Heidrun goes the goats among

To Odr didst thou run who loved thee ever

And many under thy girdle have crawled

... so what? A giantess insulting a goddess?

- In a Christian story written in 15th century called Sörla þáttr: Freya is an asian woman in Asialand, and concubine of Odin, King of Asialand. This woman got a necklace from four dwarves by sleeping with them. The name of the necklace was never mentioned as Brisingamen. The story also blatantly stole a part of Loki's robbery in Húsdrápa. What told in the story was never written anywhere in older sources. Loki does not even mention it in his insults for Freya in Lokasenna.

Are those enough to label her "goddess of sexual intercourse", pal?

The only reason why I am here is to help improving the article about goddess Freya in Norse Mythology, to make it fair and accurate. Lucky number 49, you have been bothering me for removing "sex/sexual intercourse" from Freya's page. Unless you can give evidences from myths to prove it, stop ranting.

Freya Worshiper 06:45, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

This guy Lucky number 49 is funny. He wrote in his user page that he is pansexual and interested in sex, of course he wanna protect his POV that someone is goddess of sex. And he said he protected this page from vandalism, but he admitted that he doesn't know anything about Norse Mythology. If he doesn't have any knowledge of the subject, how would he know what's vandalism and what's not? I saw in the history page that this page has no citations whatsover for a long time since Lucky number 49 came, and he had no comments. But when someone hurt his favorite "sex" parts, he immediately added the WP:OR tags and yelled loudly about NPOV, WP:OR, Citation and stuffs.

As for the giants' claims written above, as wikipedia people often say, they are all POV and OR, and to speak like a wikipedia editor: "" Ruri-ruri 07:18, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Look closely if you're going to criticize me. I say on my page that I'm interested in sexuality, not sex. Yes, I'm pansexual; so? That doesn't mean that I'm obsessed with sex, any more than a heterosexual or homosexual person might be expected to be. I honestly don't care whether Freyja is considered a goddess of sex, love, beauty, or whatever people can state with evidence. If I've given that impression, I'm sorry. All that I am concerned with, all that I was concerned with in the past, is: maintaining a neutral, non-ethnocentric tone on wikipedia, not allowing unsupported claims to be introduced, and making sure that all relevant views on a topic are included. Might the idea of Freyja as having been a love/sex goddess to the polytheist Norse people be a fallacy introduced by later authors? Certainly, and if it can be backed up, I'm all for including it. However, removing claims that she is believed by many to be a goddess of sex or sexuality will actually hurt the argument against it-- what's the point in criticizing a point of view if all references to that point of view are removed? so sayeth Lucky Number 49 Yell at me! 15:45, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Goddess of "What"
User Bloodofox is deleting the "Freyja is goddess of what". And he reverted my edits when I re-added them.

But I think it's not fair. Introduction is where we give a general description of the deity, what he/she does or often viewed as. All articles of other deities are written like that. Examples:

Venus: "Venus was a major Roman goddess principally associated with love and beauty and fertility"

Frigg: "Frigg is a goddess of fertility, love, household management, marriage, motherhood, and domestic arts"

Odin: "Odin is a god of wisdom, war, battle and death"

Thor: "Thor is a god of Thunder"

The "this god/goddess is god/goddess of what" was in this article from the beginning, as well as in articles about any other deities. I don't know why you want to remove the "jobs", or why do you want source?? Which sources say Venus is goddess of love/beauty or Odin is god of war/poetry, or Thor is god of thunder? Why is Frigg goddess of the sky and domestic arts? It's common sense! Of why Freyja is goddess of this and that, people can read below, where it is explained. 123.19.47.22 (talk) 08:58, 9 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, what you have to understand is it's not that straight forward. The information we have on the ancient Germanic gods does not so neatly wrap up into single words. For example, Thor was heavily associated with oak trees to the Germanic peoples outside of Iceland but in Iceland there's probably only a single mention of this former association. Freyja was not just a goddess of "this and that," these are deductions made from source material for quick lists that are based on someone's opinion. You must cite who is making these claims and then you must place it in a section explaining it fully. This is Wikipedia policy. Trust me, I want to make the best possible article on this subject and to do so we have to remove the blur and get to the facts. That means source material and sources. bloodofox: (talk) 09:05, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Yes, as I said above, all other deities have "this is a deity of what", and it is also "not" explained or given sources. Even though there's no source, it's been a "tradition" that people often interprete the myths and say this deity is god of this or that. That's the way it is. Evenwhen some "books" say "this god is god of what", it's also simply one man's POV.

Freyja's jobs are already explained so clear, love beause people prayed to her for love, beauty because she's beautiful. War, death because she receives dead warriors, magic because she taught the gods magic. Removing it because you say people are "interpreting the myths" are not fair. Why? Where is it written that Odin is god of poetry, war, death, also a god of magic, poetry, prophecy, victory and the hunt?? Where is it written that Frigg is goddess of fertility, love, household management, marriage, motherhood, and domestic arts??? There's no source cited in Venus's article that she's goddess of love and beauty and fertility!! If you put it that way, you may as well go to Venus's article and remove the line "Venus is goddess of this or that" too.

Please keep in mind that people are also contributing with good faith. I know people are often irritated when others change their edits. But we are all trying to make it better. 123.19.47.22 (talk) 09:14, 9 December 2007 (UTC)


 * The other introductions need changes as well. If there is a problem elsewhere, that does not make this problem right. In time, all of these articles will evolve to be scholarly sources rather than the usual gray soup of attempting to peg things into simplistic archetypes and I am attempting to do just that. These intricate, complex and poetic figures deserve much better than such treatment. We are not dealing with two dimensional figures here. Different sources give different answers with varying levels of underlining connections.


 * As an example, that's one of the reasons that the Loki introduction is so bad at the moment and most of these introductions are heavily skewed in the direction of Eddic sources, which needs to be changed since a lot of their articles have grown far beyond that.


 * If you want there to eventually be a solid, scholarly article here we need to do away with there "god of.." comments and state where it said what and then, in the theories section, you can then add where this notion began if we must. I also suggest you take a look at the other changes I made in the introduction as well, as they were sorely needed. bloodofox: (talk) 09:27, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Then you go delete the stuff in Venus and Aphrodite's articles first, and see if other will revert you or not. And then you need to do the Frigg's, Odin's, Thor's, Mars, Apollo, Zeus, Amaterasu, SuanoO, or some Persian gods. You will be fighting a war too big. And if you win your crusade, apparently people will need to read "ALL" the article to find out "what's this deity's job?" I saw in the history and archive that Freyja was written here as "a goddess of *that* (you know what)", and I saw you around here too at that time, what was you doing? Why do you want to remove the "jobs" now? I did not revert all what you wrote. I rephrased them and put back the "goddess of what" because some people just look at the intro for general informations. I also added some references on Seid and Freyja, pluse I added some minor things like Valhalla, please don't revert them all.

That's what I do not like about WP: People always think they are right, and are irritated when reverted. Unless we keep our good faith, merciless edit wars will break out. Right now this article is one of the biggest and finest amongst Norse deities' articles. We sould keep it stable in stead of create an edit war. I think some other Norse articles needs you attentions more than this. :) 123.19.47.22 (talk) 09:34, 9 December 2007 (UTC)


 * These "jobs" you speak of are often only derived from brief mentions in one or two sources and sometimes contradicted by other sources. This gives way to serious point of view problems and those little words can turn into a huge lists.  These associations are severely problematic in other ways too. Let me give you an example; would you like "incest" in there also? According to Lokasenna, we could pop that in there because, doubtlessly, someone's made the connection and it applies to the same logic as putting all of those one-word, opinionated and cherry-picked descriptors in and gives sway to as much point of view issues. The edits I applied mention these descriptors in a way that leaves no room for such issues or opinions.


 * Articles like the Iðunn article, while short largely due to source material, do not use this "goddess of.." approach as well and rightly so. It's simply not as simple as that and what would these descriptors make her? Goddess of apples, the kidnapped, youth.. ? There's been much speculation in those but numerous opinions and theories.


 * Another example that you brought to lights is that the Thor article only says he is a god of thunder because there is an extremely strong, special etymologial and historical link between Thor and thunder but it doesn't say he is a god of "hammers," god of "goats" or god of "kicking dwarves into fire at Baldr's funeral pyre." Sources regarding the figure of Thor as considerably more complex and so it's not appropriate to put it in there as it's very misleading. If there aree theories regarding these subjects - and there are plenty - it can go into the theory section.


 * Please give this some thought. I hope you see my point. bloodofox: (talk) 10:04, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

FUNNY THINGS about the "goddess of apples" & "god of goats". But Idun is commonly viewed as goddess of youth, seriously. And in the article, it's not written that "Freyja is goddess of huge cats" because cats pull her chariots, not "goddess of tears" because she cried a lot, not "goddess of anger and quake" because when she was angry, heaven was shaken. Odin is not "god of one-eye" or "god eaten by wolf", but he is called with various titles. I contributed a lot to this article, and argued with Blood of Ox a lot. I know you. "You are making your own intepretations of myth here" is wrong. Why? That's not intepretations. If it says "she was worshiped by ancient Germans as goddess of love", then it's really interpretations, and we don't know about that, can never know. But It's written: "she is portrayed in the Eddas as a goddess of love", and it's 100% right. YOU WERE FUNNY THOUGH, and Bloodofox are RIGHT with some points. With that logic, ZEUS can be called "GOD OF KIDNAPPING or GOD of RAPES, or God of WIFE-EATING". But those lame titles will be reverted. 222.252.226.254 (talk) 11:29, 9 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Umm... this... the article of Odin says that "Odin is god of poetry, war, death. He is also a god of magic, poetry, prophecy, victory and the hunt." I don't see why we can not say "Freyja is goddess of fertility, love, beauty, attraction. She is also a goddess of war, battle, death, and magic."
 * But here, I suggest this: I read some books and I think the "love, beauty, and fertility" is obvious. My dictionary writes: "Freya is Scandinavian Goddess of Love, Beauty, and Fertility". The Microsoft Encyclopedia also says "Freya is Goddess of Love and Beauty". The other things, I changed to "associated with". Everyone should agree with this and be happy now, eh? ;D Shrine Maiden (talk) 11:03, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Umm... I will paste the article here :) "Freya or Freyja, in Norse mythology, goddess of love, fertility, and beauty, sometimes identified as the goddess of battle and death. Her father was Njord, a fertility god. Blond, blue-eyed, and beautiful, Freya traveled on a golden-bristled boar or in a chariot drawn by cats. She resided in the celestial realm of Folkvang, where it was her privilege to receive half of all the warriors slain in battle; the god Odin received the other half at Valhalla. In Germany, Freya was sometimes identified with Frigg, the wife of Odin. Microsoft ® Encarta ® 2007. © 1993-2006 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved." Shrine Maiden (talk) 12:55, 9 December 2007 (UTC)


 * An encyclopedia of mine begins by saying "Freya is a goddess of fertility".--Berig (talk) 20:03, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Trimming needed
The article in its current state is far too long an includes far too much original text. While I fully support focus on the original text, we can't have it all here and should be using "main" tags for specific poems to point to their articles and sagas with a brief summary here. I'll try to get around to reducing these sections myself but in the mean time any help would be appreciated. bloodofox: (talk) 17:46, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

I am all for making it even longer with original texts other than some stuffs made-up by 19th century American christians. I've never heard that long articles are bad. I just added one or two lines and here someone found it "too long" already. If you have time, I suggest you use it to lengthen other articles, not to shorten this one. I'm trimming anyway, actually.123.19.43.193 (talk) 21:34, 12 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Anonymous IP, I have no idea why you're going on about "19th century American Christians". If you check my edit history, obviously this isn't something I am going to be too keen on. Secondly, an article can become too large and then must be split up, that's why we have 'main' tags and so forth. Huge quotes belong, if anywhere, on their own articles - otherwise keep it brief and to the point. This page cannot display every quote regarding Freyja from the Poetic and Prose Edda. bloodofox: (talk) 00:19, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

It is only 66kb. It's not too large. It's only a few stanzas. It looks long because it's only 10 words per line. There's no harm having one or two stanzas in this article. If people don't want to read, they know how to scroll. If not, they can read everything about Freyja in one page. 123.19.41.150 (talk) 00:26, 13 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Of course, I recommend a situation like what I've done with the Sif article. However, the problem is that entire, large poems are about Freyja unlike the scant few mentions of Sif. We just needs summaries and highlights here. bloodofox: (talk) 00:33, 13 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm not going to get into a revert war with you over this but, in time, you'll see what I'm talking about. The article needs heavy trimming. bloodofox: (talk) 00:34, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Why those quotes are needed? So that people won't make it up. For examle: Lokasenna. Loki says "you are a whore!". Freyja says "You are a liar". But some people just took Loki's words as "facts" and omit Freyja's words. So it's here so that some lazy people can find out what's actually being said. 123.19.41.150 (talk) 00:34, 13 February 2008 (UTC)