Talk:Fridtjof Nansen/Archive 1

Comment
Perhaps there should be some mention of his book In Northern Mists, and his studies in history and archaeology.

Also, some words about his achievements as an athlete. Skiing was the basis of his polar expedition, he participated in the Huseby/Holmenkollen skiing meets, and at least at one instance he also proved an excellent speed skater. His writings were important in the establishment of skiing as Norway's national sport.

'''The whole expedition section makes no sense and appears as though it was translated from some other language into English by a very poor computer program and pasted into the article. Someone who knows something about the expedition should rewrite the section.''' —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.224.228.136 (talk) 04:08, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

A fascinating article. I assume many of the quotations are translated from Norwegian, and suspect in a few cases they could be made to read better (unfortunately I don't read Norwegian). Gelofgren (talk) 17:20, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Article expansion
During the next couple of weeks this article is to be expanded, with a view to achieving a feature-quality article worthy of a figure of Nansen's stature. I have previously worked on Nansen's Fram expedition and other polar-related articles, and have helped in the biographies of Scott, Shackleton and other major figures. Suggestions and comments will be much appreciated, especially from Norwegian readers. Brianboulton (talk) 18:24, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

Republican?
An anecdote about Nansen that I've heard, is that he was originally in favor of Norway becoming a republic, but when he found out republicans wanted him as president, he changed his mind and supported constitutional monarchy. It might be worth seeking out references on this. 195.1.73.1 (talk) 06:04, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

Tips
I could have edited the article, but you specifically asked for talk page notes. So: Geschichte (talk) 19:53, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
 * In the lead: de-capitalize zoology, link to Eva Nansen.
 * Another infobox rather than Infobox Person?
 * "Copengagen"
 * link to Hans Leierdahl Nansen. I believe the term for sorenskriver is district stipendiary magistrate.
 * What is a Reporter to the Supreme Court?
 * link to the Norwegian constitution of 1814
 * Fröen -> Frøen
 * "the Telemark" -> Telemark, also "to the west of Store Fröen" is quite strange. It is many, many miles west.
 * link Robinson Crusoe
 * skater -> ice skater
 * decapitalize and link Examen Artium
 * link Robert Collett, Daniel Cornelius Danielssen, Oluf Christian Dietrichson (all are notable)
 * Bergen museum -> Bergen Museum
 * "poor reception in the Press" - decapitalize press. Capitalize Parliament right after that.
 * Finnmarl -> Finnmark
 * "Dr. Henrik Mohn" -> Henrik Mohn, drop the "Dr.". Capitalize Parliament again not long after that.
 * Vardø is linked twice very close to each other.
 * "named after Eva's father" -> "named after Eva's father "
 * "political union between Norway and Sweden" -> personal union between Norway and Sweden
 * "replaced by one led by Christian Michelsen" -> "replaced by one led by Christian Michelsen "
 * Veslemöy -> Veslemøy, Takeheimen -> Taakeheimen
 * "Hiss personal life" typo
 * Is the Norwegian Union of Defence equal to Norges Forsvarsforening? Link it
 * "He gave the money" -> "He gave the Nobel Prize money"
 * puppet government - change link to puppet government
 * mention that Christian Michelsen (the guy from 1905) was active in Fedrelandslaget
 * The "Brögger" in the bibliography is Waldemar Christofer Brøgger (geologist); link him, and also link to Nordahl Rolfsen (note spelling). Link William Archer too, he's notable
 * Thanks for these suggestions. The article is still under construction; I haven't touched the lead yet, or the infobox, and some of the other sections are still in first draft form, but all your points will be taken aboard. Brianboulton (talk) 08:55, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Jeanette or Jeannette?
spelling --Hordaland (talk) 06:56, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Jeannette - thanks. Brianboulton (talk) 08:58, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Fixed. --Hordaland (talk) 13:13, 9 August 2010 (UTC)


 * I have checked out the minor changes you have made. The lead is not yet written - what is there belongs to the pre-expansion version of the article, and will be entirely replaced. In English we do talk of "sitting" examinations, but I am happy to accept your rewording. I am no expert on Norwegian geography, but Huntford describes Telemark as "to the west of Christiana" and my map of Norway shows the provincial boundary about 50 miles west of Oslo, so calling my wording: "a mountainous region to the west of Store Frøen" a "silly phrase" in your edit summary seems unnecessarily curt.  Hopefully this was not intentional. Brianboulton (talk) 13:23, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
 * OK, sorry. It just felt that way, like saying that California is an area west of Denver.  Oslo is a point east of Telemark, but Telemark is a huge area, very diverse, with a coastline (see the photos of Porsgrunn, for example); it's not all mountainous.
 * Else, I see that the tips above suggest Taakeheimen where I wrote Tåkeheimen. The former is very old-fashioned today, but might be correct in context.  "Takeheimen" is not correct.
 * Good luck further. It's an important article.  The man is remembered fondly in so many areas of the world, aside from his explorations & scientific work.  --Hordaland (talk) 18:19, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Another point: The article says that Norway and Sweden were in a political union. In Norwegian it is always referred to as a personal union. Hordaland (talk) 19:10, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I think that point has to be made by a footnote, as the wording would otherwise make no sense to English readers. I am happy to revert to your spelling of Tåkeheimen. Brianboulton (talk) 20:22, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Personal union only needs to be wikilinked, IMO.

Grammar suggestion. "Since he above all wanted expert skiers, he attempted to recruit from Telemark; however, they declined his approaches." There, the pronoun they doesn't refer back to anything. Maybe something like: Since he above all wanted expert skiers, he attempted to recruit from Telemark; however, his approaches were rebuffed. Hordaland (talk) 12:17, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Grammar corrected (almost) per this suggestion. Brianboulton (talk) 22:06, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

New, related article
Bare et liv – Historien om Fridtjof Nansen. You decide if it's relevant. Geschichte (talk) 20:27, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, worth a mention in the main article. Brianboulton (talk) 11:29, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

Peer review
Hi Brian, I took a look through the Statesman section as requested, copy edited it a little, and made a few tweaks elsewhere. The article reads very well. I would probably reduce some of the image sizes a little, but that's a preference issue, and maybe join up some short paragraphs, and other little copy editing things, but it's overall very good. SlimVirgin talk| contribs 13:07, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

Images
Brian, I saw you removed Eva. There are some images on Flickr, which appear to be from the National Library of Norway, and which say they're cc-by, in case you're interested. You could email them just to check that these really were posted by them. Apologies if you've seen them already. SlimVirgin talk| contribs 16:27, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
 * This confirms that the Flickr account is legit. Rettetast (talk) 22:36, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Eva was withdrawn on the advice of Elcobbola, with whom I have discussed all the article's images. I'd like to get his views on the Flickr images, because it seems that the copyright status in the US of Norwegian images is a little complicated. I have seen most of these pics, though not on Flickr, and never in books unequivocally published before 1923. Anyhow, my thanks to both of you for bringing these to my notice. Brianboulton (talk) 15:11, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
 * This and this image of Eva taken by Ludwik Szacinski is certainly PD. He died in 1984. Rettetast (talk) 18:19, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
 * If there are specific images that you want me to investigate the copyright status of I am happy to assist. It is probably easier to search sources when you know Norwegian. Rettetast (talk) 18:21, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
 * It is establishing PD under US copyright law that concerns me. Also, I can't believe that Szacinski took these photographs in 1889 and 1890 and died in 1984. Do you mean 1894? Brianboulton (talk) 20:34, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry. Of course 1884. There is an encyclopedic article about Szacinski in Norsk biografisk leksikon. Rettetast (talk) 23:35, 27 August 2010 (UTC)


 * To make them PD in the U.S. (in a straightforward way), we need to know that they were published before 1923, not only taken before then, and that can be the tricky thing to establish. SlimVirgin  talk| contribs 00:04, 28 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Erm, 1894 or he was dead when he took the photos I've talked to Elcobbola, who basically says that if the National Library of Norway says they're CC-by 2.0, then they're CC-by 2.0 so I can use them. I'm too tired to do anything more tonight, but will make a decision in the morning. Thanks, SV and  Rettetast, for your help. Brianboulton (talk) 00:12, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm stupid. 1894. I should write a stub about him. So I could refer to that. Rettetast (talk) 10:47, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

The image you removed seems to be the same as this. Taken in England. Rettetast (talk) 10:49, 28 August 2010 (UTC)


 * I have upploaded File:EvaNansenskiing.jpg to Commons, and as soon as an administrator confirms the licencing I will add this to the article. Brianboulton (talk) 18:51, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

Constitution day, 17 May 2011
Now that the Nansen article is featured, it may be worth proposing it for TFA next 17 May, unless a better Norway-related article is available. Brianboulton (talk) 18:17, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Or maybe even better, his 150th birthday. That will surely be celebrated in Norway and likely elsewhere.  --Hordaland (talk) 21:05, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

Man of many Facets
This link won't open for me today. I was just wondering the venue for the one-mile skating championship at age 18, and whether it really was an English mile, or perhaps a Norwegian mile, which is much longer. (Congratulations on Featured!) --Hordaland (talk) 07:23, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

edit request
The references 125 and 126 are the same, shouldn't them be merged into one? 190.234.198.142 (talk) 15:37, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

The Wedel-Jarlsberg middle name
I have never seen that Wedel-Jarlsberg name used on Nansen. It was his mothers maiden name, but did Nansen ever use it as his own middle name? I've checked the 1865 and 1910 Norwegian census listings, and none of them has it mentioned. For the 1910 census he even wrote in his name himself, but only Fridtjof Nansen. So what is the source for us using it as his middle name here?--Shanes (talk) 16:50, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Good point. The middle name appears in a few sources, notably this book, published in 2009. A large number of online sites relating to Nansen use the name, but I suspect that Wikipedia is the source of many of these, or they quote each other. Neither of Nansen's main English language biographers (Huntford and J.M. Scott) use the format; I have spot-checked a fair number of other Arctic histories without finding any use of the name. I will investigate further, and if I can't find some pretty firm evidence that Wedel-Jarlsberg was part of Nansen's name, I'll delete it. Brianboulton (talk) 18:02, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

Lunar crater
The Nansen (lunar crater) is named after him. Perhaps this could be mentioned in the article? Regards, RJH (talk) 04:04, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

Sudden death
The guy was basically 60 years old. Where is the sudden in dying at that age ? (see: intro) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.157.201.73 (talk) 08:57, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

60 for an Arctic Explorer isn't too shabby; those guys tend to burn out young. As the article mentions, it was a heart attack. Viciouspiggy (talk) 09:46, 10 October 2011 (UTC)


 * I suppose that if you are about nine, 60 seems almost like overstaying your welcome. Actually  Nansen was basically 68 not 60, but never mind. One can die suddenly at any age. Brianboulton (talk) 16:28, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

Technoviking!
We found him! Jason Quinn (talk) 14:19, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

Iraq 4ever?
Can someone please go through and delete all of the random easter eggs which are random graffiti in this website? I've already deleted one from the end of the introductory section, and I'm pretty sure Iraqi Arabic-language chat websites are not relevant for this article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.98.19.198 (talk) 20:23, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

Removal of unsourced additions
Under the provisions of Stewardship I have recently removed several unsourced additions to the "Death and legacy" section. This is a featured article, and all information added to it has to meet the FA requirement of citation to a reliable source. It also needs to be noteworthy, per WP:Notability, and must use British not US spellings. Brianboulton (talk) 16:08, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

atheism
The citation for Nansen's atheism does not say that he was an atheist: in fact it does not mention his religious belief/unbelief at all. The claim should be sourced or removed.  Tigerboy1966  08:39, 25 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Quote F. Nansen:

«Jeg mener at generelt sett (og mer og mer eftersom jeg blir eldre), men ikke alltid, vilde det mest treffende uttrykk for mitt synspunkt kalles agnostisk .» Nansen specifically writes that the most fitting definition of his personal approach to faith is agnosticism. I don't see the issue here. --O (talk) 20:39, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

The Sami people crossing Greenland
The pair of Sami's who partcipated in to crossing Greenland were Samuel Balto and Ole Nielsen Ravna as in book "På ski over Grönland". Would it be appropriate to add them ?Noseball (talk) 15:10, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

Death and legacy
The line "Nansen's daughter Liv recorded that there were no speeches, just music: Schubert's Death and the Maiden, which Eva used to sing.[156]" in the Death and legacy paragraph seems out of place and should probably be corrected. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Belagola (talk • contribs) 07:28, 10 September 2012 (UTC)

Clarifying text
Please, someone could improve the sentence: The RGS president, Sir Mountstuart Elphinstone Grant Duff, said that Nansen has claimed "the foremost place amongst northern travellers", and later awarded him the Society's prestigious Founder's Medal. I can not understand. Thanks. W.SE (talk) 23:54, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

File:Fridtjof Nansen LOC 03377u-3.jpg to appear as POTD soon
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Request for Comments
There is an RfC on the question of using "Religion: None" vs. "Religion: None (atheist)" in the infobox on this and other similar pages.

The RfC is at Template talk:Infobox person.

Please help us determine consensus on this issue. --Guy Macon (talk) 10:29, 21 April 2015 (UTC)


 * By the time I got to this the discussion had been archived without apparent consensus. However, the rule governing the inclusion of a subject's religion in the infobox seems clear: " Inclusion is permitted in individual articles' infoboxes as a custom parameter only if directly tied to the person's notability" (Emphasis added). I deleted the entry referring to Nansen's atheism because it did not appear to meet this criterion. Somebody has reverted my deletion with the summary comment "I see no reason to leave it out". That is false reasoning – there needs to be a specific reason for leaving it in. In what way was Nansen's atheism directly tied to his notability? Brianboulton (talk) 10:11, 21 May 2016 (UTC)
 * I have waited more than a week to see if anyone can produce an argument for including Nansen's atheism in the infobox. Since none has been forthcoming, I have deleted the item. Please discuss here, if you think there is a proper case for its inclusion. Brianboulton (talk) 22:40, 28 May 2016 (UTC)==

Pronunciation of name
The pronunciation of Nansen's name is heavily anglicised both in the IPA and the phonetic English versions - the vowels ˈɪ' 'ɒ' and ˈæ' are all typically English, and hardly occur in Norwegian. Even in English, 'FRID-choff' is pretty mangled! To be consistent with other Wikipedia articles, I feel the original Norwegian pronunciation should be given first (in IPA and phonetic English), following by the common English pronunciation (which is the one given here). I leave the correct pronunciation to a native Norwegian-speaker, but I know enough of the language to know that this isn't correct.213.127.210.95 (talk) 14:39, 30 August 2016 (UTC)