Talk:Friends of the ABC

Members
on the relevance and verification of death specifics (those for Enjolras and Grantaire, specifically)

Given how character death is so relevant to the novel in this case, I added details for the circumstances/causes of death of each member in this edit. I do not suggest removing this information as I feel it adds to the value of the section/page with regards to its topic. However, though I am one of the only people editing/watching this page, I thought it would be courteous to bring this conversation to the table on the talk page, because one of the only people =/= the only person. Specifically, vis a vis whether or not Enjolras and Grantaire were hand in hand or holding hands when they died. In the original French text of Les Misérables as viewed on Project Gutenberg file 17519, cited as Les Misérables, Volume 5, Book First, Chapter 23 on the page, the full sentence detailing this is as follows:

Enjolras lui serra la main en souriant.

The relevant verb is 'serra'. This phrase can be translated as, Enjolras grasped [Grantaire's] hand and smiled, which is, I believe, where the holding hands perception arises from. It can also be translated as, Enjolras shook [Grantaire's] hand and smiled. The French verb 'serra'/'serrer' denotes either in its present usage. (Note that I am not a native French speaker.)

Published translations of the novel that I have read translate the verb with either usage, and the connotation in English of shaking hands is not usually the same as holding hands. Because there are differing translations, and this is the English Wikipedia article, I suggest that references to what their hands are doing be left out. It's more relevant, in my opinion, to their characters in the text and to this article, that Enjolras and Grantaire died alongside one another, whether they were shaking hands or holding hands. I plan to make this edit myself if I don't see objection on the talk page. Someone better versed in French than I am as a native English speaker may have valuable input. However, I do feel that because this is an article on Wikipedia, and not an article on a fan-centered Wikia platform, that the Members section as a whole ought to stay concise, clear, and easily cited/verified, because there are more than likely readers of this article who know very little about the novel itself. Lily nénuphar (talk) 06:07, 9 April 2016 (UTC)


 * I'm like 8 years late with this, but I would like to note that in the original handwritten manuscript by Hugo, Enjolras' last words are "take my hand," so it is likely they were holding hands. I can try to add a link if I can find it again. 2600:1700:74B2:E810:2DD7:DDC4:8493:57D3 (talk) 21:27, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

Added historical equivilance
Les Amis is based on a real political group Chefs-kiss (talk) 14:54, 8 September 2021 (UTC)