Talk:Frieze Art Fair

Comments
This article is bad--outset should be its own entry, and the 2006 entry needs updating. some history on the financing and relationship to frieze magazine, which also needs its own entry, ought to happen. 69.86.89.166 03:09, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I concur! Mindman1 04:59, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, get searching on google or wherever, add the info and provide the references! I've created Outset Contemporary Art Fund. Tyrenius (talk) 05:39, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

21:14, 4 June 2011 Artandlife(talk | contribs) (7,999 bytes) (Undid revision 432571437 by Luckykunst (talk)) (undo) Restored relevant, referenced, and factual information. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Artandlife (talk • contribs) 21:17, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

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 * Added archive https://archive.is/20130104193151/http://magazine.saatchionline.com/articles/debate-art-fairs-are-about-money-not-art to http://magazine.saatchionline.com/articles/debate-art-fairs-are-about-money-not-art

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External links modified
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I have just modified one external link on Frieze Art Fair. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110717002035/http://theglassmagazine.com/forum/feature.asp?tid=632 to http://theglassmagazine.com/forum/feature.asp?tid=632

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External links modified
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I have just modified one external link on Frieze Art Fair. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140110215340/http://www.ysp.co.uk/ysp-media/press-releases/ysps-clare-lilley-announced-as-frieze-sculpture-park-curator to http://www.ysp.co.uk/ysp-media/press-releases/ysps-clare-lilley-announced-as-frieze-sculpture-park-curator

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A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 20:37, 5 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Dog Breeder.jpg

Updating the Article
I would like to update the article as follows to include details of the 2021 London fairs. For some reason, 2 editors have reverted my sourced updates on the grounds that they are promotional. I know the article isn't great, but I can't understand why it is wrong or "promotional" to add details of last year's fairs. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Frieze_Art_Fair&type=revision&diff=1067521908&oldid=1067521202  ♥ L'Origine du monde ♥  ♥ Talk ♥ 23:14, 23 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I think the whole "facts" section should be removed not added to, it is list cruft, trivia and is entirely inappropriate with it's content "Space hire was £180 per meter." etc etc. Theroadislong (talk) 08:15, 24 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Theroadislong can you please explain why you want to delete this content, and why you deleted my edits clearly, and if possible with reference to wikipedia policies. I don't understand why you think the cost of the fair sourced to a reliable source is trivia or inappropriate, nor do I understand why you think it wrong to list all the fairs. Since you deleted my edit with a different reason I am even more puzzled.  ♥ L'Origine du monde ♥  ♥ Talk ♥ 12:23, 24 January 2022 (UTC)
 * , I agree with, all or almost all of the Facts section consists of unencyclopaedic trivia, much of it poorly sourced or without any sourcing at all, and much of it exemplifying what Wikipedia is not (the cost of a stand being a perfect example). I've tagged the page with Cleanup rewrite, as it seems to need to be fundamentally rewritten to make it encyclopaedic. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 12:51, 24 January 2022 (UTC)
 * User:Justlettersandnumbers I have renamed the "facts" section "Fairs" as it is a list of fairs. Please can you explain how the cost of renting a stand at an artfair, or the number of exhibitors, as repeatedly discussed in newspapers and other reliable sources is trivia, not to mention the dates of the fairs. You deleted my edit, which was sourced - was that because you do not think the art newspaper a reliable source?  ♥ L'Origine du monde ♥  ♥ Talk ♥ 13:00, 24 January 2022 (UTC)
 * The "Fairs" section could be reduced to a couple of paragraphs of sourced content rather than a gargantuan list of largely unsourced trivia. Theroadislong (talk) 13:02, 24 January 2022 (UTC)
 * User:Justlettersandnumbers Which exact parts of what Wikipedia is not are you referring to? Please can you explain exactly why you consider the cost or number of exhibitors triva - perhaps give some examples of important information. Do you think it wrong for the article to list all the fairs. I repeat my question about the source I used. ♥ L'Origine du monde ♥  ♥ Talk ♥ 13:04, 24 January 2022 (UTC)
 * This part I assume WP:INDISCRIMINATE? Theroadislong (talk) 13:12, 24 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Theroadislong could you please try to explain yourself better. The only relevant information there seems to be about presenting statistics, but you seem to be arguing against the inclusion of any statistics. ♥ L'Origine du monde ♥  ♥ Talk ♥ 13:28, 24 January 2022 (UTC)
 * "Excessive listings of unexplained statistics." is the part I was looking at. Theroadislong (talk) 13:39, 24 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Theroadislong and what relevant information did you see there? How do you think the statistics should be explained or presented? To me it seems sensible to present them by fair, but this is going away from your unexplained refusal to let me add the dates, exhibitor numbers, and stall rental cost statistics. I think it would be good to add visitor numbers and admission cost to the statistics listed, and possibly figures for the value of art exhibited- I have seen such for 2011.  ♥ L'Origine du monde ♥  ♥ Talk ♥ 13:48, 24 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I think it is beyond the remit of an encyclopedia article to add statistics like exhibitor numbers, dates and admission costs etc. for each fair. unsigned comment by Theroadislong
 * Theroadislong could you please explain why, and what exactly you think should be in the article. Surely simple facts have a place in an article! ♥ L'Origine du monde ♥  ♥ Talk ♥ 14:11, 24 January 2022 (UTC)
 * As advised on my talk page. Do what ever you like, I will remove Frieze Art Fair from my watch list it is in dire need of hacking back but I am not willing to deal with your bludgeoning attitude. Theroadislong (talk) 14:13, 24 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Thank you Theroadislong. I have added the sourced details of the last two fairs again. User:Justlettersandnumbers if you object to that edit please can you explain why in detail.  ♥ L'Origine du monde ♥  ♥ Talk ♥ 14:35, 24 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I have added this text to the lede. I hope it is an improvement.

"The London edition normally has about 160 exhibitors in Frieze. It is held over four days in a 40,000SqM tent. There is a simultaneous Frieze Masters event showing older work with about 130 exhibitors, and a temporary sculpture park."  ♥ L'Origine du monde ♥  ♥ Talk ♥ 15:21, 24 January 2022 (UTC)

Editing "Fairs" section
Just dropping in a rough visual draft of a new structure for the "Fairs" section before I implement it. If anyone has feedback, feel free to add feedback.

Fairs --Frieze Art Fair (Frieze London)-- Basic history, usual venue(s), notable features ---List of fairs--- Expandable table/list, with Year, # galleries, Notes/Notable facts --Frieze Masters-- Basic history, usual venue(s), notable features ---List of fairs--- Expandable table/list, with Year, # galleries, Notes/Notable facts ^repeat structure for Frieze NY, LA, and Seoul 19h00s (talk) 15:46, 15 July 2023 (UTC)