Talk:Fritzi Gordon

Naturalised
I'm sure Fritzi became a naturalised British citizen because without that she would not be eligible to play in a British team. However, I cannot find a direct reference for this at present. Macdonald-ross (talk) 21:01, 24 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Was Paul Gordon British (it sounds like a British name)? If so, wouldn't she have acquired his nationality on their marriage? JH (talk page) 21:29, 24 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes, I'm coming round to this. Females become Brit Cits by marriage, but in reverse case males do not! Macdonald-ross (talk) 14:47, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Do we know that Gordon was British? The text hints (only hints) he lived in Salzburg or Graz. --P64 (talk) 20:54, 8 September 2011 (UTC)
 * He may have been a reprentative for a company that exported goods to Austria, or something like that. I'm fairly sure that he was British, but will see if I can find anything that confirms it, and will also see if I can find out when Fritzi came to the UK. JH (talk page) 21:16, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

Our quotation from Markus 1992 implies that she was a war-time alien: "Paul served in the war with the Pioneer Corps so Fritzi was freed of all restrictions imposed on aliens." --P64 (talk) 01:59, 27 June 2014 (UTC)
 * It sounds from the wording of the article as though she came to Britain with Gordon shortly after Anschluss but before the outbreak of war. If Paul Gordon had still been in Austria when war broke out, I imagine that (if British) he would have been interned as an enemy alien, so it would have made sense to get out if they thought that war was coming. As Pail served with the Pioneer Corps, I would think that would mean that he was British rather than Austrian (to return to an earlier question). Regarding her place of birth, it sounds as though Truscott might have missed her move from Vienna to Graf and just assumed that she was born in Graf. JH (talk page) 08:09, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

Austrian bridge player
Do we know anything about Frederika Leist as an Austrian bridge player? (She is on a wiki list of sporting stars who changed nationality, but that is entirely unreferenced, undocumented in Talk, and I doubt that the bridge section implies competitive notability in or representation of the first country. It lists George Rosenkranz Hungary=>Mexico & USA.) If Paul Stern knew her as a bridge player in Austria even that is notable.

Pre-War, the WBF/EBL database —BRIDGE PEOPLE at WBF integrated with tournament results, but the wrong interface for impersonal tournament results — covers only European champion Women, only first and second place Open. It picks up World championships only in 1950. If Fritzi emigrated prior to the 1938 European championships, that covers her play for Austria at the Euro level (negative), because Austria won all three earlier Euro championships. Neither Leist brother is in the WBF/EBL database, but it does not cover British (international play among home countries) or South American tournaments.

(belated signature) --P64 (talk) 22:25, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

NYT obituary
I've managed to find Alan Truscott's NYT obituary:. From it, we should be able to work out her precise date of death. JH (talk page) 09:28, 9 September 2011 (UTC)


 * I agree, "Saturday" was February 8. [1992 deathdate]
 * I added some other bits from Truscott to the article. Unfortunatley it's a mere bridge column of obituary nature, whereas he did write some obituaries of bridge people.
 * Truscott counts only 3 World and 7 Euro championships. She does have 4 and 8 as we say in the WBF database; only 7 Euro (women teams, all) in the WBF comprehensive biography(haha) which skips 1966. I suppose 8 is correct, unless her play in that tournament was limited for some reason.
 * Truscott gives the Graz birthplace.
 * [JH has replied #Naturalised|above.]
 * -P64 01:59, 27 June 2014‎
 * General notice. WBF Master Points (wbfmasterpoints.com) is better maintained than the main WBF website on some points. For example, it now lists Bep Vriend #20 among Women Grand Masters while the main site lists her #9  --down only from #8 since April 2011, relying on our biog, presumably lacking update for 2013 if not also 2012.
 * There is no WBF Master Points record for Gordon, however. See the first homepage link "Pre-2002 deceased player records rebuilt" ... that material now shows WBF Master Points records for 61 old players have been rebuilt, including Rixi Markus but not yet her partner. (Rixi Markus rebuilt) (provisional all-time WBF Women)
 * --P64 (talk) 17:18, 27 June 2014 (UTC)


 * I copied and extended this General notice at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Contract bridge, as a reply to my preceding notice there. That's a better place for what is general rather than specific to Gordon or Gordon–Markus. --P64 (talk) 16:22, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

Partnership with Rixi Markus
(quote) "Gordon's tournament bridge career began after World War II, and her first partnership with Markus began half-way through the European Championships of 1950. In 1955 they agreed to form a regular partnership,[ref: Markus gave various dates for the event. One is 1955...]"

First partnership? Beyond clarification we also need a source for 1950. The WBF/EBL database does not credit Markus with play in the Euro Teams (1950 Women Great Britain; cf. 1951). Did she play with Gordon in emergency, but too little to qualify on the record? Or play in a secondary event? Or did they first pair in 1951? etc

--P64 (talk) 18:09, 27 June 2014 (UTC)


 * I've checked in the British Bridge Almanack to see which European Championships both of them played in. Of course both being in the same team doesn't necessarily mean that they partnered each other. They both played in 1951 (Britain won), 1952 (Britain won), and then in many years from 1955 onwards. In 1950 and 1954 only Gordon played, and in 1953 neither played. So it seems that the 1950 in the quote should read either 1951 or 1952. The BBA obituary of Gordon (on page 190, by Albert Dormer) says "but her partnership with the innately-talented Rixi Markus did not begin until 1951". So it seems that 1951 is the correct date. JH (talk page) 20:42, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

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