Talk:From First to Last/Archive 1

Vandalism
Wierd. When I click on "From First To Last" there's no vandalism,but when I click on "Sonny Moore" (redict to From First To Last) there is vandalism. When go to fix it,everything is alright. Is Wikipedia falling apart?

Viral marketing
Hmmmm I smell Viral marketing... Megapixie 09:00, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

Picture change
Someone should change the picture to the Halloween one on their MySpace profile, seeing as how it's got Wes Borland instead of the other guy now I think it'd be more appropriate. I'd upload it, but I don't have an account.

Wes Borland isnt in the band, he just recorded the bass on their new album.. They have some girl filling in right now, and are looking for a permanent replacement for Jon. Reiver 03:30, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

someone really should get a new picture. they have some promo ones on their website.-emokid

FYI: The tour fill-in's name is Alicia! -Emogoth

Um actually its Alicia Simmons. -Someone who knows what they are talking about.

Nuetrality?
The following:

"From First To Last is one of few emo bands that are actually considered real (not posers) and on the media's good side... for now [...]"

...does not seem like something a credible encyclopedia would state.

I deleted the above text. It's about as far from NPOV as you can get. 216.15.79.70 21:13, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

Forget NPOV it's a pretty damn stupid thing to say... I mean, whats the difference between a real emo band and posing as an emo band, and FFTL aren't even emo anyway --Gpmuscillo 12:51, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Wes Borland
I think we should add him as a permanent member. He's said on the Black Light Burns MySpace (which he operates) that he'll definitely be working with them on their next album, and he's on tour with them again at the moment. Opinions? - Nova Prime 11:33, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Sounds like a plan -Myxomatosis 19:32, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Wes Borland isn't an official member, he just helps them out with bass from time to time, so no, not until anything official is said. --Gpmuscillo 17:14, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Band Members MySpace
Please do not put links to the bands(Sonny, Matt..etc) MySpace. They reserve what right they have to their privacy. Thank you.


 * Utter idiocy, it's a social networking site. I've just added their MySpace profiles to their individual pages anyway. - Nova Prime 08:33, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Semi-protection?
Almost every edit from those without accounts is either useless or vandalism. It's not that it's super frequent, just extremely tedious to revert. I'm not going to request semi-protection, because I don't know how anyone else feels, but if anyone wants to: see Semi-protection policy. Otherwise, voice your opinion here. - Nova Prime 08:33, 27 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree with you. -Myxomatosis 19:09, 27 May 2006 (UTC)


 * That's good enough for me. - Nova Prime 16:28, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

keep it
this article is good, please keep it that way. please nobody change FFTL's genre its good at "post-hardcore." - LemonxSmoothie


 * It's hardly 'ggod' as articles go. Western Front (World War I) is a good article - this is a WP:Stub, and barely more than a collection of half-hearted, unverified facts! Get to it, troops! HawkerTyphoon 19:24, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Warped Tour
FFTL dropped Warped Tour. They ended up not playing in Orlando on the 25th. They were there but they didnt preform because something was wrong with Sonny's throat so his voice was all messed up. But he is having surgery today. All though FFTL might not be able to finish the tour because Sonny has to recover.-LemonxSmoothie June 28,2006

yeah and they were kicked off (atreyu everytime i die and chiodos) tour, they didnt drop. the qoute you put afterwards contradicts what you said...*not being rude* - Savanah1017

Who merged the band members pages?
Now there's no info on any of them. It's all gone.

They seem important enough to have their own pages. someone should put them back up.Dizzydark 19:19, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

At least we should give moore a page, theres trivia about him on the bottom of the band page. that or delete the trivia, it has nothing to do with the band. Dizzydark 13:45, 9 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I think Sonny should have a page at least. It existed for a while, but was merged to this article for a reason I don't know. He is notable enough if people repeatedly try to make him an article. I'll re-do his page unless people find a reason why not to. -Lindsey8417 07:16, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Since no one seems to be able to figure out how to get their pages back, someone (or me if I can get this "editing" thing down straight) could go ahead and add their biographies to the From First To Last page. I don't think anything would be wrong with doing that and all it would do is make the band's page longer. MusicGirl21 21:21, 18 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I removed the articles, as none of the people are notable enough to have thjeir own article just yet - they are famous for the band, and nothing Else. If they leave this band, and move onto another equally popular one, that's grounds for seperate articles, but as it stands they aren't famous enough. Might I also add that we're writing an encyclopædia - a trivia section doesn't really fit.... Have a look at WP:MoS and see what it says about them. HawkerTyphoon 23:20, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Songs
what about the songs? they kick ass

Okay so these are all off of their new album Heroine.

Afterbirth is about Sonny finding out he was adopted when he was 16.

Heroine is about Sonny calling to his mom...or something.

Waltz Moore is about Sonny's battle with bulimia. Sonny is a strong little ninja So dont give him shit.

Oh yeah, World War Me is NOT about bulimia.

Then explain the lyrics "we'll starve down to the bone, we're lookin' better bony, who needs figure anyways?" and "i'm on the road to self destruction, suffering because i gave up on myself and everyone?" - someone who knows what their talking about

its about the self damage people are willing to do to themselves to perfect themselves... you can only have one bulima song per album. dont u know the hxc rules???lol j.k. ...i think... *btw ur lyrics are wrong*--Savanah1017 02:43, 15 December 2006 (UTC)savanah1017

oh really you know what youre talking about? huh well lemme set you straight. first of all get the lyrics right. its "let's starve down to the bone." and then its "im on the verge of  self destruction." yeah so if im mistaken please explain this: "On a more hidnostic tip, "world war me" is about self destruction, getting wasted, kissing your cares away, and fucking girls." yeah this was taken frm an article in june.

see for yourself.

http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/4671/decibel9qa.jpg

oooooh nice qoute! sounds like sonny, or maybe me. lolSavanah1017 02:43, 15 December 2006 (UTC) savanah1017

first of all, self destruction is things like eating disorders. and dont rag on people for their interpritations. its just a song. Emopunk 01:55, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

haha isnt it pathetic how people get all pissed off over the internet? yeah well i guess if youre looking at it from that perspective, you are technically right. "...and dont rag on people for their interpritations. its just a song." you said it yourself, so maybe you should remmeber what you said. have a nice day kid.

good point...and i think the artists shouldnt tell the kids what the songs mean. they should interpret their own speacial meaning to the songs. and if yours sounds is theirs, then good for you. i always thought of afterbirth as a song about escape... but for sonny its about adoption...Savanah1017 02:43, 15 December 2006 (UTC) savanah1017

not screamo
from first to last is not screamo. Just because they scream a parts of songs does not make them screamo. Now if they screamed thoughout an entire song then that would be a different story.

Not nu-metal
ITS NOT NUMETAL ITS POST-HARDCORE!! plain and simple. Its nothinging like numetal or any numetal bands. Does FFTL sound like Disturbed? or Slipknot? or mudvayne??? NO, ITS NOT NUMETAL!

Whoever keeps putting nu-metal as one of FFTL's genres should stop. Just because they incorporate more metallic sounds ino Heroine does not mean they are nu-metal. Post-hardcore already incorporates the fact that bands such as FFTL are influenced by punk, hardcore, metal, etc. Ender1490 14:52, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

i can see why they would think it's nu-metal, because wes borland is the ex-guitarist of limp bizkit, which epitomizes nu-metal. then again, most people would say i'm wrong for saying fftl is emo, (which isn't necessarily a bad thing) so i don't see why they would believe me if i said it wasn't nu-metal.

their post-hardcore. not nu-metal. not emo. their post-hardcore. plain and simple. Dizzydark 21:33, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

--- Well, is it really that difficult to realize?
 * 1. Can't you hear the heavier tuning they're using now?(completely characteristic of Nu Metal)
 * 2. What about such influences as Slipknot and Korn?(I know this doesn't exactly mean anything, but it's relevant)
 * 3. When you listen to the song "Heroine", doesn't it remind you some songs (like "Minerva" or "Change") of the Nu Metal band Deftones?(especially the "ooh ooh ooh" part at the end)
 * 4. The current bass player is a "Nu Metaller".
 * 5. "The Latest Plague" is absolutely New Metal! Starts with synth and then it has a heavy base guitar at the chorus, while Sonny sings and Travis shouts.
 * 6. The electronic experimentation in "Waves Goodbye" isn't like SOOO Linkin Park?! (If you say it isn't, oh god, kill yourself)
 * 7. Sonny's vocals are much less "emo/post-hc/teen" now
 * 8. Do you really think that Heroine perfectly fits the Post-hc genre? I mean, is it close to "Dear Diary"? Is it close to Alexisonfire? Or to Glassjaw? Do you think that the band's style is EXACTLY the same, they didn't change anything?!
 * 9. Even in an old song called "Christmassacre" they would show Nu Metal tendencies (This song is very Slipknot style)
 * 10. "The Levy" shows that they even have Industrial Rock influences.. (one of the closest-to-Nu Metal genres)
 * 11 and Last. I'm not removing Post-HC or anything, I'm just adding Nu Metal 'cause they have shown many tendencies to this style in their last album. After all I wrote now, don't you think it is acceptable?

Thanks. (Dud - 19 Sept 2006)

i still dont think their nu metal. but i definatly think there not just post hardcore. theres definatly some sort of experimental thing with heroine, but this is also a page for the band overall, not just now. they have been post hardcore for a long time, even if they arent now. Dizzydark 21:44, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

So what? I'm not changing it to JUST "Nu Metal", I'm simply ADDING Nu Metal do the band's genre. (Dud - 26 Sept 2006)

there's just ine thing that doesn't convince me. there's no rapping. and as far as i know, they always rap in nu-metal.Dizzydark 00:53, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, Nu-Metal always maks me think of Linkin Park. Redspark09 12:47, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Oh, really?! Then tell me, when did System of a Down rap? (Dud - 03 Oct 2006)

Never heard of them, don't get off on people for their oppionions. Redspark09 19:55, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

anyways, i always thought they were alternative metal. but thats just me. i dont want to have some huge stupid thing about genre on this page, so unless you can prove it, i say dont add it. Dizzydark 22:41, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

i never thought of them as nu metal or any form of metal at first but they do seem to have somewhat of a nu metal sound but i dont think it should be put as their genre. i think its should be removed but mentioned in the article. think of this, since when are nu metal bands scheduled to play at the warped tour. 64.12.116.67 00:40, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

i'll agree with that one. Dizzydark 19:48, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Same Redspark09 00:09, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

The thing is all the members of From First To Last have differant choices in music. The all have differant influences and thats what makes them great and thats what makes them so hard to give a genre -Someone who knows

i changed the emocore genre back to post-hardcore. there is no proof that they are emocore. if you want to add a genre, or change it, please have a source.Dizzydark 00:58, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Read the screamo page people. FFTL does not comepare to Hot Cross, Saetia or Envy. Ambrosia

SOAD? soad aren't nu metal, just like they aren't prog rock revival or anything like that. and i do agree, there's a difference between nu metal and rap metal, but still, i really think they're just not nu meta. experimenting a bit with some nu metal ideas doesn't make you nu metal, and the fact that they had rap vocals in the hidden track on dear diary doesn't make them rap metal either. polease, leave it at post-hardcore, it's fine, that's about the closest you'll get to it. --Gpmuscillo 14:51, 28 December 2006 (UTC)\

They are not nu-metal,"Richter and Good’s songwriting veered from missionary style post-emo to dramatic industrial rock and progressive art-punk." that is a quote from their band page, they are not nu-metal it's more industrial not metal, if you listen to industrial music they sound more like industrial bands. They genres are mostly punk/emo/metal like it states in this article. http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/4671/decibel9qa.jpg (Jan.8.07 19:36)

i was thinking along the lines of somthing like proggressive hardcore or somthing,,, but industrial'll work well too.Dizzydark 21:23, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

"Save Us" - Heroine B-Side?
Where did whoever put that up get that information? I can't find anything about a Heroine B-Side anywhere on the internet. If someone can find some info on it, I'll put it back up. -- Boa  Drummer   20:51, 22 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I don't know if it's on their website, but Alternative Press had an article on FFTL in the 100 Bands of 2006 issue and it mentioned that the band co-wrote the song, Save Us, with fill in bassist Wes Borland. So far, it's unreleased, but AP did say it was a b-side to Heroine. Ender1490 04:03, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I see. Must have missed that in the article. Do you think it belongs there, though? We don't know anything about it being released, so should it be in the article? -- Boa  Drumm  er   02:14, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

nu metal?
im not like trying to get in a huge argument over this but, seems like there is only one person who thinks FFTL is nu-metal. nowhere that I've seen has mentioned anything about nu-metal, on both FFTL's Epitaph Records page and on their Purevolume page they are said as "post-hardcore, screamo, and punk" so if you have found some source like that that says FFTL is nu-metal, please provide it. Thanks - 70.119.6.138 21:45, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

I agree with leaving it as "Post harcore". It seems to me these days as bands come out with unique, or slightly different sounds everyone is too quick to pin down what exact genre it is. Genre to me is like religion ... whether it exists or not, there is too much argument over it. I say leave it how it is.


 * "post Hardcore" = "emo 2.0". Fun music, though. HawkerTyphoon 21:51, 17 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Isn't 'post hardcore' just a euphemism for 'screamo' anyway? Regardless, the band is far from nu metal, no question. Nova Prime 19:14, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

post-hardcore is the current term for the space between emo and screamo. they'll come up with a better name soon enough. - anythingbutthatone

post hardcore is just current hardcore punk.Dizzydark 21:23, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Matt Good Quote About Lack Of Interest?
i have never seen that anywhere before.. and the person who put it up did not have an account.. i am trying to find out if it's true at the moment, but i am keeping it up for the meantime. - XAndiex

I haven't seen that before either. I think it was put up by someone who dislikes the band. - xanythingxbutxthatxonex

Matt Good
Why does Matt good not get his own page?

yeah good question.

because he's not important enough for one. moore really shouldn't have one eaither, at least not until their major-label deput.Emopunk 01:57, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Yeah he should cuz hes really hot :P--65.9.47.129 21:41, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

encyclopedia pages aren't given to people just because someone thinks their hot. idiots. Dizzydark 21:50, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Why the hell does he have a page? O_O No one else in the band other than Matt Good has a page. Plus the page has some very... errr... interesting facts that seem more like opinions O_o And if I knew how to I would change the page to go back to the FFTL page but I'm new here and can't find out how. -Nikki Te Emo Cupcake

!!
Well, Sonny Moore's page got deleted, and it was supposed to be MERGED with this paged, it was for like a day, then deleted. His page didn't say it was going to be deleted, but merged with From First to Last, so I'm changing it back so he can have his section.

look. there is no reason for putting the entire article up on this page. this is a page for the band, not individual people. theres enough information on him in the article, more than anyone else has. so unless you can put up information about the history of everyone else in the band, then dont put all that pointless crap. Dizzydark 03:31, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

The Color Of Violence
can someone add the sources for this. it'd be helpful and i'd like to know. thanks. Dizzydark 01:43, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Oohh, I know! Travis and Derek are in the color of violence! They have a song called ihaterice.... on they're myspace, the headline is "All of our friends are asian." I think....

Picture
What is with the current picture?! It's not the band but it's random people wrestling, yet it it's under a From First to Last promo picture. Someone fix it because everytime I upload something it is said to be illegal but if someone uploads the same picture it is kept!! Well somebody put a new picture up. coocooforcocopuffs

zack dwight?
somehow, i dont think any 14-year-old kid named zach dwight is drumming for FFTL. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.41.85.28 (talk) 01:46, 9 December 2006 (UTC).

it was just some vandel. 75.19.112.170 19:44, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Genre
FFTL is not screamo, I keep taking it out but someone keeps putting it back in. Listen to Heavyheavylowlow, The Number twelve looks like you, or Ed Gein. They are screamo, not this band.

I think it's better as "Screamo/Post-hardcore" than "Emo", which someone keeps labelling them as. FFTL are NOT emo. If Panic!, Fall Out Boy, Taking Out Sunday, etc, are emo, then how the hell can you lump FFTL in with them, or AFI? --Gpmuscillo 17:12, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

if FFTL is screamo, im a monkey's uncle. cant they just be emo/alternative or something-

I agree with emo/alt as their genre. Panic!, Fall Out Boy, and Taking Back Sunday are NOT emo. Get your facts straight.

Pfft! They are totally not emo/alt. Maybe if you launch most of their songs on to different media players then average it out. You might get an answer *currently doing that* - Henjinx

FFTL IS EMO. Fall out boy and panic at the disko USED to be Emo, then they got more poular, and mainstream and became more of Alt type bands.

Sorry guys, but FFTL isn't emo. Bands like Thursday, Amber Pacific, and so many more are emo. FFTL is fucking Post-Hardcore. I know hardly any people that know of FFTL, and everyone knows about the emo bands. Please quit disgracing us all with your idiocy. -Emy

Tour Controversy
This section needs a lot of work mainly due to POV bias and no sources. Acidskater 17:13, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

More Vandilism
someone put "From First to Last (shortened into FFTL) is an American Shitty Emo band." i fixed it. yeah and someone else put "more on the departure of sonny moore at a recent concert with From First To Last one lucky kid got to share a few minutes with Matt Good and matt replied about the departure as the best thing that could ever happen and even went down to say that the only reason they hired him was for sex appeal." i took it out. hhahaha but seriously?? that was really gay becasue the last show they played was last ocotber on the world championship tour with atreyu, EITD, and chiodos, and that was like 5 months before sonny quit.

under the heroine artile someone put "The band went to Weed, California to record their second album, produced by Ross Robinson."

Record Label?
I'm posting without an account, because i flat out forgot all my log in info. Aside, on the band's myspace blog from Travis Richter, he states they worked with their friend Jordan Schur, who has become their new manager and has signed them to his record label Suretone Records, and what i understand, a sub of Interscope.

I'm going to assume
that most of the people who go to this page are fucking morons. honestly, Nu-Metal? please. just leave it at "post-hardcore" or "american rock band" or something. my god. stupid people. genres aren't even important.

as for the whole "emocore" thing that's garbage and probably just some 13 year old with a metallica shirt who has nothing better to do then make fun of music he doesn't like.

grow up people. go vandalize HH or something. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 209.78.202.2 (talk) 23:52, 29 March 2007 (UTC).

Emocore!?
FFTL's isn't emocore dear friends -.-'

89.152.244.21 17:07, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

I agree. The term "Emocore" is pretty stupid too. The band's second album "Heroine" is more like metal, though their previous albums would fall under Post-Hardcore. I suggest Metal is added as their main genre; The band (namely Travis) have said they don't like the whole emo label. And the previews of their new content from short videos sound very metal. I'm sure if it were changed to Metal a ton of kids would come along and still change it back to "Emocore" or something, so I don't know. Anyone got any ideas?

EACH MEMBER
needs their own page! They shouldn't have been deleted in the first place. And someone deleted Sonny's page. WTF? He's not even in the bands anymore.Arson5000


 * Each member is not notable enough to deserve their own page - all they've done is been in this band. And don't shout out 'but look at the other articles' - you have to prove notability per the guidelines, not per other articles. Hawker Typhoon 23:40, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

I do think that Sonny Moore at least needs a page... He is no longer in the band, and he has a solo project coming out soon. I mean, if the other members have not done anything other than the band then no, they dont need a page. But Sonny has nothing to do with the band now (as far as I know) and he reopened is myspace and has songs on there that are nothing like fftl's songs. These songs (and his solo project) need to be written about, but as they have nothing to do with From First to Last, both them and Sonny need their own page.

Album Cover??
what is depicted on the cd cover of "Dear Diary, My Teen Agnst has a body count"

i've been wondering, does anybody know?

they're meant to be pallbearers aka people who carry coffins. (if you look at the poster which came with the cd spread out there are three of them seen holding a coffin) - XAndiex

rumors
About that 14 year old, yeah there is absolutely no way that would ever happen. I mean how many 14 year old drummers are ever that good? Another thing, if I hear one more rumor about Sonny quiting FFTL I will scream. It wasn't because he overdosed on drugs, it wasn't because he got married, and it wasn't because he wants to quit music forever. This happens all the time with other types of music.So why can't it happen with them? Just saying, though. i cant remember the last time ive seen my own eyes 19:42, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Sonny Moore left the band,it isn't a rumor.