Talk:Frost Belt

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Okay, New Jersey, Maryland, Delaware, Pennsylvania, and the northern part of Virginia are definitely part of the Frost Belt. I'm not sure who got the idea that the Frost Belt ends at Harrisburg, but this map needs to be reverted.

--->Traditionally, in climate circles (I studied meterology and geography in college) the Frost Belt has been considered to consist of the parts of the United States that posses a Humid continental climate by the Koppen climate classification. These areas typically receive more than 25 inches of snow per winter, have frost on more than 65 days a year, and have an average annual low temperature below 47 degrees fahrenheit. Philadelphia, PA is really on the border of the two regions, as it lies on the transition from Humid subtropical climate to continental. It averages frost 62 days a year, which is not enough for this classification, but the average annual low in Philly is 46 degrees, within limits. So sources vary on Philadelphia. Baltimore, on the other hand, experiences frost only 50 days a year, receives less than 20 inches of snow annually, and has an annual low temperature of 51 degrees, with average January low hovering barely below the freezing point. So while southeastern PA lies in the transition zone and could possibly be included in the Frost Belt, Central Maryland and Northern Virginia are unquestionably a part of the humid subtropical climate zone, and are not traditionally considered Frost Belt cities (although they are very close to the Frost Belt.)<-

Pennsylvania is in the Frost Belt, but Maryland, Delaware, and New Jersey's winters are very mild and don't get alot of snow compared to places farther north. My question is though, why doesn't the map have the frost belt go to the West like the Sun Belt does? Wyoming, Montana, Idaho, and the Eastern halves of Oregon and Washington are definitely part of the Frost Belt.70.104.123.20 13:05, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

The reason the Frost Belt doesn't traditionally extend to the West (like the Sun Belt) is because frost is a particular weather phenomenon that requires both low temperatures and high levels of moisture to occur. Some areas, like from Maryland south, don't have low temperatures in winter for long enough periods of time to have frost often, and areas out west, like Denver, have plenty of cold temperatures, but the air is too dry to produce frost on most winter nights. The Frost Belt is the part of the United States that has the perfect combination of cold winter temperatures and high levels of moisture in winter. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Strongbad1982 (talk • contribs) 20:48, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

What?
"Some areas, like from Maryland south, don't have low temperatures in winter for long enough periods of time to have frost often"

I don't know who wrote this, but it illustrates a total disconnect from reality. This is a very persistent problem on Wikipedia: people with very little knowledge of what they’re talking about espouse their ideas as if they’re the truth, when in fact they couldn’t be farther off.

Anyone who’s been to Maryland will tell you that it’s horribly cold every winter—and a quick look at a climate chart reveals that the average winter temperatures for supposedly “subtropical” Baltimore are within a few degrees of those for New York.

Maryland IS part of the Frost Belt. From October until about April it’s very dark and very cold.

A few degrees difference is all that climate really is. Humid subtropical (Cfa) Baltimore's avg January low is 29 degrees, six degrees higher than the average for NYC (which is a Dfa Humid Continental climate.) Atlanta is also subtropical (Cfa), and has an average January low of 29 degrees. Seattle has a Marine West Coast climate (Cfb), and an average January low just 7 degrees higher, at 36 degrees. Albuquerque is a semi-arid steppe climate (Bsk) and has an average low in January of 24 degrees.

Point is, when the climate zones were created by Vladimir Köppen, he used subtleties to distinguish certain climates from others, not only including temperature but precipitation, humidity, prevailing wind patterns, and many other factors.

Even though the low temperatures of Baltimore, Seattle, New York and Albuquerque are within 7 degrees of each other, NY experiences 80 days of frost per winter, while Baltimore has 49, Seattle has 35, and Albuquerque has 15.

I'll quote this:

This is a very persistent problem on Wikipedia: people with very little knowledge of what they’re talking about espouse their ideas as if they’re the truth, when in fact they couldn’t be farther off.

Couldn't be more right. Someone that just claims "Maryland is very dark and very cold from October to April" without providing and data has very little knowledge and shouldn't just be making claims. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Strongbad1982 (talk • contribs) 22:00, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

You absolute moron, I actually lived there for sixteen years, which is why this is making me so angry. I've seen first hand what the climate is like and this theoretical nonsense is not going to sway me. Maryland is considered part of the Frost Belt. I've been called a Yankee in Virginia, which is one state away. I stayed in Connecticut as a child and found the climatic differences between New Haven and Baltimore to be indistinguishable. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.174.52.2 (talk) 02:49, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Cute. Name calling. And still, no data or sources for any claims whatsoever. I'm not going to mention who the actual moron is here, everybody can plainly see it. Except one person, evidently. --Strongbad1982 05:45, 26 September 2007 (UTC)