Talk:Fu Manchu

Fixes
fixed a couple spelling errors. --xiaou

It should be noted that Ra's Al Ghul has similarities with Fu Manchu.

Lazarus Pit=Elixir Vitae Si-Fan=League of Assassins Talia=Fah Lo Suee

Anything else come to mind?


 * The Shadow's Shiwan Khan, several Oriental villians in Doc Savage, Marvel Comic's The Mandarin... It was a common stereotype in the pulps. CFLeon 01:23, 5 January 2006 (UTC)


 * There were many Oriental villians in early pulps, many with 'Fu Manchu'-like names- 'Wu Fang', etc. Fu has also appeared unnamed in some Sherlock Holmes pastiches, is the basis of Doc Brass's associate, Hark, etc.  129.188.33.221 19:07, 9 January 2006 (UTC)emb021


 * Why was the Marvel Comics reference removed? It is as valid, if not more, as the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen reference; its use was authorizhed by the copyright owners and he was a major character in the Master of Kung Fu series. At the least, a link to Shang-Chi should be allowed. Wilfredo Martinez 14:21, 23 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I was expecting to see a reference to Ming the Merciless from the Flash Gordon franchise mentioned as having been inspired by the Fu Manchu character. McGehee 01:35, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Wording
In the last sentence of the "Characters" section, should it be said that China was "liberated by Communism"?--68.46.187.78 (talk) 23:02, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Fu Manchu's Chinese name?
I'm very much sure that Fu refers to this: 福, but does anyone know what Manchu is supposed to be in Chinese characters? Is it mentioned in the movies or anywhere? --Andylkl [ talk! 12:29, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
 * The article strongly implies that the second name is Manchu, a Manchurian, a countryman or member of the Qing dynasty, and I believe this correct. What characters that may be I do not know, but a English-Chinese dictionary should tell you. JCScaliger 04:43, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Why would Fu Manchu would have a Chinese name? He was created as a Yellow Peril villain at a time when Europeans/European-Americans didn't really care about Chinese.  Sax Rohmer most likely mashed together some Chinese-looking words to produce the name. --ColourBurst 04:04, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm sure it's 傅满洲. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.27.35.60 (talk) 09:12, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
 * If "Fu Manchu" was a title of honor, which meant "the Warlike Manchu." is in fact true or the original intention, the name should be "Wu Manchu", and 武满洲. This is pure OR but it would be in keeping with a meglomaniac character as 武 is most commonly used as a honorific for founding emperorsKTo288 (talk) 14:04, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

The Chinese Wikipedia lists six versions: The author didn't speak Chinese and probably just put together a few sounds. Fu is a common surname. There was a writer named Su Manshu (蘇曼殊) as well. Sheila1988 (talk) 21:33, 14 November 2018 (UTC)
 * 傅满洲 Fù Mǎnzhōu
 * 福滿洲 Fú Mǎnzhōu
 * 傅滿族 Fù Mǎnzú
 * 福滿族 Fú Mǎnzú
 * 傅滿人 Fù Mǎnrén
 * 福滿人 Fú Mǎnrén

"Fu Manchu" is the only name of the fictional character (who is also referred to as The Devil Doctor). He is not given a Chinese name in the novels, and there does not appear to be any indication that the author was capable of giving him a Chinese name. Indeed, the article claims (without citing any reference) that, according to the author's biographer and former assistant, "Fu Manchu" was a title of honor, which referred to "the warlike Manchu". But that may be purely speculation.

Here is what the first novel has to say about his name:

...assuming that the name were not an assumed one, he clearly can have been no anti-Manchu...

This tells us:

1. The narrator, Petrie, confesses that he can only make assumptions about the name.

2. He assumes it is the birth name ("not an assumed one"), that 'Manchu' refers to the ethnic group, and that The Devil Doctor is a member of this ethnic group ("he clearly can have been no anti-Manchu").

Looking at encyclopedia entries on Manchu names, 'Manchu' appears to be a highly unlikely given name for a member of the Manchu ethnic group. So Petrie's assumptions about The Devil Doctor's name should be viewed as being as credible as his assumptions about race.

Chinese-language media on Fu Manchu undoubtedly gave him a Chinese name - maybe 傅满洲. But whatever name he was given is a transliteration, a translated name, just as the author's (assumed) name - Sax Rohmer is translated as 薩克斯·羅默. Why should the English Wikipedia article give only the Chinese translation - and not the Korean, Russian, or Arabic?

Why does this matter? Because Fu Manchu is a fictional character, not a Chinaman, only a product of an early 20th-century Englishman's imagination. To assign a Chinese name to him not only violates Wikipedia's prohibition of original research, but also risks blurring the line between fact and white supremacist fiction. Zahzuhzaz (talk) 17:02, 1 June 2023 (UTC)


 * Since no support for the Chinese name has been given it has been removed, to comply with No original research. Zahzuhzaz (talk) 13:40, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Racism
We should mention how this character is considered to be a racist stereotype by many people today. He's, as the description said, supposed to be "yellow peril" incarnate. Full Shunyata 06:33, 16 October 2006 (UTC) I don't think any Manchurian people take offense or know who he even is.


 * Cut from article:


 * has become controversial as an example of racism found frequently in Western representations of the Chinese at that time. The character


 * I'm not saying he's an "accurate" stereotype or a "good" one, but where is the controversy?


 * The word Controversy is not a synonym for condemnation but means (especially at Wikipedia) that there are two opposing views. Who says the Fu Manchu is an accurate or otherwise useful, valuable or worthwhile model? And who says it's not, or has other objections? --Uncle Ed 20:41, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Isn't Fu more a representation of Qing dynasty Tartary rather than Han Chinese?

And again with all the racism that only white people can be criminals. Newsflash - there are Chinese criminals. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.216.125.204 (talk) 21:59, 18 October 2015 (UTC)

Reputation in China
So what have the Chinese themselves thought about Fu Manchu over the years. Anything? I could see them dismissing him as a foreign stereotype, or adopting him as a hero.

Cranston Lamont 17:02, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

His dream of a strong China is appealing. Vengeance against the western powers that humiliated China is also appealing. That he's tall with an imposing presence, and even better at western medicine than any westerner, Fu Manchu is quite the role model. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.143.70.224 (talk) 06:28, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
 * As a matter of fact, Fu Manchu is barely known in China. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.247.159.145 (talk) 17:58, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

As far as I'm aware, most Chinese are slightly amused by him as a racist stereotype. He's not particularly known beyond that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.29.74.89 (talk) 21:11, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

According to an article by Richard Bernstein in The New York Review of Books, the Fu Manchu books were banned in China during Chiang Kai-shek's rule. Link here (Subscription required:) http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2010/oct/28/very-superior-chinaman/ 176.61.97.121 (talk) 17:07, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

movie for the 21st century
does anyone know if any movie studio has plans to make another fu manchu movie for the 21st century? anyone?

---Spanish director Alex de la Iglesia said in an interview during the late nineties that he was preparing for a new Fu Manchu film which was to be shot on location in Asia. Does anybody know anything more?--80.133.199.101 15:00, 5 January 2007 (UTC) ---The de la Iglesia project is dead. Another project by Distant Horizons is in development. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.212.21.104 (talk) 19:53, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

Racist?
Some people say the stereotype is racist. I'm Chinese but I haven't read those books yet. Is that true the author wrote them because of his racism? WooyiTalk, Editor review 04:56, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

The author was a man of his times, so Fu Manchu is intended to be racist. The author made Fu Manchu a respectable and capable antagonist though. From his writings the author doesn't see Fu Manchu as an inferior human like a racist viewpoint, but he is a great enemy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.143.70.224 (talk) 06:30, 14 December 2007 (UTC) In as much as racism is the result of fear of the unlike, it is a racist work. However, it should be noted that part of that fear is of a Chinese character that shatters the prevailing racist stereotype of the early twentieth century. Dr. Fu Manchu is a genius, tall, commanding, and honorable at all times. The inherent tragedy, from the narrator's viewpoint, is that he is politically opposed to European imperialism as he is the moral and intellectual superior of the protagonists. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.212.21.104 (talk) 19:57, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

I recall reading "The Drums of Fu Manchu" in my youth when I was struck by the phrase from Nayland Smith " I belive that 25% of the coloured races are in league with Fu Manchu." at which point I began to doubt the author's sanity (although the Chinese probably are 25 % of the world's population.)--Streona (talk) 13:32, 14 May 2009 (UTC)It should be recalled that the terrorist organization that Dr. Fu Manchu belonged to - the Si-Fan, was not a Chinese organization. Based in Tibet, the Si-Fan's ruling council and body included Asians, Arabs, Jews, Africans, Egyptians, Europeans, British, Americans, etc. Their primary purpose was to stem Western influence in the East and they were strongly anti-imperialist. In that context, Rohmer's offending quote seems quite reasonable when viewed through the eyes of a British colonialist in the late 1930s.

The "racism" is probably hugely blown out of proportion by skim-reading PC maniacs (and these days probably people that haven't even read the books, they just formulate thier opinions from biased articles they have read about them). For instance you hear Bulldog Drummond mentioned as almost a byword for racist adventure stories, and yet in the thumping great 800 page Bulldog Drummond book recently released (containing the first four stories, which encompass the fight against one villain) there's maybe five racist sentences... in 800 pages! Yet the way some people talk about these books you'd think they were some sort of Nazi propaganda. An oft-quoted line from the Fu Manchu books is the hero claiming to be "acting in the interests of the white race", well if the devil doctor wants to exterminate the white race i suppose somebody who opposes him would be. In the same way the people that fought Hitler were "acting in the interests of the jewish race". Incendentally the racial angle seems to have even been dropped from the later stories, and one of the last ones had a half Chinese hero. It is incedentally never explicitly mentioned that Fu Manchu IS Chinese, and his apperance is supposed to have been based on a mummified Egyptian king as much as a Chinese criminal the author saw in Limehouse whilst doing some reporting for a news magazine. If you want my opinion, buy some books and get immersed in an era when adventure stories were honest, straightforward and had no apologies to make!81.129.121.122 (talk) 23:15, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Music
There is also a great 70s band named Fu Manchu. They're still making records today.

Bruno Lang
I've split off a stub article for The Shadow of Fu Manchu radio program and find to my surprise that my research cannot demonstrate the accuracy of a statement in this article, that "Bruno Lang" played Fu Manchu on radio in 1939-40. My source gives Hanley Stafford. IMDB has no entry for a Bruno Lang and, although this suggestion returns numerous times in a Google search, it seems as though all the citations are based on Wikipedia. Can anyone offer any citations for information about Bruno Lang? My source also gives Bruno WICK for the actor in Flash Gordon. Accounting4Taste: talk 04:48, 18 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I've removed material that my reference cannot back up -- the 1944 radio programme is not mentioned anywhere either, including the OTRR Library, and I very much doubt it exists -- and provided a citation. If someone can demonstrate that these assertions are true, with a reliable source or two to back them up, by all means return them.  Accounting4Taste: talk 16:01, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

'Edinburgh University is criminally ignoring its link to Dr Fu Manchu'
--Mais oui! (talk) 11:12, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
 * The Times, 4 April 2010


 * Wayback Machine --Jesdisciple (talk) 14:16, 15 July 2019 (UTC)

Egypt
This is all I know about this subject, but (back in the 1960s?) (in The Magazine of Fantasy and Science Fiction?) I read an essay that said that Dr. Fu Manchu had hinted about an origin in ancient Egypt, a hint that Robert E. Howard took and went one better in Skull-Face, in which the Devil Doctor is shown to be a surviving Atlantean. J S Ayer (talk) 13:03, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

Collier's Magazine "Mask of Fu Manchu"
" a Harvard University student group petitioned MGM producer William Randolph Hearst (who had also serialised the novel in his Cosmopolitan magazine) to cease making further films based on the property."

This statement is inaccurate- The Mask of Fu Manchu was serialised in Collier's magazine, not Cosmopolitan. See here:. 176.61.97.121 (talk) 17:19, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

"Authorized"
Authorized by whom? Macdonald-ross (talk) 15:08, 19 June 2015 (UTC)

rohmers page says the estate. no citation still though. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.186.86.53 (talk) 11:50, 23 November 2015 (UTC)


 * The Society of Authors and The Authors Guild jointly administer The Sax Rohmer Literary Estate. This is noted in the continuation novels starting with Van Ash. 70.191.119.68 (talk) 23:58, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

list of actors ages
list seems out of place and feels like OR. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.186.86.53 (talk) 11:45, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

Appearance In "The League Of Extraordinary Gentlemen"
Fu Manchu appears as "The Devil Doctor", never mentioned as "Fu Manchu" to avoid copywriter issues , in the first series of "The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen" by Allan Moore & Dave Gibbons. 75.104.174.49 (talk) 18:32, 17 December 2016 (UTC)

Rewrite
This article is poorly developed and sourced, and needs to be rewritten entirely. The article itself gives more information on the characters of the series rather than Fu Manchu himself. Since this is an article on Fu Manchu's character this is unnecessary and needs to be removed from the article. All information should be about the appearances, development of the character which should be given proper citations for its information. Appearances section should be relatively brief on each of the character's appearances and should be given proper citations for the information that is shown. The development section should be split into the following sub-sections: Concept and creation; and one on actors portraying the character. This article has a lot of work that is needed for it to meet Wikipiedia's guidelines and standards. If enough attention is given to it this article, it can meet GA and possibly FA status.--Paleface Jack (talk) 17:14, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

=something you might wish to consider, is that the name Fu Manchu refers not just to a character, but almost a franchise, so the lengthy inclusion of other characters makes sense, just like you will read about Jaws on the James Bond page.

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Dates needed
The lede & early paragraphs give no dates for the first three appearances of Fu Manchu. This is important both to give context and because there is a large gap before the next book (whose date is given), 1917-1931 iirc. --D Anthony Patriarche (talk) 16:07, 1 June 2019 (UTC)

While we're on the subject of dates, the sidebar says "last appearance: 1959" but the movies and actors listed extend well past that date. There's probably a reason, but on its face it doesn't make sense without additional context. 2603:8001:D300:A631:0:0:0:10D0 (talk) 04:20, 12 August 2022 (UTC)

Christopher Lee Dr. Fu Manchu films' availability on home video
It should be mentioned that all five of the Christopher Lee Dr. Fu Manchu films are available on home video, Face and Vengeance on DVD-R by Warner Archive, Brides on both DVD by Warner Home Video (this release was exclusively from Best Buy) and DVD-R from Warner Archive (both times as a double feature with the 1966 horror film Chamber of Horrors) and Blood and Castle on both DVD (two separate releases) and Blu-ray (a two films-in-one disc release) by Blue Underground. Blood and Castle were also both released in their original unedited versions from Europe for the first time in the U.S.

These facts should be mentioned in each film's respective Wikipedia article as well; they've been missing for way too long.Malcolmlucascollins (talk) 01:21, 23 March 2020 (UTC)

Changing the article's title
I think that the article's title should be changed from Fu Manchu to Dr. Fu Manchu. After all, credit where credit is due.Malcolmlucascollins (talk) 01:26, 23 March 2020 (UTC)

Tony Leung?
The character he plays (in Shang-chi) is only partly inspired by Fu Manchu and is really a separate entity ultimately… shouldn’t his name be removed from this article? BlackAdvisor (talk) 00:22, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
 * You are absolutely right, he should not be on there. It looks like another editor has already removed the information. InfiniteNexus (talk) 04:00, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Wenwu is more reminiscent of the Marvel version, now known as Zheng Zu, not the character created by Rohmer.Hyju (talk) 21:14, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
 * OK good BlackAdvisor (talk) 22:05, 28 November 2021 (UTC)