Talk:Fuchien Province, Republic of China

Existence of this page
It is rather misleading to be disambiguating entities according to different romanization systems when the Chinese name is the same. The FPG has started to use Hanyu Pinyin, and romanizes it as "Fujian" on its website. In addition, before the prevalance of pinyin, Fukien and Fu-chien were applied to the province as a whole, not just the ROC portion.

Since this was implemented without prior discussion, I will revert the split. I don't oppose a split as long as the scope of each article is clearly defined, the article titles are not ambiguous, and the gazillion links leading to Fujian are fixed.--Jiang 03:39, 26 June 2006 (UTC)


 * I've moved the page to something not based on different romanization systems. -- ran (talk) 20:29, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

That's weird, why is the government website FKPG.gov.tw (Fu Kien Provincial Government)... Seems they updated the romanization to Fu Jian but didn't update the website address. Also, shouldn't the correct spelling be "FuJian Province"? That's the way the government spells it. Although I prefer Hanyu pinyin, maybe it's biased to use a system that is not used by the ROC government. — Nrtm81 05:38, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Never mind, I'm just being stupid. Making it more complicated than need be. — Nrtm81 04:16, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Name of Province
We are having a problem with deciding whether to name it as Fujian or FuJian. The name/title should be FuJian, as given by the Provincial Government website. Hanyu Pinyin capitalisation norms by the ROC is different than the PRC. The ROC capitalises all letters of each word, therefore this page should be moved to FuJian Province, Republic of China or even possibly FuJian Province. Liu Tao (talk) 00:36, 9 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Could be the webmaster made a mistake. I can't find any evidence to suggest the whole website is written in this form, FuJian. In fact the article's primary page uses Fuchien. It probably needs updating. At the bottom of every page in english, it uses FUJIAN all in caps.


 * Further more if you look at subpages of the website, It uses Fujian. I have never heard of Taiwan unilaterally forming its own policies or standards for Hanyu Pinyin. If they are using Hanyu Pinyin as they say they would, then they would follow non capitalization for the second part of the word. --Visik (talk) 02:06, 17 January 2011 (UTC)


 * It's not webmaster mistake, it's deliberate. On the page:
 * 11th: Chen Jing Jun (November 28, 2007 – May 20, 2008; Secretary-General of the Executive Yuan and Governor of FuJian)
 * The website's own title bar uses "FuJian" as well
 * The ROC standard for Hanyu Pinyin is to capital all first letters of a word/character. The ROC did not adopt the PRC standard, they adopted the spelling system but used their own capitalisation system.  For us, "Fujian" is not one but two words, "Fu" and "Jian".  I guess that would explain your confusion there.  There is no single standard for Pinyin just as there is no single standard for Mandarin.  Liu Tao (talk) 03:34, 17 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Hi Liu Tao, Not a confusion on my part, the website is confused or your confused its the actual name. I saw the url you provide, it is the actual title image. Thats the only page where its referenced FuJian. I don't see it used in any other page at all on the website. http://www.fkpg.gov.tw. Don't you find it a bit flimsy to use it for justification to change the article's name to FuJian? Also, just a note, searching .gov.tw on google reveal most websites have Fujian rather than FuJian.
 * I disagree with the assertion there is no standard for Pinyin or Mandarin. There are if you look Pinyin for Pinyin. There is a section on the ROC"s adoption of the mainland's Pinyin but not without a fight. Mandarin is Standard Mandarin or pending discussion Standard Chinese.
 * Anyway, its not worth the effort to have a long discussion about this peculiar naming. Just looks very awkward coming across this article. Others may disagree with you. --Visik (talk) 06:35, 17 January 2011 (UTC)


 * The Wikipedia article also said in the said section 'though with a slightly different capitalization convention than mainland China.'
 * And I've already showed you the quote directly from the site :
 * 11th: Chen Jing Jun (November 28, 2007 – May 20, 2008; Secretary-General of the Executive Yuan and Governor of FuJian)
 * Liu Tao (talk) 07:19, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

This page has a hard time deciding whether to use "FuJian" or "Fuchien" while the url suggests "Fukien". We cannot take the work of the webmaster as the official policy of the government, assuming an official policy exists in the first place. Wouldn't the real authority be the ROC Ministry of the Interior? what does it say? --Jiang (talk) 21:45, 17 January 2011 (UTC)


 * True, ultimate authority lies with the Central Government, but they relegated the power of determining their romanised name to the respective local governments. Authority and choice lies with the Fukien Provincial Government, theoretically speaking if my sources are right.  And as I've said, ROC standard for capitalisation is the first letter of every "zi" (字), not "ci" (詞).  Even if webmasters did make a mistake, the chances of someone using the newest 'FuJian' twice is a bit of pulling the coincidental side.  The domain name "Fukien" is probably because they didn't update it (somewhat on the 'complicated' side of changing domain names, akin to changing addresses).  The 'Fuchien' used throughout the article would be because of previous widespread use, the webmasters probably just copied down with each use.  Tell you the truth, I'm really not for using the Hanyupinyin romanisation, as I can find no affirmative source for the change as you've said.  AccorLiu Tao (talk) 22:53, 17 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Hmm, from analysing the usage of "FuJian" vs "Fujian", it seems to me that "FuJian" is used when used titular, but "Fujian" is used when in the context of a paragraph. I've also took a look at the page's html code, and it seems to me that "FuJian" was used purposefully.  Take a look what I found:
 * 
 * 福建省政府 (FuJian Provincial Government)
 * 
 * 
 * 
 * 
 * 
 * 
 * Whoever that made this page definitely used 'FuJian' on purpose. Maybe we should contact the FK Government?  We won't source it, but at least it'd give us something confirm ourselves and find something else to source it or something.  Liu Tao (talk) 23:07, 17 January 2011 (UTC)
 * do it. I find the disregard for pinyin rules to be strange. --HXL's Roundtable, and Record 00:27, 18 January 2011 (UTC)
 * You find it strange because you're used to and accustomed to the PRC standard. The RoC does their capitalisations differently.  When you think about why and how they do it, it won't seem strange anymore.  Liu Tao (talk) 01:00, 18 January 2011 (UTC)
 * I think the spelling of FuJian is definetely not a ROC standard, for Taiwan Province is not spelled as TaiWan. --阿pp (talk) 14:16, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
 * FuJian must be an error, and the capital "J" violates the Regulations Governing the Standard Translation of Place Names Article 5.
 * 第 5 條 標準地名之譯寫，採第一個字母大寫，其餘字母小寫，除下列情形外，各單字間應以連續不間斷之方式書寫：
 * 一、非首字之中文譯寫後第一個字母為 a、o、e 時，與前單字間以隔音符號「’」連接.
 * 二、採音譯與意譯不同方式譯寫時，單字間以空格相隔.
 * based on this regulation, the name should be Fujian. For wikipedia, before anyone got the decision of the government, the page names should fit this regulation. Like the page name of 新北市 remains Xinbei before adoption of the special translation New Taipei by Ministry of the interior. Energiya (talk) 17:22, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

Flag
The flag posted is incorrect, the province has no flag. The "flag" in this article was submitted by redditor treskro3 in December of 2012. While the file was uploaded 2014 July.Ornithoptera (talk) 06:33, 15 August 2014 (UTC)
 * I suspected it to be something like that. -- benlisquare T•C•E 06:38, 15 August 2014 (UTC)

External links modified
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External links modified
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Requested move 12 June 2022

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: moved. Uncontroversial request. (non-admin closure) — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (投稿) 16:45, 19 June 2022 (UTC)

Fujian Province, Republic of China → Fuchien Province, Republic of China – Taiwan use WG romanisation, see Fuchien Kinmen District Court website and http://terms.naer.edu.tw/detail/1489789/ Alexwikix (talk) 11:14, 12 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Support per nom -- 64.229.88.43 (talk) 04:23, 18 June 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
 * Comment we should stop converting everything from WG to pinyin just because, when they are anachronistic for many other topics (such as people who are only significant people during careers before the existence of pinyin, but who are featured in English under WG names from contemporary sources, when they actually made impact upon the world; especially many Natinoalists KMT) -- 64.229.88.43 (talk)

Requested move 6 August 2022

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) – robertsky (talk) 04:17, 21 August 2022 (UTC)

Fuchien Province, Republic of China → Fujian Province, Republic of China - Why was this article moved based on a consensus of two? Taiwan adopted Hanyu Pinyin as the official standard on 1 January 2009, and you can see "Fujian" in use on the Kinmen County website here. Same for the Taipei Times and the Executive Yuan before it was reorganised. Really don't see how this was justified at all. Theknightwho (talk) 16:19, 6 August 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. – robertsky (talk) 04:28, 14 August 2022 (UTC)

Although Taiwan adopted Hanyu Pinyin as the official standard on 1 January 2009, Taiwan maintains WG romanisation at or above the county and city level (for example: Taipei, Taichung, Kaohsiung, so is Fuchien). See Fuchien Kinmen District Court website, Kinmen Branch, Fuchien High Prosecutors Office website, Fuchien Lienchiang District Court website and National Academy for Educational Research bilingual dictionary (福建省政府 - Fuchien Provincial Government). Alexwikix (talk) 17:08, 8 August 2022 (UTC)

When I accessed the Wikipedia page in question a few minutes ago, I was actually surprised to see that "Fujian" turned into "Fuchien", a spelling I've never seen before! Hence, I went on the Google Ngram Viewer to compare the two spellings, and I found that although the spelling "Fuchien" was |more common in the early 20th century, the spelling "Fujian" |became the preferred spelling from 1945 to 1954. Although the spelling "Fuchien" briefly came back into fashion from 1955 to 1959, "Fujian" has become the preferred spelling, and since the 1970s, |"Fujian" became more common than "Fuchien"... by a large margin!

Therefore, in accordance with WP:COMMONNAME, I would suggest that "Fuchien Province, Republic of China" be moved back to "Fujian Province, Republic of China". SleepTrain456 (talk) 23:11, 8 August 2022 (UTC)

You said that “Although the spelling "Fuchien" briefly came back into fashion from 1955 to 1959, "Fujian" has become the preferred spelling, and since the 1970s, "Fujian" became more common than "Fuchien"... by a large margin!”. That's because the general mention of "Fujian" refers to Fujian Province of PRC, which uses hanyu pinyin, but this page is Fuchien Province of the ROC, and it does use Fuchien. I also cited many translations of the official website of the ROC above (Fuchien Kinmen District Court, Kinmen Branch, Fuchien High Prosecutors Office, Fuchien Lienchiang District Court), which “Fuchien” are shown in the titles of the websites, not only in the text. In addition, the following photo is for reference.



Alexwikix (talk) 12:16, 9 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Fuchien Provincial Government, Fuchien Field Office. No any "Fujian" yet. —— Eric Liu（Talk） 15:50, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
 * Oppose nominator is conflating "Fujian, PRC" with "Fuchien, ROC" in the presented usage stats. The ROC region of control is tiny compared to the PRC region of control. So the nominator doesn't really present any usage data. Show that the ROC region of control has shifted in uses, and not just from the official name when ROC switched from Tongyu to Hanyu. WG is widely used in ROC still. -- 64.229.88.43 (talk) 06:12, 18 August 2022 (UTC)

"Fu-chien County, Taiwan" listed at Redirects for discussion
The redirect [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Fu-chien_County,_Taiwan&redirect=no Fu-chien County, Taiwan] has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at  until a consensus is reached. Jay 💬 06:23, 15 November 2023 (UTC)