Talk:Fudge

Mackinac Island fudge advertisement?
Why is this entire article about Mackinac Island fudge? The image captions are "Gourmet Turtle Fudge from the Mackinac Fudge Shop" "Making Mackinac Island Fudge" and half of the "American fudge" section is devoted to Mackinac island. I don't think it is appropriate for "Mackinac Fudge Shop" to advertise on this page, so someone should edit this. Ok I edited it :)

Headline text below the index?
Is the headline text supposed to be below the index, or what? It looks quite odd, in my opinion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.61.168.192 (talk) 14:05, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Requested moves
(moved from WP:RM -- ALoan (Talk) 18:39, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC))


 * Fudge (candy) &rarr; Fudge -- Fudge was previously a disambiguation page, but the other two meanings were trivial in comparison. Historie Pete 13:56, 23 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Done - deleted fudge and moved Fudge (candy). Pace the policy argument below, sweet/candy is clearly the most common meaning. -- ALoan (Talk) 15:49, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Word origin
This sounds a lot like a folk etymology to me: The exact origin is disputed, but most stories claim that the first batch of fudge resulted from a bungled batch of caramels made on February 14,1886&mdash;hence the name "fudge." jengod 19:13, Oct 27, 2004 (UTC)
 * It does, doesn't it? The OED has "origin obscure", and suggests "The noun] appears to have been developed partly from the interjection, and partly from FUDGE verb."  -- Dominus 20:23, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Maybe so, but even as but a myth, I still think it belongs in the article.


 * "S.C"-Sorry this has nothing to do with fudge exep that it can be made with nuts or vinilla flavoring, did you know that, well try it sometime.-Congrats S you have made it this far ok your next clue is...'Go to Selena's page and read my post.'

"usually flavoured with chocolate"
I have to say, I very VERY rarely see chocolate fudge. Maybe it's an England/America difference, but almost all fudge here is vanilla, and then the second most common is probably banana (then strawberry, THEN probably chocolate). I'm going to edit that bit out completely, if it really is that common in America, someone can feel free to stick in a new sentance. --Oppolo 00:20, 24 September 2005 (UTC)


 * Fudge in America is usually chocolate. DCR


 * I informally polled some Britons I know to ask if they thought chcocolate fudge was rare, and if almost all fudge in Englad was vanilla; they were unanimous in their disagreement. This isn't dispositive, but it does indicate that the situation is not as clear as you seem to think.


 * I have emailed the owners of to ask for more specific information about what flavors of fudge are popular in Kent.  I will report back here if they reply. -- Dominus 14:07, 14 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Last night at Disneyland, at the confectionary at Downtown Disney, I purchased Pumpkin, Bubblegum (flavored, with small marshmallows for texture), chocolate mint, peanut butter chocolate, chocolate, and vanilla fudge MikeSims 22:10, 5 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Chocolate? Pumpkin? Vanilla? Wow! The fudge I remember is a sort of salty flavour. Maybe just an Irish thing then. Temp 19:26, 18 April 2007

This page is a redirect for Mackinac Island Fudge. There is a wide viriaty there from vanilla, chocolate, peanutbutter, chocolate peanutbutter, maple, cranberry, mint, rockyroad ect.. Some include diffrent nutts, candy and sugar free fudge. Because of the amount of diffrent venders in such a small location there is a wide variaty of flavors and styles, some even sell oven baked fudge. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.26.236.94 (talk) 11:15, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Plain Fudge in the UK is typically expected to be vanilla flavoured - although contrary to the claim above, chocolate is probably the next most common; typically you will see: vanilla; chocolate; coffee; clotted cream (in westcountry - claimed to be origin); variations on walnuts; mint; orange ; rum & raisin; cherry; strawberry ; other fruits/nuts/alcohols / flavours etc —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.133.248.134 (talk) 20:54, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

"Indeed, Chocolate."
I do believe the difference is England/US. Chocolate fudge is the norm here, so much so that I've actually never seen any other flavor. I'll not enter it, however, as I have no idea what flavors other regions use.


 * In Australia Fudge is generally Chocolate, Coffee or Caramel flavoured, but offhand I'd say we had around five to ten common flavours, as well as combinations (eg chocolate / caramel swirls). I don't think you can talk about any particular flavour of fudge being dominant, but a list of common / popular flavours would surely be alright.


 * I think this sounds like a great section of the article to me. "Default Fudge Flavors around the World."  Chocolate is definitely the default fudge flavor at least in Michigan (including Mackinac Island), USA.  However, a great many flavors are possible here.  It's just that "Fudge" = "Chocolate Fudge" and "XXX Fudge" = "XXX Fudge" where XXX is the flavor with XXX not equal to chocolate.Dachande 15:55, 10 August 2007 (UTC)


 * In UK that's what I know under the name "Fudge", or this (and this sounds too yummy to be true) otherwise is called "Chocolate Fudge" and than is made with chocolate/cocoa. But I definitely support the proposition "Default Fudge Flavors around the World." :0) --Dia^ (talk) 17:28, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

"Slang"
Slang Within Australia, the US, and the UK a 'fudge packer' is an offensive slang term for a homosexual, referring to the act of anal sex.

is this really appropriate? not every page of an encyclopedia should make sure to list how the subject can be used as a sexual reference. im gonna remove it. Sahuagin 07:10, 2 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Yeah. Wikipedia is not a dictionary.  -- Dominus 10:06, 2 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Would you then consider it appropriate for wikitionary?


 * Gross!!! This article is about food!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.126.75.181 (talk) 17:07, 20 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Ya leave that sorta stuff for urban dictonary(78.16.55.110 (talk) 22:36, 23 January 2008 (UTC))
 * wouldnt it be best that the public...idk didnt know abou that term.... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.229.235.205 (talk) 19:36, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Devon & Cornwall?
The paragraph about Devon & Cornwall read like an advertisement. However I only commented it out instead of deleting it since I am not from the UK. Can any Brits comment on the notability of the company? ShortBus 09:12, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Devon & Cornwal are not a company. They are two counties.  Fudge from devon and cornwall is quite famous in the UK.  The company is however not particularily notable and it reads very much as an advertisement.  I have removed it.  Ksbrown 17:41, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Naturally i have no reference for this, otherwise i would have added it, but common understanding in the UK is that fudge is simply a type of sweetened condensed cream. In the UK, it is generally associated with the dairy-producing Westcountry (Devon & Cornwall) the origin seems very likely to be a historical development of (overcooked) clotted cream. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.133.248.134 (talk) 21:05, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

Smith College Fudge Recipe- 1914
The following is from a 1914 cookbook of the Emmanuel Church Lady's Aid Society, Norwich NY, contributed by Mrs. Burton E. Reynolds.

Smith College Fudge

Melt 1/4 cup butter, mix in separate dish: 1 cup white sugar, 1 cup brown sugar, 1/4 cup molasses, 1/2 cup sweet cream

Add this to the butter and boil 2 1/2 minutes, stirring rapidly, then add 2 squares of chocolate scraped fine. Boil all five minutes, stirring rapidly, then more slowly as it thickens. Add 1 1/2 teaspoons vanilla and 1 1/2 cups English walnuts, cut into small pieces. Turn into buttered tin to cool.

(My own notes to this: Use unsweetened baking chocolate, about 2 oz. Cook in a double boiler, like an old fashioned chafing dish.)Saxophobia 02:02, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

difference?
What is the difference between fudge and chocolate, such as hersheys????? 209.180.111.176 01:48, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Some difference in ingredients but the biggest difference is in the cooking- the characteristic of fudge is the texture. Proper fudge is not gooey (unless made as a sauce) but it does not break like chocolate. Saxophobia (talk) 17:02, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

This article needs protection
I don't know how to semi=protect a page. If another editor who watches this page know how to do it, please do. The article is vandalized almost dialy with scatalogical nonsenseLiPollis 19:37, 1 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Only an administrator can protect or semi-protect an article. Read the protection policy for more details.&mdash;Elipongo (Talk|contribs) 17:01, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Ingredients...
Working in a fudge shop, I can tell you that most slab fudge contains cream as oppossed to butter. Also, the temperature varies fron 230-239 degreed farenheit. Bit of a technicality, I know.

The creation story is also correct. She got the temperature wrong but created this wonderful sweet!

stange changes
for some strange reason last time i check this article i think i saw alot more details.......how do i check if im right or wrong? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.229.235.205 (talk) 01:31, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

vandalism
this topic is being chenged unneedingly for the wrong reason constantly! this has to stop! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.229.235.205 (talk) 01:15, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

more details
this article should have things like differen types of fudge, different countries where fudge is made, and other stuff like that —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.229.235.205 (talk) 21:02, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Not a Candy?
In this article, it explicitly states that fudge is not a candy, but on the candy page, it lists fudge as a candy here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Candy#Manufacture76.254.22.112 (talk) 22:14, 29 March 2009 (UTC)


 * I removed the nonsense "not a candy" phrase added by 74.78.224.218 -Mtekk (talk) 03:33, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

Alright, I just wasn't sure :p AlanZhan (talk) 21:34, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Fudge is a confection.Bigturtle (talk) 00:53, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

In general use the terns Candy and Confection mean the same thing. Saxophobia (talk) 17:04, 14 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Not only in general usage, but also in technical usage, fudge is a candy. In cooking jargon, candy is a confection made by boiling sugar.   Fudge is an example. —Dominus (talk) 20:23, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

Picture
Shouldn't this be changed to something more resembling traditional fudge? Seems unlikely someone is going to go to the fudge page and not expect a picture of fudge. Sheepdean (talk) 23:01, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

Proportions of sugar, butter, and milk?
I want to make a totally basic fudge using sugar, butter, and milk, with no flavoring. But I can't seem to find the proper proportions anywhere. Anybody here have a halfway decent, ballpark idea of what the basic proportions of these ingredients is? Mbarbier (talk) 18:30, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

"hot fudge" Redirect
Typing "hot fudge" into the search bar takes you to this page but typing "Hot Fudge" (in proper-case) takes you to Hot Fudge. This makes is quite hard to actually reach Hot Fudge since the only difference in the case used. Is the redirect really suitable? I'm pretty new to this so I don't know how to go about fixing this. 2401cs (talk) 17:58, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

Dubious
Clotted cream is "a probable precursor" of fudge? Based on what? As far as I can see, the only thing they have in common is that they both involve heating dairy products. You might as well say the same thing about fondue... --2.121.181.58 (talk) 23:21, 29 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Agreed and cut. --McGeddon (talk) 14:34, 18 August 2016 (UTC)

Location Bias
This article is awfully biased towards America. It should be made more international. 62.254.12.55 (talk) 00:12, 27 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Completely agree. The origins section reads like a joke. I'm going to add a globalize template. --Ef80 (talk) 18:06, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

Battle of the fudges - DeBaufre Bakeries vs. Murdick’s Candy Kitchen
Recently an editor came by and removed or demoted mentions of Murdick's Candy Kitchen as the birthplace of fudge, replacing it with DeBaufre Bakeries, makers of a chocolate-frosted Berger Cookie.

Both claims are equally unsourced and equally dubious. The Murdick's claim is backed up by a link to Murdick's web site. The Berger Cookie page mentions that DeBaufre was founded in 1835 but does not say when the cookie was invented. It does mention that the frosting is derived from “a German recipe”, which means that even if the frosting is fudge (and it's not clear that it is) DeBaufre is not the originator. None of the claims has any reliable sourcing.

I am deleting all mentions of both from this article, and restoring the picture of fruit fudge that was removed by the DeBaufre partisan.

—Mark Dominus (talk) 21:03, 22 September 2016 (UTC)

Chocolate fudge
On June 25, I added chocolate to the lede's list of common ingredients added to fudge, with the edit summary ‘This isn't an exhaustive list, but it seems odd not to include chocolate, which is practically obligatory in the United States.’. A couple of hours later, this was reverted by Deli nk, with the edit summary ‘That bstuff is called "chocolate fudge" this article is about fudge and its derivatives.’. That doesn't make sense to me; chocolate fudge is a kind of fudge, not a separate thing. Furthermore, chocolate fudge is mentioned in the rest of the article (maybe too much, since the History section covers it exclusively). I've checked that the English Wikipedia doesn't have any other page about chocolate fudge and restored my edit. (I also created a redirect to here from Chocolate fudge, which was empty and had no history, besides some vandalism/BJAODN in 2009.) ―Toby Bartels (talk) 04:32, 23 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Wasn't Deli nk, it was me. -Roxy the dog. bark 09:50, 23 July 2017 (UTC)
 * There are essentially two lists of ingredients in the article. The first is a basic list of the minimal ingredients (sugar, butter and milk) required to make something called fudge.  The second is a list of other flavors added to make different kinds of fudge.  Chocolate, in my opinion, belongs in the second list.  I may have reverted changes in the past the involved adding chocolate to the first list.  Since chocolate is by far the most common variant (in my mostly US-based experience), maybe there is a better way of handling it.  Deli nk (talk) 10:45, 23 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Sorry, Deli nk, it was indeed Roxy the dog (who reverted to a previous version by Deli nk). If there are no objections to how it is now, it seems fine to me. —Toby Bartels (talk) 02:54, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

Some facts and corrections for the history section
Since the issue of chocolate seems, from this talk page, to be contentious, it seemed worth offering some background for some edits I made to the history section.

As far as I can tell (e.g. this useful article), the earliest publication of a fudge recipe is actually from 1894, and it does not include chocolate. I think the confusion comes from the letter mentioned, which talks about making some in 1888 and gives a recipe. The letter itself was written in 1921; 33 years later and 26 years after the recipe in the newspaper.

I found some other interesting sources in the Vassar College archives, including one which included chocolate in the recipe rather than vanilla. Given the amount of interest shown on this page regarding which is the "default fudge", it seems worth highlighting the lack of consensus even at the very beginning. --Hsimah (talk) 09:18, 12 January 2018 (UTC)

NPOV - article presents fudge as though it can only be made through the boiling method
While in fact there are loads of no-cook recipes available."Farm journal's choice chocolate recipes - Page 185 https://books.google.co.uk/books?isbn=0385147775 Elise W. Manning, ‎Patricia A. Ward - 1978 - ‎Snippet view The recipes in this chapter reflect how most of today's farm homemakers feel about fudge making. They like the easy new varieties, such as the no-cook fudge or the fudge that cooks for 10 minutes and is beaten for just a few minutes or not at ..." Doug Weller talk 16:53, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
 * This talk page isn't for trolling Doug Weller. Read WP:NOTFORUM. -Roxy, the dog . wooF 19:09, 29 June 2019 (UTC) see below Roxy, the dog . wooF 19:49, 29 June 2019 (UTC)


 * Is that a joke? You really think I'm trolling or that I don't know about NOTFORUM? I'm serious. Doug Weller  talk 19:39, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
 * I'm so sorry. This has been an awful misubderstanding, on my part. I shall strike all of it in a moment. -Roxy, the dog . wooF 19:48, 29 June 2019 (UTC)


 * Thanks, all's well that ends well. So long as there's chocolate. Doug Weller  talk 20:32, 29 June 2019 (UTC)

Word and thing - invented outside the US, possibly Scotland?
The OED says only that the word 'fudge' was first used in the US to describe the confection, but didn't the confection predate the word? For example, according to The Scots Kitchen p.304 by F. Marian McNeill, there is a type of fudge (called tablet) noted in The Household Book of Lady Grisell Baillie in the early 18th century. The traditional recipe uses just sugar and cream. Such a simple recipe (sugar, butter, milk) must have lead to many variations. Burraron (talk) 08:51, 17 September 2020 (UTC)


 * McNeill makes no such conflation between fudge and tablet which, although sharing similar ingredients, the relative proprtions are substantailly different and the two items are quite distinct, particularly in texture (tablet grainy, much harder, brittle, non-elastic). My edition is 259 pages long, so no page 304, has the "Scots Tablets" entry on p228 and there is no mention of fudge there (nor indeed of Baillie, FWIW) and, as far as I can tell, no mention of fudge at all in the book. Your assertion is WP:OR. Mutt Lunker (talk) 09:46, 17 September 2020 (UTC)

Hot fudge redirect
Currently, the page “hot fudge” redirects to this page. This should not be the case: fudge is a solid confection, while hot fudge is a liquid sauce. This redirect is akin to redirecting “potted shrimp” to “shrimp”, when it is a different thing entirely. LeetToTheBeatMakeItRoar (talk) 12:23, 29 August 2022 (UTC)