Talk:Fujian White Crane

Style?
Is the White Crane style soft or hard? Or does it vary between the individual sub-styles?

80.0.19.5 20:52, 17 September 2006 (UTC)


 * It's all relative.


 * Fujian White Crane can be safely said to be softer than Karate and harder than T'ai Chi.


 * Its use of isometric exercises probably puts in the the ballpark of Hung Gar in terms of hard & soft.
 * Maybe a little bit softer.


 * JFD 02:54, 18 September 2006 (UTC)


 * It's a soft style. Less closed hand strikes, more open hand strikes.

It is broad enough to have hard and soft variants. I do soft style which matches tai chi. Indeed white crane moves are clearly common in tai chi. I suggest the hardening comes with lack of understanding, and the more skilful masters are softer. This goes for all martial arts though. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.162.175.235 (talk) 04:39, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

Previous version of article
Fujian White Crane is a martial art style commonly placed in the 'category' Kung Fu. Today, there is a Fujian White Crane Kung Fu school thriving in Europe (namely the United Kingdom and Sweden) and growing under the instruction of a number of Instructors and Assistant Instructors. The head of this school is Mr Ngo Kah Swee, affectionately known as 'Dennis' to his students. The style that is taught is a mixture of both 'Tiger' and 'Crane' kung-fu styles, and was formerly known as Tiger-Crane Combination. The club has strong links with China, as the Chief Instructor Mr Ngo Kaw Swee has been officially commissioned by the Fujian Yongchun YiYun Wushu Society (China) to help with research into the history of the White Crane style.

Fujian White Crane Kung Fu is accepted as original and from the same lineage by Yongchun White Crane Wushu (China). It may be noticed that Yongchun is the area from which the name for the style 'Wing Chun' has been derived, although the two styles should not be confused or linked to one another directly.

Sources and Further Information: , JFD 15:33, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

Name Accuracy and Chinese Character Distinctions
Thank You. Now, with that being said, This page should definitely change the written Chinese Characters in the margin on the right side, to 永春白鶴拳 (Wing Chun Baak Hok Kyun- wing chun white crane). The current one says 詠春拳 (Wing Chun Kyun- Wing Chun Fist) which are the 2 totally different styles that were just mentioned. Therefore, it needs a more proper translation into Chinese. This, to me, was a pretty big mistake, and I think it really needs to be changed. ZhaoHistorian1 (talk) 20:50, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

Branches
From what I have learnt personally in the White Crane martial arts, Kung Fu and Suang Yang (T'ai Chi), there are five distinct branches of Crane, not four, which I know as: Sleeping Crane, Calling Crane (Crying Crane), Feeding Crane (Eating Crane), Jumping Crane (Flying Crane) and, the missing one, Shaking Crane. I think Jumping Crane is another name for Flying Crane, not Sleeping Crane (which specialises in drunken-like movements). WhiteCrane 22:19, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

My source for conflating Jumping Crane and Sleeping Crane is Yang Jwing-Ming's "Essence of Shaolin White Crane". JFD 00:59, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Advertising?
I am a little concerned about the use of www.fwckungfu.com as an external link, since it is the website of a specific club, Fujian White Crane Kung Fu, and could be seen as advertising. Their sister site however, www.kungfu-taichi.com, is a research group named Wushu Scholar, headed by Master Ngo Kah Swee (Dennis), the chief instructor of FWC Kung Fu; I am okay with this one. WhiteCrane 22:30, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Both of the links to which you refer were in the original version of the article (see above), which is why I left them in. I've no objection to removing the FWC Kung fu site. JFD 02:00, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

There are 4 original branches of white crane. As time went on other branches were developped as a result of style mixing etc...Shaking crane and ancestral crane are the same style. I have never heard of Jumping Crane and is certainly not flying crane. As for Shifu Yang's books on white crane they are a well done contribution to the martial arts. They are incorrect however in relation to the flying crane history in that they forms that definitaly do not exist in flying crane. Typical flying crane forms would rather be: San Shi liu Tian kong, Bai he sz men chong tian, Bai he luo san etc... Lorne Bernard representative of grand-master Lee Joo-Chian (heir of the flying crane system). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.56.215.149 (talk) 17:13, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Time of founding
This page says that it was founded at earliest c. 1700, but on the page of Zhang Sanfeng, the founder of wudangquan, was supposedly a practitioner of the White Crane Style and he was reputed to have been born no later than 1273. Which one is it? They both can't be true. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.140.37.27 (talk) 22:18, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

the stories of sanfeng are myths. but lookup ng mui - shaolin elder who escaped the destruction of the shaolin temple by the new qing government around 1640s because shaolin was the final stronghold of the ming resistance. ng mui was a master of white crane according to some, and founder of white crane according to others. quite sure white crane was a core style of shaolin prior to the temple's destruction, and considered the most sophisticated modern animal style taught there.

Women are better at pecking??
Can anyone provide a reference for this rather bizarre-looking statement in the article?
 * especially in women's self defense, because they don't depend on strength and women are better able to imitate the pecking motion so common in the crane style of fighting

If not, I think the last part should be removed. Destynova (talk) 01:01, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Though this does seem a bizarre statement and should perhaps be formally referenced, my (female) White Crane instructor has, in the past, emphasised how female students tend to find certain arm/upper body movements easier to learn and perfect because their male counterparts have 'naturally' (this may be controversial) more developed muscle in the pectoral and shoulder areas, which reduces flexibility and maneuverability. Not sure how this relates to 'pecking' unless pecking is done with arms/hands rather than heads/'beaks'! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 149.5.64.141 (talk) 15:44, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

Agreed, this is a naive statement. The inner training of the crane emphasizes force amplification through structural (skeletal, postural) management: Qīniáng observed that the crane beat its wings back against the air to amplify the strike force of beak and talons, thus the light-boned bird was able to produce force greater than its own weight. Although this exact method doesn't work very well for humans, the crane styles use small returning movement to balance an outward force, preserving structural stasis at the base by reducing net torque, and permitting an increase of lever force from the root, as well as significantly reducing root management. These techniques are effective for the human male skeleton, but are especially valuable for the wider-hipped skeletal structure of human females. The observation of 149.5.64.141's instructor applies as well; over-development of pectoral and shoulder muscles can inhibit application of elbow and forearm interceptions and traps. Qiniáng also observed the crane accepting the force of her blows with its wings and redirecting that force to its striking talons, producing simultaneous parry and attack, as well as directing the opponents force against them, through skeletal structure; again, these methods produce advantages most accessible and useful to the smaller, lighter combatant, although they are generally effective for all body types. As for "the pecking motion", the use of the wrist and fingers to trap and lever against the forearm is the more common and significant use of this hand position. DK (talk) 07:01, 12 April 2015 (UTC)

Taiwan
The lineage in the Taiwan section is clearly missing several names; for one thing, Lin De Shun taught in Taiwan between 1919 and 1932, so he could not be sixth-generation -- the same generation as Wing Chun, who lived in the 18th century. Also, Liu Chang-I describes himself as 12th generation, and his father and grandfather as 11th and 10th, respectively, which means that Lin De Shun was 9th. 71.56.236.22 (talk) 01:14, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

no 180.217.78.49 (talk) 17:23, 23 February 2022 (UTC)

Chin Na needs to be mentioned in an edited/revised future Wikipedia Fujian White Crane article
Fujian White Crane is most recognized by it's 700 Chin Na application of techniques. Along with Ying Jow Pai (Northern Eagle Claw), Fu Jow Pai (Tiger Claw), and some Northern Praying Mantis (Tai Mantis). Eagle Claw and Tiger Claw are known well for it's forcefull gripping/grabbing of the muscles and ripping/tearing them. The branch of Northern Praying Mantis called Tai Mantis is well known for it's elbow chin na or elbow joint locks. Actually many Southern Chinese martial arts have many Chin Na techniques because of the tendency of the use of hand applications in striking, parrying, and stick/adhering. There is no mention of Chin Na techniques listed in the Fujian White Crane Wikipedia article. There should also be a mention of it's history predecessor from Northern Chinese temples called Black Crane. Most Northern Chinese martial arts have more upright stances for quick movement/mobility, it has many medium to long range striking techniques, and the increased use of kicks/jump kicks. Black Crane was the 1st ever martial Crane system in China. Black Crane deviates from this as it is a paradox version of other Northern Chinese martial arts because it's practicioners use low deep rooted stances and a predominent use of the hands not for striking but for very close range offensive techniques only using Chin Na. Black Crane is now a very rare if practiced, but mostly all of it's Chin Na techniques were infused into modern day Fujian White Crane. The White Crane uses stick and adhere like what is used in Wing Chun, but with an end result of the opponent being immobilized via Chin Na applications. The subject of Chin Na needs to be addressed in an updated and revised future Wikipedia article about Fujian White Crane style for it is imperative for a proper definition of the martial art. Dr. Yang,Jwing-Ming is a practicioner of Fujian White Crane, Long Fist, Pa Kua, and Yang Tai Chi Chuan. Dr. Yang has many books and videos mostly about Fujian White Crane with a some information about Northern Eagle Claw and Tiger Claw Chin Na. Most of the 700 Chin Na applications provided by him in his videos/books are from Fujian White Crane system.

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