Talk:Fujiwara no Kenshi (994–1027)

Requested move 4 November 2021

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: technical close. The participating editors have agreed on an alt move, which the proposer has implemented as an uncontroversial move, so this RM should be closed. (non-admin closure) Havelock Jones (talk) 23:04, 6 November 2021 (UTC)

Fujiwara no Kenshi (Sanjō) → Fujiwara no Kenshi (daughter of Michinaga) – I made this change three years ago, but was reverted by the article creator a month later. The rationales given (apart from a counter-policy "you can't change this without discussion) were (i) that "to call someone daughter is worse" (which is inconsistent with common practice in Japanese historiography for women whose names are unknown [ see Takasue's daughter ] and therefore almost certainly with women whose names are kinda known but need to be disambiguated [difficult to prove with examples since most of these names are already disambiguated when written in Japanese]) and (ii) that the current is standard for queens and empresses on English Wikipedia and would introduce an inconsistency (which I don't rightly understand -- the distinction is between empresses regnants and empresses consorts [sp?], not between male and female royalty, and the current style is equivalent to calling Prince Philip Prince Philip (Elizabeth); moreover, the same "consistency" rationale was used here while moving the article to a completely different title). Not only do we generally not write emperors' canonical names without "Emperor" per MOS:JAPAN, but a parenthetical disambiguator that is "[husband's name]" without "wife of" is confusing and inappropriate. Given that Michinaga was the de facto ruler of Japan and probably had much more agency in the marriage of Emperor Sanjō to his daughter Kenshi than either of them did, naming her in relation to him makes more sense. I would be happy with Fujiwara no Kenshi (wife of Emperor Sanjō) or Fujiwara no Kenshi (994-1027). Hijiri 88 ( 聖やや ) 00:54, 4 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Your last example, Fujiwara no Kenshi (994-1027), is the best choice, since it does not depict her in relation to another person, only as herself. I would support making a move to that alternative. Best greetings, --Aciram (talk) 01:00, 4 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Out of curiosity, do you remember why you didn't make that move last time? I only opened this RM because you said I needed to "discuss" proposed moves first (which is not supported by policy), but I get the impression that now that Fujiwara no Kenshi (994-1027) has your approval, discussion may not be necessary. Hijiri 88 ( 聖やや ) 01:09, 4 November 2021 (UTC)
 * I've gone ahead and implemented the move myself, since there is no reason to believe anyone will oppose the alternative that both of us have agreed upon. Hijiri 88 ( 聖やや ) 02:47, 4 November 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.