Talk:Fujiwara no Nobuyori

Confusion on Yoshitomo support in Heiji Rebellion
In the second paragraph of this article, it states that the Minamoto supported Go-Shirakawa against Emperor Nijo. Then in the third paragraph, it states that the Minamoto abducted Go-Shirakawa and killed his chief councilor Michinori. Okay, so which is it?

For comparison, the main article on Minamoto no Yoshitomo never states that Yoshitomo and Nobuyori supported of Go-Shirakawa, but just says they abucted him and killed Minchinori (implying they didn't support Go-Shirakawa). However, the article does state explicitly that Taira no Kiyomori fought in SUPPORT OF Go-Shirakawa (contrary to what it says in the second paragraph of this article on Nobuyori).

In the main article on Minamoto no Yoritomo, it states that Yoshitomo supported Go-Shirakawa and Michinori. (In addition, it seems to incorrectly state that Nobuyori supported Nijo and Kiyomori).

Lastly, the main article on the Heiji Rebellion again doesn't explicitly state Yoshitomo's and Nobuyori's support for anyone, but it seems to imply that Kiyomori allied himself to both Go-Shirakawa and Nijo.

So what's the real story? Was it just that Nobuyori and Yoshitomo attempted a coup d'etat over the Taira and the imperial court of Nijo and Go-Shirakawa? Or was there really a two-sided rivarlry between Nijo and Go-Shirakawa, and did Yoshitomo and Nobuyori really support Go-Shirakawa? And if so, what are the unstated details of what happened--why did Yoshitomo and Nobuyori turn on Go-Shirakawa and Michinori?

If someone knows these answers, can they go through and clean up the confusion on those articles mentioned here?


 * I was equally confused as I did the research to write these articles. I shall look into it again, but right now I can only guess that there is some element we are missing. LordAmeth 02:11, 16 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Okay, here's the real story, according to George Sansom's "History of Japan to 1334." I'll try to look over all these related articles and fix them up best as I can, but I'd appreciate your help in that, as I don't find much time for Wiki nowadays.


 * Yoshitomo and Nobuyori supported Go-Shirakawa, while Kiyomori supported Nijo. When Kiyomori left the city in 1160, Yoshitomo and Nobuyori attacked both Nijo and Go-Shirakawa, kidnapping the latter and setting up Nobuyori as Imperial Chancellor. Essentially, as near as I can figure it, Nobuyori "supported" Go-Shirakawa in as far as he wanted to make him a puppet ruler while he (Nobuyori) became the real power behind the throne. Thus, he needed to eliminate the power of Nijo and his supporters, as well as Michinori and the other advisors to Go-Shirakawa. Never in Japanese history has anyone killed the Emperor or otherwise tried to become Emperor - always in these sorts of conflicts one is seeking to gain power over the Emperor, or merely to become powerful in his court. Since Go-Shirakawa already favored Nobuyori, it was easier to set up Go-Shirakawa as a puppet ruler than it would have been to somehow put himself in control of Nijo's court, above all the Taira and other enemies of his own. I hope that helps clear things up somewhat. I don't blame you for being confused; I don't fully get it myself. LordAmeth 11:27, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

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