Talk:Full Sail University/Archive 3

Proposed update for "History" section re: partnership with WWE
Hello again! I am back with an additional edit request, which I am submitting on behalf of Full Sail, in an attempt to update the Wikipedia article.

Currently, the "History" section does not have any information post-2012, and ends with the following: "Later that year, WWE began filming episodes of its internet television show WWE NXT at Full Sail University." There is actually a much stronger partnership between Full Sail and WWE, spanning years and involving multiple series tapings and a student scholarship program. I propose adding an update on the ongoing partnership between Full Sail and WWE:



Again, I do not edit the main space, so I seek assistance from editors to review the prose and sourcing provided, and implement appropriately.

If this addition seems appropriate, reviewing editors are welcome to use the following markup:

In June 2015, Full Sail began hosting the WWE Tough Enough series. As part of an ongoing partnership between Full Sail and WWE, students receive opportunities to produce WWE NXT tapings, and merchandise and tickets sales contribute to a scholarship fund for students enrolled at the university. As of January 2018, the partnership between WWE and Full Sail had resulted in $385,000 in scholarships.

Thanks in advance. Inkian Jason (talk) 23:46, 2 August 2018 (UTC)
 * I have reworded the information and included as I do believe there is some important information in there. As an aside, the 1 source already there about 2012 is from bleacher report which is not a WP:RS. A better source is definitely needed there. -  Galatz גאליץ שיחה Talk  00:04, 22 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Thank you for reviewing this request and updating the article. Inkian Jason (talk) 01:44, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

Tags?
As disclosed above, I am currently working with Full Sail University to make improvements to this Wikipedia article. In particular, I was aiming to resolve the three warning tags at the top of the article with my edit requests. (Focusing on adding sourcing, removing unsourced content, and trimming out inappropriately sourced details.) As the requests have been quite large and I see how it can be difficult to work through them, I'd be happy to take a more targeted approach, if you will. To that end, can editors help specify which content they feel is currently problematic and then I can offer specific requests to address concerns?

A significant amount of unsourced content has been removed, based on previous edit requests, so I do wonder if some tags may no longer apply. Either way, knowing what should be addressed would be helpful for proposing additional improvements to the page that are easier for editors to review and implement. Thank you for any feedback. Inkian Jason (talk) 20:15, 13 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Talk pages are sometimes not actively moderated and you will need to either ping a user (such as how you got this notification) or when making a list of suggestions, adding to the top of the section to grab the attention of other editors. (I'm also notifying  as there has been previous discussion) –  TheGridExe  ( talk )  04:09, 16 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Yes, I believe the tags were added by User:Justlettersandnumbers back in September 2017. I see you've contributed to relevant talk page discussions above. Do any of you have thoughts on whether or not the tags are still necessary, or feel inclined to assist with the above edit request to improve the "History" section? I'm seeking an editor who is willing to review proposed text and sourcing in order to improve the article and address these tags as needed. Inkian Jason (talk) 20:58, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

Since you've participated in a couple discussions below, I'm curious if you're willing to share why you feel the "neutrality" tag at the top of the article is necessary. I'd like to try addressing specific concerns, if possible. Inkian Jason (talk) 21:40, 7 August 2018 (UTC)

✅., after two weeks with no further response, remarks, concerns and entire page history as well as archived peer review, I have removed the remaining tag for neutrality. The other two tags were already removed because of perceived and tangible improvement to article and this editor sees no reason to unilaterally hold up further sections and requests. Sincerely and all the best for continued progress. Fylbecatulous talk 03:48, 22 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Inkian Jason (talk) 15:16, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

Dan Patrick School of Sportscasting
I am back with an additional edit request to update this Wikipedia article, which I'm submitting on behalf of Full Sail. As mentioned above, the current article has little information about the university since 2012. I propose adding mention of the school's Dan Patrick School of Sportscasting, which was established in 2017. I'm not sure if this addition would be more appropriate for the "Academics" section or the "History" section, but I suggest the following update:



If this addition seems appropriate, feel free to use the following markup:


 * Full Sail University's Dan Patrick School of Sportscasting was established in 2017, with a new sportscasting degree program and instruction provided by sportscaster, radio personality, and actor Dan Patrick, among other industry leaders.

Thanks again for your consideration. Inkian Jason (talk) 01:52, 22 August 2018 (UTC)
 * ✅ Agree with this edit request. Chose to place under "Academics' section due to other outstanding 'History' section updates needed. Could be placed with 'History', but section is lengthy for further consideration.  Thanks for your continued work,
 * Thank you for reviewing and updating the article. Inkian Jason (talk) 15:17, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

"Notable people" section
Hello again! I am back to propose an additional improvement to this article on behalf of Full Sail. Per User:Justlettersandnumbers' suggestion above to focus on significant omissions, I have drafted an expanded list of notable people for the article's "Notable people" section. Currently, the section mentions only Dave Arneson, Stedman Graham, and Machinedrum. I've expanded this section to include a (completely sourced) list of other notable instructors and alumni associated with Full Sail.

I propose the following:

Instructors at Full Sail have included Dungeons & Dragons co-creator Dave Arneson, who taught game design, and Stedman Graham.

The school created the Full Sail University Hall of Fame to recognize accomplished alumni in 2009. Notable alumni include:


 * Mohammad Alavi, video game developer
 * Marcella Araica, audio and mixing engineer
 * Adam Best, entrepreneur, film producer, political activist, writer
 * Darren Lynn Bousman, film director and screenwriter
 * Collie Buddz, musician and singer
 * Corrin Campbell, musician and singer
 * Demo Castellon, audio engineer
 * Jason Citron, creator of Discord
 * Ryan Connolly, filmmaker, Internet celebrity, presenter
 * Chad Crawford, television host
 * Christine D'Clario, Christian music singer and songwriter
 * Deraj, hip hop musician
 * DJ Swivel, music producer, mixer, audio engineer, disc jockey
 * Dylan Dresdow, audio engineer
 * FKi 1st, record producer and disc jockey


 * Michael Hicks, game designer, musician, programmer, writer
 * Mike Jaggerr, musician, producer, songwriter
 * Jason JetPlane, musician, record producer, singer-songwriter
 * Sebastian Krys, audio engineer and record producer
 * Ross Lara, audio engineer, musician, record producer
 * Brooke Lauren, actress, photographer, producer
 * Machinedrum, electronic music producer and performer
 * Ashish Manchanda, audio engineer and music producer
 * Graham Marsh, audio engineer and record producer
 * William McDowell, gospel musician
 * Steven C. Miller, director, editor, screenwriter
 * Brett Novak, director and filmmaker
 * Susan Nwokedi, actress, filmmaker, producer
 * Jeff Pinilla, director, editor, producer
 * Gary Rizzo, audio engineer, re-recording mixer
 * Scott Stenzel, racing driver
 * Phil Tan, audio engineer
 * TooSmooth, musician, singer, songwriter, record producer
 * Justin "J.T." Trawick, musician and record producer
 * Alex Tumay, audio engineer and disc jockey
 * Hunter Via, film editor
 * Adam Wingard, cinematographer, film director and editor

This list is similar to others included in most university articles, and the descriptions used following peoples' names come from the introductions of their respective Wikipedia articles. Again, all entries are notable people, and sourced appropriately. If the proposed content is satisfactory, feel free to copy and paste this markup:

Instructors at Full Sail have included Dungeons & Dragons co-creator Dave Arneson, who taught game design, and Stedman Graham.

The school created the Full Sail University Hall of Fame to recognize accomplished alumni in 2009. Notable alumni include:

* Mohammad Alavi, video game developer * Marcella Araica, audio and mixing engineer * Adam Best, entrepreneur, film producer, political activist, writer * Darren Lynn Bousman, film director and screenwriter * Collie Buddz, musician and singer * Manuel Calderon, audio engineer, mixer, producer * Corrin Campbell, musician and singer * Jason Citron, creator of Discord * Ryan Connolly, filmmaker, Internet celebrity, presenter * Drew Correa, record producer and songwriter * Chad Crawford, television host * Christine D'Clario, Christian music singer and songwriter * Deraj, hip hop musician * DJ Swivel, music producer, mixer, audio engineer, disc jockey * Dylan Dresdow, audio engineer * FKi 1st, record producer and disc jockey * Michael Heart, audio engineer, musician, singer-songwriter * Michael Hicks, game designer, musician, programmer, writer * Mike Jaggerr, musician, producer, songwriter * Jason JetPlane, musician, record producer, singer-songwriter * Sebastian Krys, audio engineer and record producer * Ross Lara, audio engineer, musician, record producer * Brooke Lauren, actress, photographer, producer * Machinedrum, electronic music producer and performer * Ashish Manchanda, audio engineer and music producer * Graham Marsh, audio engineer and record producer * William McDowell, gospel musician * Steven C. Miller, director, editor, screenwriter * Brett Novak, director and filmmaker * Susan Nwokedi, actress, filmmaker, producer * Jeff Pinilla, director, editor, producer * Gary Rizzo, audio engineer, re-recording mixer * Scott Stenzel, racing driver * Phil Tan, audio engineer * TooSmooth, musician, singer, songwriter, record producer * Justin "J.T." Trawick, musician and record producer * Alex Tumay, audio engineer and disc jockey * Hunter Via, film editor * Adam Wingard, cinematographer, film director and editor
 * Demo Castellon, audio engineer

Thanks for your consideration, and please let me know if you have any questions. Inkian Jason (talk) 14:45, 19 July 2018 (UTC)
 * While the list does feel a little long, most entries have the own articles and accompanying sources, and the three-column styling makes it look compact. I think it'd be fine to include it like this, opposition may be expressed by third parties. I had to strip the list of some sources that overly seemed to be unreliable (personal blogs, etc.), which also led to three individuals—Manuel Calderon, Drew Correa and Michael Heart—having no sources at all. These are commented out in my version:

Instructors at Full Sail have included Dungeons & Dragons co-creator Dave Arneson, who taught game design, and Stedman Graham.

The school created the Full Sail University Hall of Fame to recognize accomplished alumni in 2009.

Notable alumni include:


 * Mohammad Alavi, video game developer
 * Marcella Araica, audio and mixing engineer
 * Adam Best, entrepreneur, film producer, political activist, writer
 * Darren Lynn Bousman, film director and screenwriter
 * Collie Buddz, musician and singer


 * Corrin Campbell, musician and singer
 * Demo Castellon, audio engineer
 * Jason Citron, creator of Discord
 * Ryan Connolly, filmmaker, Internet celebrity, presenter


 * Chad Crawford, television host
 * Christine D'Clario, Christian music singer and songwriter
 * Deraj, hip hop musician
 * DJ Swivel, music producer, mixer, audio engineer, disc jockey
 * Dylan Dresdow, audio engineer
 * FKi 1st, record producer and disc jockey


 * Michael Hicks, game designer, musician, programmer, writer
 * Mike Jaggerr, musician, producer, songwriter
 * Jason JetPlane, musician, record producer, singer-songwriter
 * Sebastian Krys, audio engineer and record producer
 * Ross Lara, audio engineer, musician, record producer
 * Brooke Lauren, actress, photographer, producer
 * Machinedrum, electronic music producer and performer
 * Ashish Manchanda, audio engineer and music producer
 * Graham Marsh, audio engineer and record producer
 * William McDowell, gospel musician
 * Steven C. Miller, director, editor, screenwriter
 * Brett Novak, director and filmmaker
 * Susan Nwokedi, actress, filmmaker, producer
 * Jeff Pinilla, director, editor, producer
 * Gary Rizzo, audio engineer, re-recording mixer
 * Scott Stenzel, racing driver
 * Phil Tan, audio engineer
 * TooSmooth, musician, singer, songwriter, record producer
 * Justin "J.T." Trawick, musician and record producer
 * Alex Tumay, audio engineer and disc jockey
 * Hunter Via, film editor
 * Adam Wingard, cinematographer, film director and editor


 * Please review if you are able to obtain reliable sources for these three. If so, just include them in my version. If not, I can overtake the existing list (with the commented-out individuals deleted) into the article. Lordtobi  ( &#9993; ) 16:04, 22 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks for reviewing this request. I am fine adding your version to the article, and I can try finding better sources for the removed names at a later date. Inkian Jason (talk) 16:09, 22 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Sure, I'll insert the list into the article. Lordtobi  ( &#9993; ) 16:15, 22 August 2018 (UTC)
 * ✅. Lordtobi  ( &#9993; ) 16:17, 22 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your help, and for updating the article. Just to let you know, if you preferred having the columns, Full Sail is not married to the Hall of Fame image and would be totally fine with it being removed. Thanks again! Inkian Jason (talk) 16:35, 22 August 2018 (UTC)
 * I think the present markup is fine (obviously I cannot tell for everyone, but it looks fine on my setup, which is a very common one). If you still think the image is superfluous (after all, there is not much to see there) I can still remove it. Lordtobi  ( &#9993; ) 16:43, 22 August 2018 (UTC)
 * On my screen, there is just one column of names, presumably because the image interferes with the "div col" template. The image can be removed altogether, or alternatively, moved to the "History" section, which also mentions the Hall of Fame. This is actually related to another request I just submitted, if you have a moment to consider an article update while deciding to remove or relocate the image. For what it's worth, Full Sail says the Hall of Fame looks nothing like what the nearly 10-year-old image depicts. Inkian Jason (talk) 20:00, 22 August 2018 (UTC)
 * If it's outdated, it is indeed subject to removal or revision. I don't see a free-use replace currently so I'll opt for deletion. Lordtobi  ( &#9993; ) 20:03, 22 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Inkian Jason (talk) 20:04, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

Request to merge 2 short paragraphs and add more detail for same time period
I have another suggestion for this Wikipedia article, which I'm submitting on behalf of Full Sail. Currently, the "History" section has the following 2 paragraphs:
 * As the university grew between 2006 and 2011, the curriculum and degree programs were broadened, adding programs such as a bachelor of science in sports marketing and media, and a master of science degree in game design.
 * On April 20, 2009, Full Sail marked its 30th anniversary with the opening of the Full Sail University Hall of Fame.

I propose merging these 2 paragraphs to improve flow. Additionally, I propose adding mention of a partnership with a major university and a snapshot of Full Sail's degree offerings and student population from the same time period:



The claims can be verified by this source, which is already used in the existing article (defined as "UF and Full Sail").

If these changes were implemented, here's how the proposed content would look:

As the university grew between 2006 and 2011, the curriculum and degree programs were broadened, adding programs such as a bachelor of science in sports marketing and media, and a master of science degree in game design. On April 20, 2009, Full Sail marked its 30th anniversary with the opening of the Full Sail University Hall of Fame. In late 2011, the University of Florida and Full Sail announced plans to share program resources and make transferring between institutions easier for students. Full Sail offered 37 degree programs and had approximately 15,200 students enrolled at the time.

If this reorganization and addition seems appropriate, reviewing editors are welcome to copy and paste the following markup into the "History" section:

As the university grew between 2006 and 2011, the curriculum and degree programs were broadened, adding programs such as a bachelor of science in sports marketing and media, and a master of science degree in game design. On April 20, 2009, Full Sail marked its 30th anniversary with the opening of the Full Sail University Hall of Fame. In late 2011, the University of Florida and Full Sail announced plans to share program resources and make transferring between institutions easier for students. Full Sail offered 37 degree programs and had approximately 15,200 students enrolled at the time.

Thanks for your consideration. Inkian Jason (talk) 16:37, 22 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Honestly I don't like this. I am concerned that the edit proposed above could mislead potential Full Sail students into believing they could start their degree at Full Sail and easily transfer to UF. I am not convinced by the article you cited that this is the case. The article clearly states that the collaboration allows students to transfer from UF to Full Sail. The article does not specifically say the collaboration allows Full Sail students to transfer to UF. What the article does say is Glover said the collaboration will allow students graduating from one institution to more easily move to programs at the other: now the question is, does this refer to moving from Full Sail to UF or the opposite (or both)?


 * But to the contrary, the transfer requirements page on UF's website states that transfer students must have completed an Associate of Arts degree from a Florida public institution or at least 60 transferable semester credit hours from a regionally accredited institution. Full Sail is neither regionally accredited nor a public institution. Based on this information, I am having trouble seeing how the collaboration allows Full Sail students to transfer to UF. This edit is misleading, to say the least. Altamel (talk) 04:23, 23 August 2018 (UTC)


 * Thank you for reviewing this request. My goal here was to improve flow by merging short paragraphs and sharing other coverage found for the same time period, but I understand your concern regarding transfer reciprocity. (For context: I had proposed this change in my original request to improve the "History" section, which was declined for being too large, so I was trying to break that request down into shorter, more specific asks.)


 * Since you mentioned accreditation, I should ask, in the previously proposed "History" section, I suggested adding the text: "", per this source, which says, "Within six years after arriving in Florida in 1980, Full Sail was offering comprehensive degrees and had earned accreditation from the Accrediting Commission of Career Schools and Colleges, allowing its students to qualify for federal student loans." Currently, ACCSC is mentioned in the lead and "Criticism" section, but with no historical context. Does this seem like a reasonable addition for describing the school's evolution? There are a few other program developments I had proposed for the history section, but they are not crucial details, so I will move on to other sections. Inkian Jason (talk) 19:25, 23 August 2018 (UTC)


 * Since the history section already notes that the accreditation allowed Full Sail to issue degrees, the only new context the edit adds is explaining how the accreditation allowed Full Sail students to take out loans. Can you explain what that different is intended to add to the article? Altamel (talk) 22:30, 23 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Currently, the "History" section just says, "the following year, it was accredited to grant specialized associate degrees." My goal was to name the institution providing accreditation. I also felt the ability for students to take out loans may be worth mentioning briefly as a general evolution of the school, but if you disagree, no problem. Inkian Jason (talk) 18:05, 24 August 2018 (UTC)

Request to update the "Campus" section
Hello again! I am back with an additional edit request for the "Campus" section, which I am submitting on behalf of Full Sail. Currently, the campus section has no information post-2011, so some updating is needed. I've suggested specific content and sourcing below for community review.

1. "", per this source and this source for the first sentence, and this source and this source for the second sentence.

If helpful, the below markup can be used for these 4 inline citations:



2. "", per this source, this source, and this source.

If helpful, the below markup can be used for these inline citations:



I am looking for volunteer editors who can review these requested changes and update the article accordingly. Like before, I can respond to questions here or on my talk page. Since this request is gaming-related, I'm curious if you're willing to take a look and offer feedback.

Thanks again! Inkian Jason (talk) 21:48, 28 August 2018 (UTC)
 * I would have probably said yes, with the tone altered a bit to sound more neutral. The sources are good, even if "Maker Studios and Full Sail launch new digital studio" comes close to the original press release (yet it's not a copy-paste, but a report on the press release). However, it's already been declined by another user (see top of section). IMO, noting the existence of something in one sentence is not equal to promotion (obviously, it is meant to promote FSU, but you are not constantly reiterating how great this is or how FSU is better than others, which would unambigous promotion), especially since there are also non-shallow news on them. This is why we allow but also limit COI contributions. Lordtobi  ( &#9993; ) 10:18, 29 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Thank you both for contributing to this discussion. I'm certainly open to wording changes, if either of you have thoughts on updating the article's program and facilities information in another way. Lordtobi, what wording did you have in mind? I may ask for additional feedback at a relevant WikiProject, since different opinions are expressed here, and a third opinion may be helpful. Thanks again for weighing in. Inkian Jason (talk) 01:40, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

Two "Campus" section corrections for consideration
I am back with another edit request, which I am submitting on behalf of Full Sail University. I'd like to point out two inaccuracies for editors to consider correcting:


 * 1) The first is regarding the sentence, "" This should be in past tense as this relationship is not ongoing, so: ""
 * 2) Secondly, Full Sail no longer occupies the Gateway Center in Downtown Orlando, so I'd like editors to consider removing the sentence, "", or at least updating this content appropriately so readers aren't made to believe the university has a current presence at Gateway Center.

Thank you. Inkian Jason (talk) 18:40, 6 September 2018 (UTC)
 * I see the first part of this request was address with this edit. Is a page watcher willing to weigh in on the second part of this request? Thanks in advance. Inkian Jason (talk) 22:42, 12 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Can you provide a citation that shows Full Sail is no longer at this location? Kemples (talk) 00:41, 16 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Rather than removing the sentence outright I would suggest adding another sentence stating when and where they moved from the Gateway Center location, but yeah, that would require a source. Lordtobi  ( &#9993; ) 09:25, 16 September 2018 (UTC)

"Criticism" section heading
Hello again! It's my understanding that standalone "criticism" and "controversies" sections are discouraged, in order for articles to present information neutrally. An editor recently reviewed and copy edited this article (at my request) and as part of their edits, they created a separate Criticism section. I'm grateful for their review of the article, so I didn't want to push back on this with them if a Criticism section is something that editors would generally prefer.

However, I want to ask editors, is it reasonable to suggest removing the "Criticism" section heading? The criticism content seems related to the cost of academic programs and accreditation, so I'm not sure any text relocation is required -- the section heading could simply be removed and the criticism content would then fall under the "Academics" section. I should also note, there seemed to be support to remove the "Criticism" section heading above.

Thanks to editors for any feedback. Pinging you two as well, since you weighed in on the criticism discussion above. Inkian Jason (talk) 18:08, 13 September 2018 (UTC)


 * If removing one header fixes a problem, then do it. Binksternet (talk) 18:52, 13 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your reply. I do not edit the main space because of my conflict of interest. Would you remove the header if you're willing and feel it's appropriate? Inkian Jason (talk) 19:15, 13 September 2018 (UTC)


 * I removed the header per the request. Lordtobi  ( &#9993; ) 09:21, 16 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Inkian Jason (talk) 17:39, 17 September 2018 (UTC)

Request to add mention of Lakeview Office Park
Hello, I am back with an additional edit request for the "Campus" section, this time to mention to Lakeview property expansion, per this source. I propose the following:

If helpful, here is markup for the inline citation:



I am pinging you since you recently weighed in on the above campus request regarding Wargaming and the Full Sail User Experience Lab (where proposed wording is still welcome), as well as the update about Gateway Center. Thanks for your consideration. Inkian Jason (talk) 15:21, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
 * ✅. Lordtobi  ( &#9993; ) 07:36, 19 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Thank you for reviewing this request and updating the article. Inkian Jason (talk) 15:35, 19 September 2018 (UTC)

Request to correct information re: student population and tuition
Hi again, I have an additional request for improving this article, which I am submitting on behalf of Full Sail.

Currently, the introduction ends with the following: " This content is problematic for a couple of reasons:


 * The current number of undergraduate students is inaccurate. According to the National Center for Education Statistics (U.S. Department of Education), the student population is 18,605, of which 16,908 are undergraduates. This is significantly higher than 8,900. I propose updating the lead appropriately.
 * Adding mention of the $80,000 cost for a 21-month course, based on a 2012 source, seems at best unnecessary detail and at worst a misrepresentative figure. I would argue a single outdated source should not be used to represent typical tuition in the lead. Full Sail offers many degree programs with varying course lengths. According to NCES (same URL as above), the estimated tuition for academic year 2017-2018 was $23,694. This seems like a more reliable source to use, if tuition rates are even worth including at all.

Given these concerns, I propose the following as replacement text for the introduction:



If this seems appropriate, following is markup for the inline citation:



I do not edit the main space directly, and I am asking for help from volunteer editors to review this request and update the article appropriately. Please let me know if you have any questions or concerns, and thanks in advance for any help. Inkian Jason (talk) 00:19, 2 August 2018 (UTC)

Using the source you suggested, I updated the undergrad numbers to reflect the 2018 count as well as the tuition estimate to reflect a student who had taken 8 semesters total beginning in 2014/2015 and ending 2017/2018, a figure which works out to about 2000 dollars less than the figure you suggested to use for the yearly tuition.  spintendo   06:44, 2 August 2018 (UTC)

Request to correct number of postgraduate students
Thanks for the help above. However, the introduction still has an outdated figure for the postgraduate students. According to the NCES (same source used above), there were 1,697 postgraduate students, which is significantly higher than the article suggests. Is an editor willing to update the article? As a reminder, I'm working with Full Sail to propose article improvements, and I seek editor assistance because I do not edit the main space directly given my COI.

Thanks! Inkian Jason (talk) 18:35, 2 August 2018 (UTC)

 spintendo   21:58, 2 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks for updating the infobox. I was actually requesting to update the introduction. Can you please update "and 170 postgraduate students" in the lead, too? Otherwise, the article remains inaccurate. Thank you for taking another look in advance. Inkian Jason (talk) 22:10, 2 August 2018 (UTC)


 * Sorry I forgot about that.  spintendo   23:10, 2 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks again for your asssistance. Inkian Jason (talk) 23:41, 2 August 2018 (UTC)

, you removed sourced information about this from the article in order to satisfy the demands of a COI editor. It might perhaps have been courteous to invite input from the editor who had added that information (which in this case was, I believe, me). There's no reason to believe that the figures you added are any more "up-to-date" than those given by Petersons. I can't begin to explain the wide difference between the two sources, but perhaps someone else can? Meanwhile, I've reverted to the previous version. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 17:07, 7 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Hello. I've re-opened the edit request and notified User:Spintendo on their user talk page, so they're aware of this discussion. My understanding is the U.S. Department of Education is a reliable source. The Peterson's source is not accurate, and I'm just suggesting a correction to this article for editors to consider. Thanks, Inkian Jason (talk) 17:23, 7 August 2018 (UTC)
 * I am slightly surprised at, not because they favor Peterson, but because they feel that the Department of Education's figures are invalid. I would ask Just if they were aware that the Peterson website splits Full Sail's info into three separate pages:
 * https://www.petersons.com/college-search/full-sail-university-four-year-college-description-000_10000700.aspx The first page covering their 4-year undergraduate BA degrees, which list 8,921 students
 * https://www.petersons.com/college-search/full-sail-university-two-year-college-description-000_10000701.aspx A second page for their 2-year undergrad AA degrees, which lists 8,921 students
 * https://www.petersons.com/graduate-schools/full-sail-university-000_10016184.aspx and a third page for their graduate degrees, which lists 170 students.
 * You'll notice that on both of the undergrad pages the figures appear to be identical. I don't know why Peterson chose to split the two degrees in this way, since an AA and a BA are both undergrad degrees, and the other colleges in Peterson's lists do not appear to split undergrad degrees in this same manner. It is curious though that the figure they give on both of these pages - 8,921 - is by itself roughly half the figure that the Department of Education uses.
 * You'll notice that on both of the undergrad pages the figures appear to be identical. I don't know why Peterson chose to split the two degrees in this way, since an AA and a BA are both undergrad degrees, and the other colleges in Peterson's lists do not appear to split undergrad degrees in this same manner. It is curious though that the figure they give on both of these pages - 8,921 - is by itself roughly half the figure that the Department of Education uses.


 * Could this figure simply be miscommunicated owing to the unusual division of Full Sail's pages into AA and BA degrees? I'd say it's a possibility. But the Department of Education's figures should at least be considered as reliable as Peterson's are. I would ask why the tuition fee, which was given in a current figure by the Dept. of Ed, has been replaced by a 6 year old figure from the NYTimes. The cost of degrees increase practically every year. Having a figure from 6 years doesnt seem so current when current figures are available.


 * On a final note, I just wanted to address Just's comment that I "removed sourced information about this from the article in order to satisfy the demands of a COI editor." Even mere considerations of tact seem to show the irrelevance of a situation where Inkian Jason places an edit request demand upon me — the same editor who they accused of incompetence at ANI not more than 5 months ago. I made the initial change not because they asked me to, but because I was familiar with the source they were requesting to be used (the Dept of Ed), a source which I believe to be reliable.  spintendo   19:59, 7 August 2018 (UTC)
 * As I said, I can't explain the discrepancy between the sources (though it might perhaps have something to do with distance learning?). But we don't normally just ignore one reliable source because another gives a different figure – either we need to find an explanation, or both figures should be reported, each with its respective source, right? Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 20:27, 7 August 2018 (UTC)
 * I don't personally have enough interest in this topic to look into why these sources are different but the first things I would look for would be if they're from the same year and use the same definitions. Ultimately, the numbers are all coming from the institution anyway so it's not like either of these sources is more accurate than the other.  Justlettersandnumbers's suspicion about online students is also a good place to look for a difference in definitions or counts as that is an area that is still unsettled e.g., . ElKevbo (talk) 21:12, 7 August 2018 (UTC)
 * If helpful, this Orlando Sentinel article says Full Sail had approximately 17,000 students, as of 2015. Inkian Jason (talk) 21:17, 7 August 2018 (UTC)

Hello again. This discussion seems to have stalled, unfortunately, but I just wanted to share an update that Full Sail is actively working with Peterson's to update current enrollment numbers. In the meantime, please let me know if any other sources can be used to update this error. Thanks, Inkian Jason (talk) 19:19, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

Request to revisit student population
Hello again! As mentioned above, Full Sail has worked with Peterson's to update their website. Peterson's now says there are 8,921 students plus an additional 10,250 students enrolled in online degree programs. As I recall, you preferred this source to the National Center for Education Statistics to show the increased student population. Now that Peterson's shows the higher student population might one of you be willing to update the article's prose and infobox appropriately? Please see the above discussion if needed, thank you. Inkian Jason (talk) 16:55, 30 November 2018 (UTC)
 * This looks very straight forward and uncontroversial so I don't mind you making this change yourself (but I can't speak for others). ElKevbo (talk) 17:53, 30 November 2018 (UTC)
 * , Inkian Jason (and other Beutler Ink editors) tend to not edit articles directly due to Wikipedia's COI guidelines no matter, how uncontroversial the change is. I think ideally you could just put forward the change. Lordtobi  ( &#9993; ) 17:59, 30 November 2018 (UTC)
 * That's unnecessarily bureaucratic; they have been completely transparent about this requested edit and our discussion has been very transparent and straight forward. I don't see the need for us to make additional work for Wikipedia volunteers. ElKevbo (talk) 18:40, 30 November 2018 (UTC)
 * , you're not wrong, but Inkian Jason strongly adheres to these guidelines, and that's a good thing. See e.g. WP:COIADVICE #6: "[...] add independent reliable sources when another editor has requested them, although it is better to supply them on the talk page for others to add." (emphasis mine). I've gone ahead and made the change. Lordtobi  ( &#9993; ) 18:49, 30 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks, but as Lordtobi mentioned, I do not edit the main space because of my conflict of interest, even for seemingly uncontroversial changes. I want to use caution here, too, since there was not agreement about updating the student population last time.
 * Thanks for updating the article. I noticed there's a stray "", and I was wondering if the infobox could be updated as well? Inkian Jason (talk) 21:33, 30 November 2018 (UTC)
 * ✅. Lordtobi  ( &#9993; ) 17:52, 4 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Thank you for revisiting. Inkian Jason (talk) 18:14, 4 December 2018 (UTC)

I'm not sure why, but another editor changed the infobox number. Inkian Jason (talk) 17:33, 21 December 2018 (UTC)
 * , undone. Please remember to ping involved editors when discussing their edits. Lordtobi  ( &#9993; ) 20:04, 21 December 2018 (UTC)

"Campus" section: request to improve wording and add mention of campus size and number of studios
Hello again. I am back with an additional request to improve the "Campus" section. Currently, the section begins with the following:
 * " The university moved to Winter Park…"

I propose replacing the red-colored text with the following green-colored text, which is similar but less redundant and offers more specific information, such as the size of the campus and the number of studios:


 * " The university moved to Winter Park…"

In the current article, "Winter Park" already appears three times before the "Campus" section (once in the lead, once in the infobox, and once in the "History" section), so I think removing "Winter Park" here is appropriate. Also, the next sentence starts with "The university moved to Winter Park...", so removing one use of "Winter Park" should not be confusing to readers. I've also added this Time article as an inline citation to verify the campus size and number of studios. This source is not currently used in the article, so I'm sharing markup for the inline citation, if helpful:



I'm pinging you again since you've helped with recent requests, and of course I welcome all editors to weigh in here. Thanks again for your consideration and assistance. Inkian Jason (talk) 18:54, 20 September 2018 (UTC)
 * What does refer to in this case? Since they do various works that could cover the term "studio", it should probably be disambiguated.  Lordtobi  ( &#9993; ) 06:09, 21 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks for reviewing this request. Good question, and honestly the sourcing seems to specify. That said, I'm not sure we need worry about how each studio is being used. Studios can be used for a variety of reasons, and as you've suggested, Full Sail offers a variety of programs. I should note, the current article uses "studios" generally. I hope this helps. Inkian Jason (talk) 15:38, 21 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Well, "back lot" is similarly not further specified in the source either (they are named in the same sentence). If the contexts gives away that they are filming locations, it should be added to both. If this is not the case, it should be added to neither. Lordtobi  ( &#9993; ) 15:56, 21 September 2018 (UTC)
 * This source confirms the backlot is used for film production. Also, I'm not suggesting we use this Full Sail link as an inline citation, but the press release confirms the backlot is used for film production and the studios are used for a variety of purposes, including film, game, and music production. On that basis, does it seem reasonable to note that the backlot is used for filming and just leave the studios as a general mention? Inkian Jason (talk) 16:59, 21 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Alright, seems good. I'm including the sentence. Lordtobi  ( &#9993; ) 18:32, 21 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Thank you for updating the article. Inkian Jason (talk) 18:35, 21 September 2018 (UTC)

Campus size
I see User:Justlettersandnumbers removed the following sentence with this edit: "Full Sail University's approximately 200-acre (81 ha) campus is located 8.6 miles (13.8 km) northeast of downtown Orlando." The campus size and location seem standard for university articles (see University of Florida, University of Texas at Austin, etc). Are you willing to add back this sentence, or can we at least discuss options below? Inkian Jason (talk) 17:08, 28 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Indeed I did, ; if you look at the edit summary I left, you will be able to discover why. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 17:15, 28 January 2019 (UTC)
 * The edit summary says "ce based on sources, rm some unsourced stuff". What was unsourced? There are many sources confirming the campus size:


 * http://content.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2047078,00.html says "With a 191-acre campus that features a back lot.."
 * https://www.petersons.com/online-schools/full-sail-university-200361000.aspx says "... all housed on 210 acres with 110+ Studios/Labs and 60+ Classrooms"
 * https://www.floridatrend.com/article/20009/garry-jones-journey-from-student-to-teacher-at-full-sail says "... 210-acre entertainment industry training ground..."
 * https://www.mixonline.com/news/full-sail-university-goes-all-in-on-esports says "... housed on the 210+ acre campus..."
 * Is there something wrong about including campus size? Inkian Jason (talk) 17:19, 28 January 2019 (UTC)
 * I've re-added the sentence, as the next cite in the paragraph sources the campus size bit, which to my mind is the less obviously-verifiable part. The distance from Orlando is almost a sky-is-blue part, but I would still like to see a source for it; that said requiring a source for something anyone can look up on any map is a level of rigor that is not typically applied to C-class articles, which is to say that it's a point of obvious improvement, like the CN tag on the sentence before, but not something worth stripping out of the article for. -- Pres N  18:25, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Regarding the section's first sentence, this Full Sail page confirms the claim, but I understand official websites are generally not appropriate for verifying facts. I don't know if this page by Hillel International would work? The college guide page says, "In 1980, FSU added video production and film production courses and, with the move in 1989 to its current campus, expanded its curriculum to include other entertainment and media-related areas of study." I'm not sure if the "citation needed" tag or this page as an inline citation is better. Inkian Jason (talk) 18:46, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
 * The Hillel source works well, I'll add it (since you can't). The Full Sail one is also fine, actually- the use of "first party" sources, or sources by the article's subject, is perfectly fine for explicit, objective facts. Where it can't be used is a) subjective statements, or b) to demonstrate notability. The problem comes in that it can't be used to demonstrate the notability of the statement you're citing, either- so while in this case the Full Sail source could be used to cite when the campus was moved, it can't be used to demonstrate that when it moved matters. As a result, if you use too many first-party sources in an article, it starts to feel like the whole thing just isn't that notable, if you can't find anyone external source that cares enough to write about it. My editorial judgement is that when a school moved locations is something that should be in this article, even if no external source has commented on the actual date, but if it was a bigger statement- say, if no one but an FS press release ever mentioned the esports center- then it would be much harder to justify putting it in the article. -- Pres N  19:58, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Thank you for removing the "citation needed" tag. Inkian Jason (talk) 20:20, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

Distance education
Hello again. I'd like to submit another request, this time to add a claim about one of the university's distance education options for students. I propose the text:



I don't edit the main space directly, so I'll let editors decide based on sourcing. "Pinging" you as a recent edit request reviewer. Thanks, Inkian Jason (talk) 23:08, 1 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Which section would you like this to be added to? Also, it may be helpful to include an edit request template. Darylgolden(talk) Ping when replying 01:26, 14 February 2019 (UTC)
 * I think the "Academics" section may be most appropriate. Inkian Jason (talk) 15:42, 14 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Can you clarify whether or not the program has already been implemented? Also, I'll have to leave this for another editor as I have to go on a Wikibreak to do real life things. Darylgolden(talk) Ping when replying 01:06, 17 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Looking at the sources, it is not clear that this was actually implemented yet- "The Florida-based school is collaborating with Doghead Simulations on a virtual classroom app." is not the same thing as "partnered to provide distance education students access to Rumii". Do you have a source that says that students are actually using it at FSU, or is it just that FSU is collaborating with Doghead to develop the app in the first place? -- Pres N  17:24, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks for reviewing this request and sourcing. I know Full Sail's website should not be used as an inline citation, but this page says, "Starting in 2018, Full Sail students in the online Game Design undergraduate program will begin using rumii to attend some of their classes and lectures in VR, with the goal of expanding the program to provide a unique experience for our online students." Knowing this, are there adjustments that can be made to the proposed wording above so the article can be updated appropriately? Inkian Jason (talk) 17:34, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Alright, I tweaked the description of Rumii to be a bit less marketing-y and added the item to Academics (where it already discussed online classes). I left the sources as they were, since the FSU page clarified what was ambiguous to me. -- Pres N  18:16, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks for updating the article. Do you mind removing the duplicate "partnered" before "to provide"? Inkian Jason (talk) 18:18, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Done TarkusAB talk 19:46, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Inkian Jason (talk) 19:47, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

User experience lab
For my next request, I'd like to propose adding mention of a major collaboration with the notable company Wargaming to the article's "Campus" section:



There are multiple secondary sources describing the user experience lab, and editors might consider updating the Wargaming article as well. I should note, I touched on Wargaming in a subsequent edit request. was open to adding mention of the collaboration, but specific wording was not finalized and the article has not been updated. I've trimmed the proposed text for this request. Thanks for your consideration, Inkian Jason (talk) 19:08, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
 * I'm actually feeling this inclusion would feel trivial. The article feels very bare, but I'm not sure this would be helpful. Zero Serenity (talk - contributions) 20:31, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks for replying. I think this lab is a significant addition to the university's campus, not to mention a collaboration with a notable video game company, but I was trying to add minimal mention to avoid any concerns of promotion. Would a more detailed addition be helpful so the claim seems less trivial? I invite you and other editors to review sourcing and determine more appropriate wording. Again, my goal is to update the "Campus" section with mention of the lab in some way. Inkian Jason (talk) 20:52, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
 * I'm thinking more beef (if you will) into the article itself about other topics, history and whatnot would be helpful here to allow for its inclusion. (Am I making sense?) Zero Serenity (talk - contributions) 20:57, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
 * I understand, and that's what I'm attempting to do here one request at a time. I certainly wouldn't expect you to catch up on all the previous talk page requests and discussions, but this request is part of an ongoing series of proposing improvements. This article was significantly out of date when I started, so I'm working to update based on secondary coverage as possible. Inkian Jason (talk) 21:05, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks for updating the article, Inkian Jason (talk) 18:38, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

Less list-like
The article feels too much like a list of things as opposed to properly written paragraphs. Can we try to do something about this? Add some connective tissue if you will. Zero Serenity (talk - contributions) 18:26, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks for starting this discussion. We've both posted to our respective talk pages about this, so I think we should centralize discussion here. I'm currently working with Full Sail to propose improvements to this article. I've tried more than once to improve the article's general flow and readability, specifically within the "History" section, but I've essentially been asked to limit my requests to one-off changes for easier editor review. I'm trying to comply as possible, but I agree, more improvements are needed. Inkian Jason (talk) 18:40, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Honestly you could draft a complete rewrite of the article and as long as at least one of us without a COI has reviewed it for not sounding too much like an ad. Granted, it would take us longer to review, but you can do it. Hint: Drafts Zero Serenity (talk - contributions) 20:08, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
 * How would you reconcile such a draft with the problem of deceptive advertising, ? We can't accept advertising copy written by paid agents because to do so may be illegal under United States law, the law that governs Wikipedia. Such content would be written for the purpose of promoting the business, but would be presented in the guise of a neutral Wikipedia article written by disinterested volunteers – the very essence of deceptive advertisement. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 20:17, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Largely its on the editing as it goes in. For the most part we're largely taking what Inkian writes an inserting it since its sourced. Essentially, verification while preserving the negative and critical aspects is the name of the game. Zero Serenity (talk - contributions) 20:30, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

Augmented reality and virtual reality
Hello! I have another request for consideration, this time focused on Full Sail's augmented reality (AR) and virtual reality (VR) coursework. I propose the following:



There are other sources to consider:
 * This Orlando Sentinel article says, "In response to growing need, Full Sail University in August will introduce coursework within its simulation and visualization program that teaches students AR and VR development. It's part of a $3 million space that combines two labs, one equipped with manufacturing tools as a sort of makerspace and another for the AR/VR program."
 * This Quartz article also discusses the AR/VR program, but I am not sure if Quartz is considered a reliable source or not, so I did not include as an inline citation above.

I'm not sure if this claim is more appropriate for the "Campus" section or the "Academics" section (this text is relevant to both), or if the sentence should be split so content can live in their respective sections. Ultimately, I will let editors decide how to add the content, if at all, but noting the AR/VR program's establishment as well as the campus' labs seem like appropriate updates. I should also note, I submitted a similar request (with additional claims) here, but User:Justlettersandnumbers rejected the addition for being too promotional. User:Lordtobi said adding mention may be appropriate with slightly different wording, but there was no consensus on preferred text. I am submitting slightly altered wording for reconsideration, and invite User:PresN and User:Zero Serenity to weigh in as well.

Thanks, Inkian Jason (talk) 18:37, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Added in, modified slightly to note that it's creating AR/VR games/projects, which is not the same thing as the VR distance-learning coursework. -- Pres N  19:45, 25 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Thank you for reviewing this request and updating the article. Inkian Jason (talk) 19:54, 25 February 2019 (UTC)

Two proposed changes for the "Notable people" section
Hello again. I'm submitting an edit request for what I believe are two noncontroversial changes:


 * 1) Last month, 2 entries in the "Notable people" section were removed because the subjects' Wikipedia articles were deleted. The Wikipedia article for Hunter Via has also been deleted. I propose removing mention of him in the "Notable people" section as well.
 * 2) In the same section, in the entry for Michael Barber (rapper), I believe the space between inline citations #89 and #90 should be removed, and a space between inline citation #90 and the word "rapper" should be added.

I believe these are obvious improvements, but I do not edit the main space directly because of my COI, so I'm hoping another editor will review and implement on my behalf. Thank you, Inkian Jason (talk) 23:30, 18 March 2019 (UTC)
 * ✅ &#123;&#123;3x&#124;p&#125;&#125;ery (talk) 21:27, 20 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks for reviewing this request. Inkian Jason (talk) 15:54, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

TV4 Entertainment's global operations relocation to the Full Sail campus
Hello again! I have another request to submit on behalf of Full Sail, this time to add mention of TV4 Entertainment's global operations relocation to campus, per Variety, the West Orange Times & Observer, and the Orlando Business Journal (link 1, link 2). I've proposed specific wording and sourcing below for editor review:


 * In February 2019, the digital studio TV4 Entertainment confirmed plans to relocate global operations from Los Angeles to the Full Sail campus and hire graduates in various fields.

I'm curious if you'd be willing to review this request as well and update the article appropriately, since you helped above. The partnership has been mentioned in multiple reliable sources. I included Variety and West Orange Times & Observer as inline citations because I understand these are preferred over local business journal sources. Thanks for your consideration, Inkian Jason (talk) 17:55, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
 * I decline to review this request and am leaving it for another reviewer. &#123;&#123;3x&#124;p&#125;&#125;ery (talk) 18:54, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
 * That's ok! Thanks for adding the template. Inkian Jason (talk) 20:25, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

Reply 21-MAR-2019
Regards, Spintendo  21:03, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
 * 1) With regards to "confirmed plans to relocate global operations", a confirmation of plans still involves those future plans, which is generally recommended as information not to add, per WP:FUTURE. Resubmit your request in April 2019, after this move has occurred — along with references stating it has occurred.
 * 2) With regards to "hire graduates in various fields" this is expected to take place "over the next few years" — which should also be mentioned after it has occurred.

Awards
Hi again. I'm back with another request, which I'm submitting on behalf of Full Sail University. Following is the current "Awards" section:

In 1989, 1990, and 1991, the Full Sail Center for the Recording Arts won the Mix magazine outstanding institutional achievement award for recording schools.

In 2005 Rolling Stone called Full Sail “one of the five best music programs in the country”.

The college was named FAPSC School/College of the Year (an award for which only career colleges in Florida were eligible) by the Florida Association of Postsecondary Schools and Colleges (FAPSC) in 2008 and 2011, 21st-century best practices in distance learning by the United States Distance Learning Association (USDLA) in 2011, and was the recipient of a 2011 New Media Consortium Center for Excellence award.

There are a few other recognitions I believe are appropriate to add to this section, specifically rankings by College Magazine, In Tune Monthly, and The Princeton Review. I've proposed an updated "Awards" section below. The first half should look pretty familiar, but I've added additional dates and added a comma after "In 2005". The last paragraph has rankings by reputable sources grouped by program (first game design, then music). I've tried to be very brief, neutral, and keep content in chronological order. Following is a rendering of the proposed "Awards" section, which I'm hoping editors will review and implement appropriately:

In 1989, 1990, and 1991, the Full Sail Center for the Recording Arts won the Mix magazine outstanding institutional achievement award for recording schools.

In 2005, Rolling Stone called Full Sail "one of the five best music programs in the country".

The college was named FAPSC School/College of the Year (an award for which only career colleges in Florida were eligible) by the Florida Association of Postsecondary Schools and Colleges (FAPSC) in 2008, 2011, and 2014. Full Sail was recognized for its 21st-century best practices in distance learning by the United States Distance Learning Association (USDLA) in 2011, and was the recipient of New Media Consortium Center for Excellence Award in 2011 and 2015.

Full Sail was included in The Princeton Review 2010 list of the nation's top fifty undergraduate video game design programs, and ranked number 17 and number 18 in their 2016 and 2018 lists of top 25 graduate schools for game design, respectively. Full Sail also ranked number 30 in The Princeton Review's list of undergraduate programs for game design. In 2018, College Magazine ranked Full Sail number five in their list of the top 10 college for video game design. In Tune Monthly included Full Sail in their 2017 and 2018 lists of the "best music schools".

If the proposed content is appropriate, here is markup for easier copying and pasting:

In 1989, 1990, and 1991, the Full Sail Center for the Recording Arts won the Mix magazine outstanding institutional achievement award for recording schools.

In 2005, Rolling Stone called Full Sail "one of the five best music programs in the country".

The college was named FAPSC School/College of the Year (an award for which only career colleges in Florida were eligible) by the Florida Association of Postsecondary Schools and Colleges (FAPSC) in 2008, 2011, and 2014. Full Sail was recognized for its 21st-century best practices in distance learning by the United States Distance Learning Association (USDLA) in 2011, and was the recipient of New Media Consortium Center for Excellence Award in 2011 and 2015.

Full Sail was included in The Princeton Review 2010 list of the nation's top fifty undergraduate video game design programs, and ranked number 17 and number 18 in their 2016 and 2018 lists of top 25 graduate schools for game design, respectively. Full Sail also ranked number 30 in The Princeton Review's list of undergraduate programs for game design. In 2018, College Magazine ranked Full Sail number five in their list of the top 10 college for video game design. In Tune Monthly included Full Sail in their 2017 and 2018 lists of the "best music schools".

I don't edit the main space directly, so I'm seeking editors to review and update the live article.

Thanks for your consideration. Inkian Jason (talk) 15:02, 23 April 2019 (UTC)
 * What in your opinion is the purpose of these proposed changes, ? To me it looks as if they are intended to promote this institution – particularly as you are being paid to achieve that aim. Wikipedia does not tolerate promotion of any kind, and in my view that definitely includes this kind. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 20:03, 23 April 2019 (UTC)
 * The proposed content may have a positive tone, but promotion is not my goal. Most university articles have Rankings sections, and I believe my proposed additions are brief, neutral, and appropriate per College_and_university_article_advice. My goal is simply to update the article's existing "Awards" section with recent rankings by reputable sources in a matter-of-fact way. Thanks, Inkian Jason (talk) 15:02, 24 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Thank you for updating the article, User:PresN. Inkian Jason (talk) 15:33, 2 May 2019 (UTC)

Esports Arena
Hello again! I'm back with an additional request, this time to add mention of the planned esports arena to the article's "Campus" section.

I propose the following text and source:


 * In October 2018, Full Sail announced plans to construct an esports arena called "The Fortress". The 11,200-square-foot venue, scheduled to be completed in early 2019, will cost approximately $6 million and accommodate up to 500 spectators.

Thanks for your consideration. Inkian Jason (talk) 16:54, 28 January 2019 (UTC)
 * So, the sources are a press-release and a passing mention? For an event in the future? I suggest we wait until there's confirmation in solid independent reliable sources that the thing has actually been built, and then decide if it's worth mentioning. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 17:28, 28 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Are Orlando Weekly or Orlando Sentinel considered unreliable sources? I'm sharing some other links below:


 * "Full Sail University to build $6M esports arena", Orlando Business Journal (October 10, 2018)
 * "Full Sail to launch esports arena early next year", Orlando Sentinel (October 10, 2018)
 * "Full Sail University constructing on-campus esports arena", West Orange Times & Observer (October 18, 2018)
 * "Esports' growth spurs Florida university to build start-of-the-art facility", Sporting News - this article confirms construction on the arena began in June 2018


 * This is a major development, but you're suggesting the article cannot be updated until the venue is open? Inkian Jason (talk) 17:41, 28 January 2019 (UTC)
 * I think that there's a way to word the sentence that is in keeping with CRYSTAL; it's mostly there, so I disagree with Justlettersandnumbers's reading, but can still be adjusted. Specifically, we can't say that anything "will" happen, but we it's objectively true today that something "is announced" or "is expected to". So:
 * In October 2018, Full Sail announced plans to construct an esports arena called "The Fortress". The venue is scheduled to be completed in early 2019, and is planned to be a 11,200-square-foot venue that can accommodate up to 500 spectators, with expected construction costs of approximately $6 million.
 * Copyedit needed, of course, but the idea is not to say that it "will cost" or "will accommodate" something, because that's not yet true today (the seating is probably going to be accurate after-the-fact; the cost less so). CRYSTAL is mostly about creating articles on future events, but even in terms of inside of an existing article, my interpretation is that it's fine to add future events as long as the framing and tense is about the plans as they verifiably exist today, not the event/building as it "will" exist. -- Pres N  18:46, 28 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks for contributing to this discussion. I am fine with your preferred wording, if you're willing to update the article's "Campus" section accordingly. Inkian Jason (talk) 18:51, 28 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Since no one objected, and I find it a useful addition to the article and not puffery, and I don't have a COI myself, I've gone ahead and added my version (with the two refs supplied by Inkian). I stuck it in Campus. -- Pres N  17:33, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks for updating the article. Also, if you happen to have an opinion or the appropriateness of mentioning the campus size, I invite you to weigh in immediately above. Inkian Jason (talk) 17:36, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

Update
Hello again. I'd like to propose an update to the article's text regarding the esports arena known as "The Fortress". Currently the article says:

The arena's construction is complete, so the article should not discuss the project as something still to happen ("" and ""). This source says, "Less than a year after it was announced, Full Sail University has officially opened the largest collegiate esports arena in the country... The Fortress is home to Full Sail’s esports team, the Armada." This source also confirms the opening, specs (11,200-square-foot, fits up to 500 fans, 400 LED tiles), and that the arena is home of the collegiate e-sports team, Armada. I propose updating the article's text to the following:



You assisted with the previous edit request to add mention of the arena, so I was wondering if you'd be willing to update the article's text based on this new sourcing. I've replaced mention of the estimated construction cost with mention of the Armada esports team, which I think provides a bit more insight into the university's culture. I'm certainly open to alternative wording based on what you think are the most important aspects of the arena.

Thanks for your consideration. Inkian Jason (talk) 22:12, 7 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Update looks reasonable, done. -- Pres N  20:52, 10 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your help. Inkian Jason (talk) 14:20, 11 June 2019 (UTC)