Talk:Funk metal

Untitled
What in the hell is Sublime doing on this page, THEY ABSOULUTLY NOTHING TO DO WITH METAL

FYI Faith No More is more closely associated wit San Francisco. (maxcap 20:57, 24 September 2005 (UTC))

Thats a lie
What? when this supossed funk metal was created? thats bullshit....Red Hot? theres nothin, thanks god, named funk metal, among people who listen real metal...whats next? reggae metal? country metal? tex-mex metal? ::Actually, country metal is a genre already - and there are plenty of dub artists who mix reggae with metal. You don't argue well. What would you call Infectious Grooves? A mixture of funk and metal seems like "funk-metal" to me.

but...take uplift mofo party plan, there was a lot of riff metal or almost metal...fight like brave for example.. i think that the funk metal term is created becouse "funk punk" term was already created for an other type of music like gang of four, pop group etc.."funk rock" was already give to something works of G.clinton,Sly Stone or Prince.. Funk Metal is different..more racous,more guitar oriented, almost ever slapping bass and with more rap elements... I can understand that for "metalheads" this is a lie... ---zagozagozago 16/6/06

No offense. Two bands having metal influences does not merit an entire genre. The article itself says that Funk Metal is based off of Alternative Rock approaches to song-writing, which itself should be enough to disqualify it from being a legitimate form of Metal. Camalus 03:53, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Camalus, there are more than two, and also Funk Metal is Funk+Alternative Metal. There are lots of bands that actually sound like metal and funk- it's not the same as Funk+Alt Rock. 17:30, 5 December 2020 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dark Lord Thomas Pie (talk • contribs)

Korn
Some of Korns songs was funk metal.


 * I haven't listened to them extensively, but I'd agree with that. They definitely sometimes have the funky bass and heavy guitar combo. They were mostly influenced by funk metal and, to a lesser extent, other forms of alternative metal, but they were the first nu metal band. Nu metal is their genre and that's what they should be classified as on Wikipedia.

Please erase this entry Funk Metal doesnt exist....why almost any other genre must be glued to the metal term?

a bit of musical culture
Excuse me, but what is the difference between funk metal and rapcore?

First off, there's usually no rapping in funk metal. It should be noted that many do not consider the singing style of RATM or RHCP to be rapping, though this is clearly up for debate. Second funk rythms tennd to be more pronounced and in every song in funk metal. However, I think its mostly a matter of opinion what groups go in where as neither genre has ever been popular enough to be well defined, at least to my knowledge. marnues 17:59, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, marnues. I, too, think that Anthony Kiedis' singing style in most of RHCP's earlier songs is quite hardly hip hop-connected. However, I remember that Zack De La Rocha said to be influenced by Public Enemy's Chuck D, as I read on the article about his previous band.

I personally would agree that de la Rocha raps and Kiedis does not. I've heard several people make the claim about both though so I went with that. marnues 18:51, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

If Kiedis not rap,what he do in song like fight like a brave,green heaven,good times boys,sex rap and others??i think that he was far from hip hop culture but it is a way to sing that i can classified with "rap", Kiedis say that he start to sing when he listen peoples like grandmasterflash or kurtis blow


 * I totally agree. Precsely, Kiedis is close to hip hop VOCALS, but far from hip hop CULTURE. He was a huge fan of Grandmaster Flash and Kurtis Blow, but he never dreamed to imitate their "poses". Egr, 3/7/2006
 * "I've got tapes, I've got CDs, I've got my Public Enemy" ("The Power of Equality")- Kiedis rapped. End of story. ~  Swi tch t 12:16, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

merging genres
Merging "funk metal" and thrash metal? Why not?

Because they're different.

Prince
I'm taking Prince off of this page, for reasons that I cited in much more detail on the Prince page. Essentially, Prince's music has both funk and bits of metal in it, but any of his songs with metal influences are almost uniformly more wide-ranging than being a simple mash-up of the two, and the metal influences even in his hardest-rocking music are very mild. I'll also just say that the term and style originated well after Purple Rain, which is probably his most rock and metal-influenced album as well as his most famous, therefore contradicting the "these artists help popularize the style..." part of this entry. Even on that album, there's little metal in the music aside from Prince's guitar solos. I agree with this guy. DavidJJJ 11:39, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Reference
Q used the term funk-metal as the genre of the early Red Hot Chili Peppers on page 51 of their August, 2006 edition. --Switch 06:20, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Removed deletion tag
here's why maxcap 19:34, 1 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Popular music website is often not a valid source on metal-related genres. As you can see, AMG also lists "Rap Metal" and "Punk Metal", two more non-existant genres. This should be deleted or used as a redirect for Funk. Same goes with Funk-rock, actually. Prolog 08:42, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
 * You can try AFD, but it was already once voted as keep. A merge with Funk rock is problably the best thing anyway Spearhead 13:21, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Yeah, a merger sounds fine to me. Prolog 14:16, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't get too worked up over the "metal" It's just a descriptor; the article doesn't claim it to be "true metal" or whatever. It's a fusion genre. I'm 50/50 on a merge, the funk-rock article is unsourced. At least this article has some sort of source. maxcap 12:43, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
 * As stated above, the article has already survived AFD. The term is in use by critics, as sourced by myself above - Q magazine is a very prominent source, and their use of the genre name guarantees notability in my opinion. Punk metal is a genre, known also as "crossover" and popular with punks and metalheads in the 80s, and with a wider audience in the early nineties. See Alternative metal, which I am sure you will also claim does not exist. Rap metal is arguable, but is used by media, fans and critics so widely it has become a term for bands that play vaguely metal-influenced music and rap vocals - ranging from Anthrax to Limp Bizkit. I also am 50-50 on a merge; funk metal is at least sourced somewhat, but I am sure I have heard the term funk-rock used. --Switch 04:11, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Do not merge
Funk Metal IS a distinct genre, but possibly more perceptible to metal fans than funk fans. Basically, funk metal essentially contains a "screaming guitar" element absent from funk rock. A typical funk rock song is the Deep Purple (mk4) song GETTING TIGHTER, where there is a prevalent rock guitar, but not metal. On the other hand GIVE IT AWAY by the Red Hot Chili Peppers clearly has that highly amplified aggressive riffing associated with metal. It would be unwise to confuse the two and would mislead the musical historians of the future. Headshaker 21:02, 22 August 2006 (UTC)


 * There is nothing metal about RHCP at all. They are a simple rock band. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.153.143.33 (talk) 13:09, 7 December 2006 (UTC).
 * Yeah, all those heavy metal solos, guitar distortion, and references to 80s metal bands aren't metal at all. ~  Swi tch t 12:14, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Funk rock bands should be removed
If funk rock and funk metal should be two separate pages, I think it is important that this page contains only funk metal bands. Audioslave's page only says funk rock, so in the interest of consistency, I removed them. Bshbass 20:50, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

I noticed that a real article of Mordred(the band) does not excist and the link here leads to the article of the mythological figure.

MarkkuPr

Merging
I think Funk-rock and Funkcore should be merged into this section. They both are crappy unsourced articles, and basically list all of the same bands as this one. Anyone have any opinions on that? Also, what's the difference between this and nu-metal? It's like a precursor or something? Kgppra17 22:37, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

I disagree when you say that the funkcore and funk rock articles are "crappy", but I would agree w/ a merger. But merge this and funkcore into funk rock instead, and then add a section in funk rock describing funk metal and funkcore as stylistic differences. Thats just my opinion, though.

P.S. Funk metal is very different from nu metal. Funk metal is just that: funk + metal. To me, nu metal is a combination of groove metal (downtuned syncopated riffs, similar lyrical themes) and funk metal (slap bass, alternative rock approach to songwriting), sometimes with hip-hop influences (rapping, turntables). Prepare to be Mezmerized! :D 01:08, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Why were my sources removed?
I used sources from Allmusic, Rolling Stone, and Rhapsody. I know for a fact that Rolling Stone and Allmusic have both been used as references on this site. Why was everything I did removed? 19:44, 27 August 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rockgenre (talk • contribs)
 * Don't use reviews as sources for a genre page; they are citable for their critical commentary, not anything else 9as they are ultimately opinion pieces). Use histories and news sources. Reviews should only be used in conjunction with the music they are referring to. WesleyDodds (talk) 09:54, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
 * That was an old comment of mine Wesley. Album reviews are used all over wikipedia. Take the heavy metal article for instance. They use an old RS review for a Jane's Addicition album saying they were, "the true heir to Led Zeppelin". Album reviews are reliable sources. Rockgenre (talk) 20:19, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Album reviews are reliable sources when used properly. They aren't being used so here. You're not providing anything substantive about the genre's history or development; all you're doing is making a list of bands called funk metal by one person or another. Additionally, I removed the sentence "The song, "Trampled Under Foot" by pioneering heavy metal band, Led Zeppelin, has been cited as one of the earliest examples of this genre" because the quote you included does not actually say that. All it does it describe "Trampled Underfoot" as funk metal. You are extrapolating and performing original research by writing that it "has been cited as one of the earliest examples of this genre". Because the source quoted doesn't say so. WesleyDodds (talk) 10:10, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
 * If we say it is an early example of funk metal(which is a form of funk as well as metal) its not original research. Its release date proves it's an early example because it came before Faith No More, Living Colour, etc. If we call Green River an early example of grunge its true because they were one of the examples to release songs in that style. "You're not providing anything substantive about the genre's history or development" that's an opinion and its meaningless here. Wikipedia is not based on opinion, its based on source. Your opinion on album reviews makes no sense. So its fine to use an album review from Rolling Stone on a genre article, but not on another in your mind? That's like when Libs and his puppets kept rejecting allmusic despite the fact that its a reilable source. Total nonsense(I'm sorry if this is coming off rude, I'm trying not to be). Rockgenre (talk) 01:46, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
 * "If we say it is an early example of funk metal(which is a form of funk as well as metal) its not original research. Its release date proves it's an early example because it came before Faith No More, Living Colour, etc". Yes, it is original research. You're jumping to a conclusion and you're misrepresenting the sentence you are citing. WesleyDodds (talk) 09:07, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
 * No it's not original research. If we were to put this article in chronological order the song would be our example that dates back the most. Hence, it's early. Calling it the first funk metal would be original resource. And your album review opinions are just that opinions. And since RS stated LC as a pioneer of this style that makes them part of "the genre's history or development". And if funk rock counts as a form of funk and rock than obviously funk metal counts as a form of metal and funk. You don't have much of an argument. Rockgenre (talk) 23:17, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
 * "If we were to put this article in chronological order the song would be our example that dates back the most. Hence, it's early." No, this line of reasoning is still original research. You're observing two sources, one primary (the song and its release date) and one secondary (the quote calling it "funk metal") and then drawing a conclusion that neither of them state. See No original research. If you found a source that outright says "'Trampled Underfoot' is one of the earliest examples of funk metal", then you would have something. But this source doesn't say that. Stick to what the sources say, and that'll make things way easier and less contestable. WesleyDodds (talk) 14:00, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I know original research is not allowed Wesley, but this isn't original research. Its release date confirms it. And I'm adding the album reviews and the funk template back. Rockgenre (talk) 21:36, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, it's original research because you are drawing a conclusion not explicitly stated by the source. It would be different if what you want to include was explicitly stated by the source. WesleyDodds (talk) 06:09, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm not even using the words "early" or "first", despite the fact that its release date confirms that it is early. It's the oldest example we have of funk metal, for that it has to be in the article. Rockgenre (talk) 22:28, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

"Trampled Underfoot"
Shouldn't the song be mentioned in the article? Even if we have no sources calling it the first funk metal song or an early song in the style's history, we do have a legit source identifying it as a funk metal song. Allmusic clearly states that they believe the style coming into exististence in the 1980s. I think we could at least say something like, "Though predating the '80s, funk metal movement was Led Zeppelin's song "Trampled Underfoot" which has also been cited as a funk metal song." Opinions anyone? Rockgenre (talk) 02:11, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

Removing Primus due to thin sourcing
None of the reliable sources listed for Primus on this page reference the group as "Funk Metal," which isn't the primary classification given to them. The only source provided on this page is from ram.org, the personal blog of Ram Samudrala, a computational biologist. The AllMusic.com link provided does not even have a genre listing for funk metal.

While there may be certain Funk metal influences, the majority of reputable secondary sources list Primus in a category of its own, or a category such as alternative rock, alternative metal, and experimental rock. Others use the word "funky" but "funk metal" is seldom used.

See these sources for verification:
 * http://www.reviewjournal.com/entertainment/music/genre-straddling-primus-will-deliver-wackily-warped-whimsy
 * http://www.avclub.com/article/primus-les-claypool-62580
 * https://www.hardrockhotel.com/las-vegas-events/entertainment/primus-and-the-chocolate-factory-with-the-fungi-ensemble-with-special-guest-clutch-the-joint-september-5-8-00-p-m-all-ages/1714
 * http://www.dailyfreeman.com/general-news/20130602/mountain-jam-music-festival-kicks-off-thursday
 * http://www.times-standard.com/general-news/20110322/festival-roundup-a-guide-to-some-forthcoming-band-gatherings
 * http://www.soundspike.com/story/4639/primus-unleashes-plans-for-first-ever-3-d-tour/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by BurritoSlayer (talk • contribs) 16:52, 17 August 2015 (UTC)


 * I wonder who sent you here; you appear to be looking for reasons to deny a genre rather than looking at the literature to see what it actually says. Primus has been widely described as funk metal, and there are tons of sources to confirm it. Binksternet (talk) 18:52, 17 August 2015 (UTC)
 * It's impossible to take you seriously when you question the quality of sources here but then add "psychedelic viking music" based on nothing but a sound file. Binksternet (talk) 19:11, 17 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Based on the discussion here, my concerns were not satisfied. I am reverting this article to the version without faulty sources implicating Primus. BurritoSlayer (talk) 21:14, 17 August 2015 (UTC)

Other topics: Glam-metal
Within the article, in the section "Characteristics and origins", the following (sourced) statement is contained: Certain bands not from a punk/alternative background, such as glam metal groups Bang Tango and Extreme, have also frequently incorporated funk into their musical style. The implication of the above recitation is that a number of bands of the "funk-metal" aggregate had their roots in glam-metal. Consequently, my proposal is that "glam-metal" be added to the articles found in the "infobox" under "Other topics". I made my proposed changed at an earlier date, after which it was reversed -- citing Original Research as the reason for reversal; my edits did not come under this definition for the inclusion was warranted by sourced information within the article. Original research, would be to aggregate two otherwise unconnected items of information, in order to draw an inference neither stated or implied by either source. I am willing to discuss this change, but unless a further objection is mounted, I will move forward with my proposal. Thanks, --JoeyofScotia (talk) 18:03, 15 December 2019 (UTC)