Talk:Fustuarium

Punishment for Homosexuality?
I recently read a fictional but generally accurate and well-researched novel about the lives of Roman soldiers that mentions this in passing, saying that it is the prescribed punishment for continuing to commit homosexual acts "after attaining full manhood". Is there any historical evidence to support this claim? Would the penalty be for any homosexual sex act or just those that took place between two soldiers? If this is in fact historically legitimate, I think it would make an interesting addition, especially considering the atavistic nature of the punishment and the current pop-culture view of Romans as being tolerant of a wide range of sexual preferences — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.142.167.27 (talk) 15:39, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your comment. I've spent some time puzzling over this question and have meant to return to it, as I think an earlier version of the article may have implied that punishing homosexuality was the primary purpose of the fustuarium. The relevant phrase in Polybius in the Loeb translation is young men who have abused their persons (see link to the passage in footnote 1). In some periods, this wording in English implies masturbation, but it seems to refer to young men who willingly allowed themselves to be penetrated by another man. See Sexuality in ancient Rome and Homosexuality in ancient Rome. I'll try to fix this. Cynwolfe (talk) 18:29, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

Undue focus on homosexuality?
A predominant portion of this article discusses homosexuality in the Roman army. While fustuarium may have been used as punishment for that, I question whether this article is the right place for the discussion of homosexuality itself. Another article on the topic already exists. I have not seen the external references. Even if they give the information that is attributed to them, which I don't doubt, I think a case would still need to be made for the imbalance in discussion between homosexuality and, say, abandoning a post. Taquito1 (talk) 01:09, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

I am sensitive to the possibility that some may disagree with the edits I am about to make. I welcome discussion here, but I do not think it necessary to wait for discussion. I will make the edits in several steps, each as standalone as I can manage. If there is controversy, we can discuss them as several almost independent edits. Taquito1 (talk) 01:40, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

I removed the parts I judged to more properly belong in another article. There is more problematic material, which is more difficult. One problem: my translation of Polybius does not say what this article says ... but it might be just a difference in translations. Also, the Pat Southern reference mentions fustuarium being used as punishment for homosexuality, but TOTALLY DOES NOT SUPPORT the statement it is being used as a reference for... not even slightly. That has to go. Taquito1 (talk) 02:12, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

I went to the original Greek version of Polybius, and checked the various translations. I am comfortable with what the article says now..."who abuse themselves" or whatever. It most definitely does not translate as "submit to penetration", etc. Taquito1 (talk) 04:19, 24 February 2021 (UTC)