Talk:Future and Freedom

Article's intro
Recently User:Bastin did this edit with the following edit summary: 'Long been' is wrong, since they merged last year; Pre-1995 credentials less important than his ideology now, which spurred split; most of GI weren't in politics in 1995, so not 'MSI stalwarts'. I respect any opinion and especially those of a great editor such as Bastin, but I am afraid that he's not an expert of Italian politics. Before editing the article again, I would like to point out some issues.
 * 1) Fini has been a critic of Berlusconi at least since 2004 (when he forced Berlusconi to dismiss Tremonti from economy minister and appoint himself at the foreign ministry), but the two had severe disagreements many times before and especially in 1996 and 1999 (in both cases Fini tried to take the helm of leader of the centre-right at Berlusconi's expense, without succeding).
 * 2) Both Berlusconi and Fini are liberal conservatives and modernizers, despite what their respective detractors say. Of course Berlusconi supporters portray Mr Fini as an old-fashioned reactionary, while Fini supporters describe Mr Berlusconi as an old-fashioned populist out of touch with the country, but that's another story... bashing is quintessentially politics! Anyway, it is correct to characterize Mr Fini as a liberal conservative, but he is primarily a national conservative, despite his liberal stances on immigration, stem-cell research, civil unions, etc.
 * 3) There are many reasons why Fini and FLI split from the PdL, but wiretapping is the most important among them. Since their relationship had become very tense, Fini started to criticize Berlusconi on just everything and wiretapping was just one of the issues on which Fini openly disagreed with Berlusconi. Moreover it is a little bit curious to classify the government's wiretap proposals as authoritarian: how can be authoritarian a bill that restricts the use of wiretapping by police authorities? I don't think that adjective is appropriate in this context.
 * 4) A large majority of GI/FLI members were in politics before 1995 and were, of course, members of the MSI. Later, they were on the right of the PdL. Indeed only a handful of centrists hailing from Berlusconi's Forza Italia (Della Vedova, Moroni and Rosso, plus Catone) followed Fini into FLI as virtually all of the party's Christian democrats, liberals and social democrats remained loyal to Berlusconi instead.
 * 5) FLI is definitely a centre-right party, but most of its members (notably including Fini, who recently expoused the values of the right during Vieni via con me, a TV show) identify themeselves with the "right-wing", most of them being formerly members of the MSI.
 * --Checco (talk) 19:35, 22 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Once again (see this and this edit) it appears to me that Bastin is not an expert of Italian politics and I'm sorry that he's not able to contain his ego (see User:Bastin, which I appreciate much because we have many points of contact!) even when talking about issues he does not know very well. Fini is definitely a liberal conservative, but in fact all is former party, The People of Freedom (PdL), is such. The PdL may be, as The Economist puts it, "noticeably short of a cohesive ideology—a gap Mr Fini appears bent on filling with what Mr Campi calls a "right built on European lines"", but note that Campi has been a supporter of Fini so he's not exactly a third-party source. Moreover, being short of a cohesive ideology does not mean that the party is not liberal conservative. The PdL is member of the EPP and is the classical liberal conservative party. It would not be correct to let readers think that Fini left the PdL because that was not liberal conservative enough, in fact his new party, the FLI, is far less liberal conservative and ideologically cohesive that the PdL is. If you like The Economist, look at this:
 * "Mr Fini, a one-time neo-fascist who has gradually been shifting leftward ever since the mid-1990s, argues for a more modern, tolerant and less autocratic form of conservatism than that represented by the 74-year-old media mogul. Few doubt his sincerity. But his fledgling party, Future and Freedom for Italy (FLI), has perhaps the oddest pedigree of any progressive group on the European right. Salvatore Merlo, author of a study of Mr Fini’s transformation*, writes that “though Fini would never admit it…many of the positions adopted by him today derive from a certain thread in fascist culture.” Many of Mr Fini’s fellow-rebels originated in the social wing of neo-fascism, whose anti-capitalist adherents embraced such ideas as feminism and environmentalism as long ago as the 1970s. Some once looked to the controversial Pino Rauti, who split from Mr Fini in 1995 in protest over his growing moderation. Still active at the age of 84, the former leader of Ordine Nuovo was acquitted only last month of involvement in a 1974 terrorist bombing."
 * Italian politics is far more complicate than it seems. Fini definitely holds some socially liberal positions and has taken a long journey from his former post-fascist past, but FLI is not necessarily a true liberal conservative party, as it includes both liberal and reactionary forces. On the economy Fini himself is not very liberal. The article should be balanced and explain all those things, starting from the intro. I will edit the article so that the intro may be acceptable to both of us. As it is now, one may think that Fini is a liberal conservative and the PdL not, which is not correct. I'm not making any point and, as I believe Bastin, whose good faith is unquestionable, is not making a point either, I'm sure we will be able to agree. --Checco (talk) 13:25, 10 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Dear Bastin, I thank you so much for your willingness to compromise. We can cooperate very well in the future if we avoid total rollbacks and try to find a common ground. Just one more thing. I saw you added Il Secolo d'Italia in the infobobox. It is true that the newspaper (whose correct title is Secolo d'Italia) has supported the party so far, but it is not the official party's newspaper. In fact the newspaper is owned by the Fondazione Alleanza Nazionale, which administers the assets of the former party and whose affiliates are in majority PdL members. The newspaper is not the official newspaper of FLI and soon it won't support the party anymore, as the foundation has recently appointed a new editorial board, which will conceivably appoint a more neutral – and more pro-Berlusconi – editor. I don't know if you are able to read Italian, but here you can find the most recent news on the newspaper. --Checco (talk) 22:49, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

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