Talk:Gérald Genta/Archives/2014

Untitled
Sources for Gerald Genta's Death
 * 1) http://www.hodinkee.com/blog/2011/8/17/breaking-news-gerald-genta-legendary-timepiece-designer-has.html
 * 2) http://ap.watchprosite.com/show-forumpost/fi-3/pi-4818863/ti-732408/s-0/
 * 3) http://www.watchshop.com/watchnews/Renowned-watchmaker-dies$800703145.html
 * 4) http://thewatchery.blogspot.com/2011/08/rest-in-peace-gerald-genta.html
 * 5) http://blog.watchuseek.com/2011/08/worlds-first-watch-designer-gerald.html
 * 6) http://watchfreeks.com/view_topic.php?id=20312&forum_id=37&jump_to=254489
 * 7) http://forum.watchtime.ch/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=52577
 * 8) http://www.luxois.com/article/2011/08/18/gerald-genta-the-genius-of-watch-design-died-yesterday-at-age-80
 * 9) ...  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.180.255.110 (talk) 08:10, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
 * All of the above sources are blogs or messageboards. While I won't deny (as of now) that the above could be true, vague death reports often start on messageboards, and from there, the information just repeats and repeats itself - therefore not a reliable source of information. Genta is a prominent figure in the haute fashion world, therefore it would seem unusual (as of now) that Genta's personal site, Bulgari or LVMH (Bulgari's new holding company and the largest luxury goods company in the world) hasn't released a report on his passing. Until more official info is available proving that the death report is true, this topic should be left out. --Danteferno (talk) 19:07, 20 August 2011 (UTC)




 * Hello


 * The designer Gerald Genta sold the brand Gerald Genta in 1998. Since then he has nothing more to do with the brand. The person Gerald Genta was never employee of LVMH, nor involved in the company. Neither Bulgari nor LVMH are his personal sites. LVMH will not announce the death of an external.


 * His site is http://www.geraldcharles.com/artist/, and this company is so small, i don't wonder, that they haven't updated their site until now. They are no computer age company, this site is made by an external web design company for them and this company won't change anything without an order to do so.


 * Sorry, i'm no computer generation man too, so i type my input to this discussion as good as i can.


 * ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.159.40.95 (talk) 20:01, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Although he sold his first brand and was never an employee with either company, they were still his designs. The same would apply to a musician who switched record companies or transferred all royalties to another person/enterprise. This is someone who has been in the horological jewelry business for almost 60 years, custom designing watches for many VIPs/celebrities. I'm sure in time, if his death is true, a reliable publication will announce it. But as it stands now there are no reliable sources. --Danteferno (talk) 02:37, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

I just declined a WP:RFPP request to protect the article. I understand why everyone is attempting to add the information, and I do believe the gentleman has passed. However, I think Danteferno is correct, this fact has not yet been reported by a reliable source which in this case means an organization with a reputation for fact checking. Notice that the sources listed up until now all say "sources confirm" without describing exactly where the information came from. Until a credible source with a name attached to it emerges, we should be reluctant to report his death. I expect that there will be biography style eulogies soon enough if the information is true. Xymmax So let it be written   So let it be done  16:51, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Of course we want to make sure this information is properly verified, but there are so many borderline sources that say he is dead. For instance this translation of a French watch website, this  from another watch website in the UK. Not as good as a newspaper, but not as bad as a blog or forum post. Beeblebrox (talk) 16:53, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Actually here is another translation of a  report from a French magazine la revue des montres, or "The Review of Watches." Trade publications are usually considered a WP:RS for verification purposes. Beeblebrox (talk) 16:59, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I've asked at WP:RSN about this . Beeblebrox (talk) 17:36, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
 * That sounds reasonable. My issue is still that this information has no point of origin that I can discern. Who released this news? How was it confirmed? And for that matter, when exactly did he die? Again, I believe that he has passed, but based on my brief searching, Wikipedia maintains the most complete biography of this gentleman online, and there's no need to rush this information without strong sourcing. Xymmax So let it be written   So let it be done  17:40, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I've added that ref with the qualifier "it was reported." If anyone can think of a better way to phrase it be my guest. Beeblebrox (talk) 16:57, 23 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I made a one-time only revert. If you or anyone else wants to re-add, I won't revert again and won't consider it edit warring. My problem is that this gentleman was (is?) not obscure. Do a search on his name site limited to nytimes.com - there's a dozen hits, some from earlier this year. Other sites that cover high fashion yield similar results. It just doesn't make sense that a mainstream reliable source has confirmed his death. I still haven't seen a listing that cites to a first-hand account or government official or named company representative - all of this seems too vague for a person of this level. And, others have noticed the strange lack of mainstream attention. I just have to believe that if this is true, there will be confirmation forthcoming within a few more days. In the interim, there just is no rush. Xymmax So let it be written   So let it be done  01:13, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't believe there was any rush. I thought between you saying it was reasonable above and no further objections here at RSN over the last two days we had something resembling a consensus to include this... Beeblebrox (talk) 01:47, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I still think this article should receive a semi-protect. The editors that keep insisting he died (primarily anons/auto-confirms) don't seem engaged in using the talk page for discussion and are also not responding to messages left on their talk pages. This falls as an editing dispute, if anything. --Danteferno (talk) 11:55, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I engaged on the talk page, found what seemed to be a reliable source, asked at the reliable sources noticeboard, discussed it here, waited two days, and still got reverted. You guys are setting the bar a bit high for including what seems to be a properly verified fact, but apparently the two of you have decided nothing short of the NY Times can be used to verify it. Beeblebrox (talk) 15:24, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I was referring to the anons/autoconfirms per the edit history. Thanks, --Danteferno (talk) 21:58, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

I get that, but they would't need to keep trying it if you guys had let my edit stand. By acknowledging that this is acontent dispute and not vandalism, you have actually defeated your own argument, as semi-protection would give you an automatic advantage in said dispute. Beeblebrox (talk) 00:52, 25 August 2011 (UTC)


 * And I've just found this here's a machine translation. Fellow watch designer Audemars Piguet issued a public statement that "the world of watchmaking has lost one of its greatest creators, Gérald Genta." Is that going to be enough or would you like us to find his corpse and get a picture of it? Beeblebrox (talk) 03:58, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I'll buy off on this one. This at least is a person (or in this case a company) in a position to know making a positive statement and attaching his name to it. Along with the other unrebutted comments I'll agree that the edit can go in. Xymmax So let it be written   So let it be done  06:15, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Hello again

Mike Disher from Watchtime Magazin, United States, confirmed the death of Gerald Genta:

http://www.watchtime.com/2011/08/gerald-genta-has-died-at-age-80/

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.192.2.5 (talk) 10:26, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I see that while I dropped my objection a few days ago, no one has changed the page. I found an English version of the Audemars Piguet tribute; I'm reverting back to Beeblebrox's edit and citing with the AP page. Xymmax So let it be written   So let it be done  04:03, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

Proposed removal of redundant publisher information
A number of citations in this article unnecessarily include the publisher for periodicals and websites that have their own Wikipedia article. This information has no value to anyone wanting to check or track down references. For example, publisher=Washington Post Company for references to The Washington Post, or publisher=IMDB for references to Box Office Mojo, only make the article longer - significantly longer when repeated many times - without adding anything useful. Therefore I plan to upgrade the article's citations to remove all such redundant publisher info, bringing them into line with the recommended use of the cite template (see Template:Citation). Please raise any questions here or on my talk page. Colonies Chris (talk) 21:43, 16 November 2012 (UTC)