Talk:Günter Kießling

Supposed controversy
The article states that "Kießling again achieved public prominence in 1997 when he spoke at the funeral of Joseph W. Rettemeier, a highly decorated World War II soldier, one of the few soldiers to be awarded the Ritterkreuz mit Eichenlaub. This was controversial because of the nature of the regime under which Rettemeier had served."

No basis is given for the latter statement. The corresponding German Wikipedia article, cited as a source, merely states that Kießling reentered the public spotlight by giving the eulogy at Rettemeier's funeral. It is somewhat odd to assert that there would be a controversy over this, given that Rettemeier was not merely "a highly decorated World War II soldier", but also a retired colonel of the West German Army. He commanded a Panzer battalion and a Panzer brigade, and was deputy commander of a Panzer division and a Panzergrenadier division. And Rettemeier was one of over 700 Knight's Cross (Ritterkreuz) winners to serve in the West German Army, so being a highly decorated veteran of the Nazi-era Wehrmacht was not in itself considered controversial.

Unless some other source is cited, I intend to remove the references to any controversy.

Airbornelawyer 04:19, 6 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I have deleted the reference to controversy, because I think it could be misconstrued (and was based partly on my memory of the fuss at the time). I had added it in order to explain to an English-speaking audience (who may, indeed, find it odd that there was such a fuss about it) why it should lead to public prominence. At the time, the reasons for the media attention were obvious, and the noteworthiness of a German general delivering a eulogy mentioning decorations awarded under the Nazi regime was obvious to a German readership. Kießling himself referred indirectly to such German attitudes, as quoted/paraphrased at the source I have now added:
 * The Bundeswehr recently attracted severe criticism for agreeing to play host to a gathering of Knight's Cross veterans. Gen Kiessling, himself a war veteran and subsequently one of the Bundeswehr's most distinguished officers, lambasted the "unbearable arrogance and stupidity" of those who refused to honour military valour shown in any war of which they disapproved. "No other nation apart from us Germans would even dream of reviling its sons in this way," he said, arguing that if wars of the past were to be judged by today's standards, hardly any would be justified and "we would have to say goodbye to history".
 * I think Kießling's statements indicate that it was controversial. Most German military people and politicians still tread extremely warily when honouring military valour in connection with World War II; in my experience, any forthright statement is always controversial. --Boson 13:37, 6 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Now those remarks would be controversial. Kießling first says that Germany should honor its sons notwithstanding the cause they fought for, because the actions of the Nazis or the justness of the war on the whole doesn't affect the valor of those who fought. But the argument "if wars of the past were to be judged by today's standards, hardly any would be justified" goes much further.  It seems to be arguing for the justness of the war itself, in the context of its times.  To be fair, this is not a direct quote in the quote you provide, so the reporter may have paraphrased and mischaracterized Kießling's argument.


 * Bundeswehr controversies over its predecessors are not uncommon. The German liaison officer at Fort Benning during one of my tours there had pictures of Wehrmacht generals Guderian, Rommel and Hube on his wall; his successor quickly removed them.  There was the naming controversy over German Navy frigates; the recent dustup over vehicle insignia considered reminiscent of the Afrikakorps; etc.  For a pre-Wehrmacht controversy, there was the one over a Bundeswehr honor guard which accompanied Frederick the Great's remains when they were moved from Hohenzollern back to Potsdam after the reunification of East and West Germany. Airbornelawyer 21:03, 6 January 2007 (UTC)


 * This alleged "contoversy" took place only in the germanophobic British yellow press and nowhere else. No one in Germany could have cared less about what some old man said at the funeral of a former Nazi officer, especially as both of them were totally unknown to everybody born after 1945. Wake up, you ignorant Anglo-Saxons, it's 2010 and not 1910. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.246.250.97 (talk) 19:07, 4 March 2011 (UTC)