Talk:GPS tracking unit/Archive 1

First draft
(Remark: The following skeletal draught article reflects my personal degree of knowledge of this side of the GPS tracking issue. It is very hard to obtain information on advanced and sensitive 'weaponry' like this over here. Those interested in continuing my work, feel free to perform your own investigations over there. A good starter could be to enter 'gps sms tracking' with Google and go from there. See e g http://www.trackingtheworld.com/wtsms.htm . Another option which I strongly suggest would be to work this article out in cooperation with authors from your 'GSM', 'state surveillance', 'civil liberties' etc 'departments'.)

Like all tools, GPS tracking devices can be used to serve people, like finding their dog gone astray or keeping an eye on their kids. In the wrong hands, however, they can turn into a mighty weapon against people and their fundamental rights - rights one thought were inalienable. Especially dangerous is that version of GPS trackers that incorporates another module taking advantage of a feature offered through digital cellphone systems like GSM, and that is SMS - short message service, also known as text messaging. This type of tracker thus combines the capability of determining one's positon through GPS with GSM's capability to send the coordinates through its SMS service.

GPS is global, and GSM - a terrestrial system - is used in 220 countries of the globe, including the USA and Canada *). Whereever there is GSM radio coverage, they will therefore be fully functional, provided they are quad-band (working on all four frequency bands that GSM uses throughout the world).

SMS is not only offered through GSM but also competing standards. So also in those parts of the world where GSM would not appear as prime choice, it can be expected that such bugs are being used.

If someone hides such a bug somewhere at another person's car - they are very small nowadays **) and can be placed almost anywhere, also under the car -, those in control of this device can determine the target person's location (i e that of its car) at any time and even map it automatically. If they perform this job long enough, they will dispose of a typical pattern of movements. As if this was not intrusion enough in a person's private life, the insight gained thereby easily opens a pandora box of further abuse potential.

Also, helicopters equipped with the necessary reception and mapping equipment can easily find bugged cars and their drivers - thus also if they are not stolen, just pursued. This is being mentioned because experience over here has shown that this a favourite way of procedure followed by at least the police, secret services and other government agencies.

In theory, these bugs may be used by state agencies only in a very few number of servere cases. In practise, however, there is ample evidence to that they are widely abused by the police, secret services and even private investigators, who do not care about legal limitations but follow their own agendas. They apparently do not fear the courts, either because they are sure that they will outsmart them, or because they suspect judges to tacitly sympathize with them. It all looks as if the balance of power as we have known it no longer exists.

While the industry so far has been quick to offer counter-weapons to citizens plagued by state-sponsored intrusion (maybe not the best example, but think of speed radar which was followed by radar warners), it seems it has missed out so far on this opportunity to earn an extra income by helping people to draw level with this kind of weaponry. Possible basic layouts of such appliances can be described in a few words:

1 Version for those believing in a properly working legal system:

A short-range SMS receiver would store all the short messages received. Connected to a computer, the logs could be printed out and sent to the state attorney, asking to open an investigation against the owner of the number who receives the stealth position messages.

2 Version for those NOT believing in a properly working legal system:

A jammer that disturbs at close range the GPS frequencies as well as the GSM frequencies. Limiting oneself to the GPS leg would probably not be sufficient, as there is something in GSM called 'silent SMS messages': They can be provoked by the system to make one's cellphone react, without the user being aware of it. From the answer, the phone's location becomes visible. Imagine this were done on behalf of the police, and the result is clear. A bonus function would be a mechanism that would allow to find the device.

http://www.gsmworld.com/roaming/gsminfo/index.shtml http://www.coveragemaps.com/gsmposter.htm
 * ) cf

millimetres thick
 * ) according to my knowledge about one centimetre squared and one or two

Michael Laudahn

http://worldimprover.net/EN/en8.html

Thanks for the article - but
Would the editors - 'Agent X2' and 'Dual Freq' get in touch with me, for some further discussion? The first one is 'terra incognita' for Wikipedia, the second doesn't indicate a contact address.

After reading, I would have two more concerns.

First, Dual Freq says, 'Wikified article. Somebody needs to balance this article. It's a bit on the paranoid side right now. Add more practical/helpful trackers'. Let me make it short: This is nonsense. He simply doesn't know what he's talking about. Everyone who has had such a thing in his car and experienced the consequences knows that this is nothing less than the plain truth. What has the plain truth to do with psychoctic terms? Kindly remove it from that watch list again. Society has made people to react like that, in situations like this one. An intelligent individual ought to be aware of that and control himself when an urge like this comes up.

Second, do you have any idea what strategy to follow to draw minor yet suitable companies' attention to the 'Countermeasures against GPS trackers' chapter? The article is quite alright so far, but we also need the right people to see it, for the appropriate conclusions to be drawn.

Michael Laudahn

This article needs references
I've reworded a few sentences and shortened the artcle a little, but it still includes a lot of statements that need references. Many of the statments are not verifiable in their current form. I added fact tags to a couple of real obvious ones, and erased a couple of sentences to try to balance the POV a little better. It still needs work. Additional description of other common uses might be helpful. -- Michaelfavor 17:28, 18 February 2006 (UTC)


 * The factual allegations are based on my years-long personal experience in Switzerland and other european countries. If you experience again and again that you - sitting in your parked car somewehere in the landscape reading the newspaper (and with your cellphone switched off) - are getting 'visited' by low- and deep-flying helicopters who fly directly towards you and then hover over you or circle you, for a couple of minutes, and not one or ten times, but in the course of the years more than a hundred times, then there is little doubt: 1 They do mean you; 2 Your car must be target-marked. And that is usually done via GPS/SMS bugs, to my knowledge, at least if you belong to those who leave their cellphone usually off.


 * My car is equipped with a digital video camera, cf photos at (a piece of film sample is also available), but it was actually installed as a proof-securing system for cases where one might become involved in an accident. Still I have thought of adapting it to the needs for also recording 'visiting helicopters'. This would require more investment, though, as the components of the system do not interact perfectly at this stage for purposes other than the original one (potential accident evidence-securing).  -- Michael Laudahn 18:13, 18 February 2006 (UTC)


 * PS 'black helicopters': The ones used over here were such with the police's colour scheme and a decal saying so, others came in military-style camouflage colours, and last not least there were also colourful civilian-type ones. Apart from their target-finding system, they apparently have video cameras making footage of you, and all controlled by the pilot. In Portugal, a less well-off country in Europe, they were less well-equipped: I remember one such incident about a year ago when I was parking on a public lot in the border town of Vila Real de Santo Antonio, vis-a-vis its spanish equivalent Ayamonte - where the Guadiana river flows into the sea. After having found me and hovering above me at a height of some 30 m / 100 ft, the co-pilot's window opened, and out bowed a man with a video camera in his hand aiming at me.


 * I have never heard about any laws passed that allowed the police and other state forces to use flying machines against single and unarmed persons - at least in peace times. I've asked many people I know, and none of them knew anything either. In a few incidents, I did have eye witnesses, and they could't believe their eyes. Try to get an answer from politics or media on this subject, and you will most probably fail - at least over here. If you get an answer, the usual Pawlow-type reaction is: 'schizophrenia, paranoia, persecution mania' - you name it. Of course, politicians were 'smart' (?) enough to prepare the laws necessary for involuntary commitment on time, so anyone continuing such allegations can be dealt with the constitutional way. Interestingly enough, not so seldom these politicians were the same who only 15 or 20 years ago continued to blame the then Soviet Union for its human-rights violating compulsive psychiatrization system... -- Michael Laudahn 18:58, 18 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Wikipedia articles must be verifiable. You could help to improve the article by providing pointers to additional evidence.  It is an important principle of Wikipedia that personal experiences have to be supported by reliable sources.   -- Michaelfavor 19:28, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

I've added a link to a GPS tracking collar for wildlife management. They are used in Finland to track wolves, in Sweden to track bears and in Africa to track elephants. From the site, it looks like there is a battery life issue with these small devices. That could be a very big limiting factor for human surveillance. I'd also like to point out that tens of thousands of people in the US have GPS trackers installed in their cars from the factory. It's called OnStar and people even pay for the continued use of this device in their car. People also pay to put other GPS trackers in their own car to monitor the car usage of their teenage children. I don't deny the potential for misuse is great, but there are beneficial uses. As for countermeasures, the folks in the helicopters are probably from EUROCONTROL or the European Aviation Safety Agency looking for the person who wants to jam GPS and potentially disrupt safe navigation of aircraft in line of sight of the jammer. --Dual Freq 19:36, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

My short answer to you (after years of practical experience, and not exactly a 'dummy' myself) is this: Those who own a weapon (in this case, GPS/SMS bugs) will most probably (ab-)use it. Particularly if they can expect to remain unpunished. Just think of all kinds of secret services, but they're certainly not the only ones. The political-juridical complex at least in many countries over here is so corrupt by now that you wonder what keeps them from acting openly totalitarian? Among a number of motives, probably because the stealth-totalitarian method is more effective: It yields about the same governing effect, and they can still contend to be 'democratic' and 'constitutional'. Practical side-effect: This then means also that any dissidents must be insane and can be dealt with accordingly.

Michael Laudahn 20:13, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

PS: On second thoughts, it appears to me you haven't been confronted with this weapon so far. This doesn't necessarily mean that it weren't applied also in your part of the world, unless I'm mistaken. On the contrary, your LEC etc will know it, and they may expect a better chance to get away with its use, just because it is so unknown. So, next to the links pointing at existing products of this range, the following link 'officially' discussing this issue - police use of GPS/SMS bugs against what they consider are suspected criminals and a subsequent court ruling - might help. It is in 'Prawda german' (some between-the-lines reading necessary), and so I shall try to translate it:

http://www.golem.de/0504/37441.html

Date: 2005-04-12

'Decision: police surveillance through GPS legal

Constitutional complaint dismissed by second senate (of the constitutional court, ML)

The federal constitutional court has on principle agreed on police-led surveillance action through GPS. Though the judges ask the legislators and the investigative agencies for securing measures vis-a-vis IT developments (whatever this somewhat blurry-cryptic sentence may mean - ML), the court's second senate dismissed a constitutional complaint of a member of the 'anti-imperialistic cells' who had been condemned to thirteen years of prison for quadruple attempted homicide and four assaults using explosives.

The complainant had objected against the police surveillance using GPS during their investigations, as well as against the use of the insight won through this measure. A GPS receiver with transmitter (presumably SMS - ML) had been mounted in the suspect's car, thereby determining his location close to 50 m. This happened after the suspect and a co-defendant of his earlier had twice detected tracking devices in their car and disarmed them (probably an older, more conspicuous generation, the new ones can normally not be found - ML). Through analyzation of the car's position data gathered during 2 1/2 months, all the car's movements, locations and resting hours, everything could be reconstructed completely.'

The final chapter deals with the legal basis. When reading the law article quoted there one can easily see that only hard-core crime is being covered by this measure - what I said earlier already. Otherwise, they're being abused. But the police etc have probably come to like them, and so they try to use them whenever possible, hoping they will find a way around the courts or counting on sympathetic courts. And we still haven't talked about secret services who are 'outside the law', or private individuals.

Here's another one of these devices, with more detailed description (and several illustrations), although in german:

http://www.wato-soft.ch/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=152

Mind you, there is no power problem for this one as it is being connected to the vehicle's power system. Like I said earlier, I have seen photos of smaller ones than this one - about 1 centimetre squared, 1 or 2 millimetres thick. An appliance so small won't use much power, I assume. When its battery life nears the end, the appliance will simply be replaced by a night patrol, while you sleep. They know where your car stands, remember?

Generally speaking, it lies in the matter's nature that it won't be so simple to gather much more evidence shortly. May I suggest we remain attentive and add new samples whenever we get across any? One of the methods for accelaeration of this process could be this one: Why don't you quite bluntly confront your police with this question and see what they reply? From my knowledge of the USA, I would assume that this presently is more something for metro areas - couldn't somone ask the SFPD, the next time he is there? Again, over here we won't get any information.

Michael Laudahn 22:31, 18 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Here is another article on the verdict quoted above, see . It is more detailed than the one mentioned and so contains some more information. The part most interesting for us is probably a sentence in the second paragraph under 'Keine verfasssungswidrige Rundumüberwachung' ('No anti-constitutional allround surveillance'). Let me try to translate:


 * 'The GPS receiver which used to be big as a fist has shrunk to 2.5 x 2.5 cm (1 in squared).'


 * That was in april of 2005, and according to the author's knowledge. Where does the average journalist receive his information from?!


 * Michael Laudahn 11:50, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

Concealable tracking devices
I was under the impression that GPS receivers required a clear view of the sky for a fix. General Motors mounts the OnStar GPS under the rear window and below the rear deck in some of their sedans, because the window and rear deck are transparent to RF. Once you pull into a garage, it loses lock. Wouldn't these devices be fairly simple to locate based on the fact that they need line of sight to the sky. My handheld GPS doesn't work indoors, so I'm guessing that if it was underneath metal parts of a vehicle it would be very hard to get a 3d or even a 2d lock. That's part of the reason I've always been a bit skeptical of the need for GPS in cell phones. The person stuck in the trunk of their car excuse never really flew with me, GPS doesn't works too well in the trunk. So if somebody sticks a GPS receiver to the underside of a car, I don't think it would be effective. --Dual Freq 00:15, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

No longer true, according to what I've read here (let alone my personal experience). The present fully-pro generation is so sensitive that it works even when placed under a car, and without a visible antenna.

Michael Laudahn 14:06, 19 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I think I'd have to see a review or unbiased article about one of these devices. A web search comes up with several of these, but most of them have external antennas. Maybe with plastic bumpers and other parts of cars being plastic this could increase the hiding spots. However, I'm still skeptical of just magnet mounting one of these to the bottom of a car. Maybe multipath could get a satellite or two, but even if it did somehow achieve a lock, the battery life would decrease greatly, because the receiver has to work harder to get a lock. I think this combination of battery life and because it has to have a view of the sky would make these things fairly simple to locate. If someone keeps hiding stuff under your car on a regular basis, you would eventually catch them in the act. I'm not buying it for long term surveillance. As for the GPS jamming, again, GPS is an important safety of navigation signal, if you try to jam GPS, law enforcement really will be after you. Even a low power signal could possible disrupt receiver within line of sight of it. GPS information page, GPS power details basically says that a GPS satellite sends less than 500 watts about 11,000 miles. It seems like jamming it, even with a low amount of power, would be possible since a jammer is much closer than the satellite. This would be very hazardous to safety of navigation and you can bet if interferance is detected, someone will come looking for the source. --Dual Freq 00:59, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

Unbiased article: Don't expect to find something like that in the near future. The ruling class has inflicted this new scheme upon the rest of the population, and you cannot expect them to voluntarily reveal it for the public.

We as the potential victims will have to do the investigation work ourselves. Have you read all my contributions on this page? If you go from there, with the basic knowledge you apparently have, you should get there, sooner or later.

Have you especially seen my remark regarding the password-protected folder at, expressively directed towards the german LEC ('BOS')? Wouldn't you agree that this most probably is where all the REALLY INTERESTING stuff could be found?!? Enigma...

Jamming: Again, I'm not an expert on this. I thought a low-power, very short-range jamming device inside your (remember: mostly moving) car could limit the impact largely on your own, enemy-placed device.

However, we do have a valid concern, I would assume, and so we would be in our right to defend ourselves. You're very welcome to offer alternative solutions, as long as they do their job: alternatively protocolling, jamming, finding the bug.

Michael Laudahn 10:47, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

Can I make you a suggestion:
Let's leave the helicopter component apart, for the time being. It has been proven that GPS/GSM (thus not GPS/SMS - explanation below) bugs do exist. And common sense tells you that they can be applied for useful purposes, but also as weapons against you. Pursuing ordinary people considered political dissidents by our powers-that-be through GPS/GSM bugs is probably not the kind of activity we have given them authorization for. And this pursue can be done not only through helicopters, but e g from an office equipped with the necessary technology.

I've done some more research over here. I found a german also interested in this field. Although I wasn't quite sure to what degree he had or has a relation to the state (I asked him directly, but we haven't known each other before so wasn't quite sure what to make of his cautious reply), we did agree upon that there is a huge abuse potential for these devices. Should society's balance of power have existed before, then it has been in a state of constant threat ever since the advent of these devices.

He also drew my attention to the fact that the SMS service of GSM is not the only possible transmitting service (for one's geographical coordinates) to be aware of. It can e g also be done via GSM's GPRS/EDGE data transmission, and maybe better so. This is the reason why I would suggest to rather use the term GPS/GSM bugs. If you find a more neutral term that also included other standards like CDMA/Qualcomm (I assume the same technological effect can be accomplished there), I certainly wouldn't object. If you don't, let me suggest to stay with GPS/GSM bug - they were probably first. Also, in a couple of years, the GPS-competing european Galileo system should be ready - no reason either to rename the devices then, according to my feeling.

We also discussed potential counter-weapons and agreed that a combined weapon would be ideal, i e one that could do the following three things, according to the situation's requirements:

1 record all GSM activies at very close range; at the end of the day, you connect it to your computer and make a print-out of the protocol containing the geographic coordinates telegrammes including the recipient's number, for further evaluation through a state attorney;

2 jam the GPS AND (!!) all four GSM frequency bands at very close range, in order to prevent measurements from being made, as well of telegrammes being sent AND 'silent SMSs' being received and returned (they, too can be used for determining one's whereabouts);

3 help you find the tiny and hidden device, so you can remove it (and stick it to an enemy's or patrol car, if you like).

Would someone kindly update the article correspondingly? You're the native speaker(s) and do have more Wikipedia experience.

PS: I would also deem it useful to possibly include people from the 'civil liberties' section into this discussion. After all, it is civil liberties that are at stake through GPS/GSM bugs, so they ought to be informed too. I am sure they will be able to give much helpful input. I'll try and start with putting an 'ad' at their repective talk page.

PPS: Please also change http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gps_tracking#GPS_tracking in a way to indicate that the main article about this subject now is to be found at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GPS_tracking.

Michael Laudahn 14:09, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

PS: I've done some more research. There is a well-known bi-annual trade fair called Security, which takes place in Essen/Germany. Their website (english version) is at.

Through the exhibitor list, I've found e g the Berlin-based company Fugon, website (english version). Let me suggest you have a look at their products, last not least their various PDF documents. They also refer a number of times to the finnish company Benefon, cf, which I've heard of in this context a number of times earlier.

If we then try to summarize our findings so far, i e those that are uncontested, then it is probably safe to say:

1 GPS/GSM localizers do exist. They determine the position of the object they are fastened to and send these data via GSM to some kind of surveillant. If that person sits in an office, a patrol car or a helicopter, or if there are several of them and in different places, can probably remain open at this stage.

2 GPS/SMS localizers can have obvious advantages, if used for the 'right' purposes. In the wrong hands, they open a Pandora box of abuse potential.

What else remains open at this stage are probably the questions of minimum size, concealed mounting places (without the need for external antennas), battery options and related issues. Anything else? My guesses, based on personal experience as a presumed years-long victim of such a device and a lot of subsequent reading and pondering, are these:

3 Size: tiny

4 Mounting place/external antennas: anywhere/not necessary

5 Battery: probably stand-alone with sufficient life-span. When the end gets close, a night patrol will change the device while you sleep.

Please notice that the german version of contains a section which is not available in english: Between 'what we do/was wir machen' and 'how we do it/wie wir's machen', there is a section called 'BOS'. That's the german acronym for 'behörden für ordnungs- und sicherheitsaufgaben', or 'authorities for order and security tasks' - the german version of your 'law enforcement community', probably. This section is password-secured. Can we assume that all the really interesting stuff is hidden on those pages, if they need to block public access for them? Also, Benefon has probably more to offer than what they show on their pages.

So a number of uncertainties remain, but this lies probably in the matter's nature. The only thing we can do is stay alert and try to do more investigation, when- and whereever possible.

See you at the Essen Security *) this year? The truth is out there somewhere - hey, let's find it!


 * ) 2006-10-10 through 13

PS: Through Google's images search, I've just found this interesting looking english site:.

Michael Laudahn 17:25, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

Hey - don't change too much, compared to the original version -
- we're about to go astray, is my impression. Remember, I'm the one who gave the idea, based on my years-long practical 'victim perspective' experience. I would like to continue to recognize the matter and the intention.

When the article is getting closer to your Wiki image of the world, while moving away from reality, then this may be an indication that something is wrong not with reality, but with that image of yours. Most of us adults should know this 'image-fixed' phenomenon quite well from our inevitable dealings with jurists: They keep on clinging to their images too, no matter how crazy they are, measured by real-world standards, just to avoid to have to adapt their procedures to the requirements of the real world (thereby simultaneously keeping up their dominant position within society).

Michael Laudahn 22:56, 20 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Nothing is stopping you from editing the article and making it right. See also How to edit a page. As stated above, content must not violate any copyright and must be verifiable. Remember to look at No original research and Reliable sources, and cite your sources. --Dual Freq 23:25, 20 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Every time you edit a page it says If you don't want your writing to be edited mercilessly or redistributed by others, do not submit it. I don't know what you are taking about with your 'image-fixed' comments.  I think Wikipedia editors are more open-minded than most people.


 * I fixed up your section about abuse by linking to some related articles about the subject that I think you might be interested in. I took out the part about the helicopters because you said in your comments above that the tracking could be done just as easily from a car, or even an office, so helicopters are not really central to the subject.  Perhaps your helicopter experiences would be more appropriate for the Surveillance abuse article?  But in any case, the only statements Wikipedia can keep in the article are those that can be proved true with reliable evidence, more or less.  I will check out the references you have provided when I have more time.


 * Also, if you want help and cooperation, it would be smart you to keep your comments as brief and to-the-point as possible. Some of your comments above are repetitive or kind of long and rambling.  Some people who might want to help could lose interest if it takes too long to read the comments.  -- Agent X2 17:25, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

Agent X2: Basically thanks - with a 'little' more
(Little has to be a bit more in this case. It just lies in the nature of the matter.)

First: English is not my native language, so I won't correct the article myself. I rely on others to do that for me, based on my suggestions. Again, I am a german dissident and as a man with a technical background, I do not only have years-long experience with most probably driving around a hidden GPS/GSM bug and the consequences of this arrangement. I also have the ability to become aware of it, although I have to rely on many 'strange observations' which after months of further observation and consideration start to make sense, if you explain them the way I have.

I had prepared a comprehensive letter yesterday summarizing the present situation of the article - i e before your recent changes. For ease of work, let me copy and paste it here, erasing only the sentences that have no more meaning at all. The rest therefore is still true, more or less:

First, I'm not quite sure what implications the 'Articles lacking sources' classification has. There sure is a lot more to say and show about this subject, but I think it is already now safe to say that we've got a case. So what about removing it from this kind of probably discriminatory category? I suspect that presently it looks like a kind of 'crackpot' article and therefore doesn't really invite others to join. Would there be a more suitable 'wanted' category?

Second, we do agree that these appliances exist, and that they also can be abused. Experience tells you, if something can be abused, it also will. Experience also tells you, that government agencies are no exception when it comes to this kind of things. What we need are more details about their (i e the presumed LEC = military version) size, sensitivity (with respect to the concealed places they can be attached to) and battery life-span (assuming they're not installed, just stuck with a magnet or some dough-type fastener). In the discussion, I gave the URL of a leading german maker of these objects and tried to draw your attention to the fact that their folder directed to the LEC is password-protected *), while the material for the general market is on open display. Would that ring a bell with you?

Third, I would like to see several changes in the article. I'll enumerate and motivate them in a separate message - see below.

Fourth, I'd like to join everybody into the discussion who is interested in this subject and can contribute something reasonable (or maybe knows someone who can). My idea is, this is not just an electronic gadget issue, this is a civil rights concern. Do you see any other faculties involved, besides electronics and human rights? How do we spread the word among them? Again, we need to remove all the discriminatory classifications from the article for others to join.

seen my remark regarding the password-protected folder at http://www.fugon.de/, expressively directed towards the german LEC ('BOS')? Wouldn't you agree that this most probably is where all the REALLY INTERESTING stuff could be found?!? Enigma...'
 * ) For your convenience, let me quote that sentence: 'Have you especially

Third: Desired changes to the article

Foreword: ok

Types of GPS trackers:

I've been informed that they don't necessarily limit temselves to SMS, when transmitting. Another option would probably be to use GPRS - one of the wider used packet-switched data transmission modes in cellphone systems.

It is also here that we ought to mention that they are used for tracking down criminals. I've sent you proof of that. See the discussion page where I quoted the two media article discussing the german constitutional court's verdict on GPS/GSM bugs dating back to 4/05.

It ought to be mentioned in that same chapter that there is reason to believe that there also exist more 'professional' versions for the use through the military, LEC etc, which are probably smaller, more sensitive (can be placed 'anywhere' and still work, without external antennas) and have a long battery life-span.

Potential abuse of GPS trackers:

What is said in the box is basically correct. Could it be re-formulated in a way to provoke people's interest, rather than stir a feeling for lack of trustworthiness? Something along the line that 'these are military-style secrets thus hard to ascertain; anyone from inside this business having doubts about their ultimate legitimacy should feel invited to help us with the facts we need', maybe?

Please delete this 'black helicopter' stuff. Instead, just mention that anyone with the necessary reception gear can (ab)use the information coming forth from any of these bugs. And if he sits in an office, a patrol car or ditto flying machine makes no difference, in this context. The present wording only contributes to make the whole matter unauthentic.

Instead, you could say that if these devices (i e the LEC version) are as small and powerful as they seem to be, then this would open the way for ample abuse of them, through state agencies as well as private individuals. This conclusion would then logically lead over to

Countermeasures against GPS trackers (because now most would probably regard them justified):

What is said there is not incorrect. However, I would suggest to enumerate the complete range of options the ideal counter-weapon should dispose of: protocolling, jamming (GPS + GSM), finding facility. Finally, it would also have to be emphasized that the jamming capability of the counter-weapon ought to be designed in a way to have ultrashort-range effect only; in other words to make sure that in most cases only one's 'own' (enemy-planted) bug is affected, not the legitimate GPS and GSM devices of other people faring in the vicinity.

See also/External links:

I feel at this stage not in a position to say something founded on that. However, my impression is that if the article is less than ideal, then this collection of links ought to be revised, too. What does make sense are the last two GSM links, as they show in which countries GSM is available plus the footprint of the networks in each country.

Michael Laudahn 10:46, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

Store and Forward
The paragraph: Besides this, jamming an industrial grade GPS transmitter would only work temporarily because most of them use a "store and forward" procedure to store up points that were not received and transmit them again later. This capability is built-in so tracked vehicles don't lose data when they are out of cellular range temporarily.

Is surely wrong?

If the GPS frequency is being blocked then the device could not store and forward later as it would not know where it had been. The Store and Forward functionality would only work if it was the Cell Phone / Transmitter frequency that was being blocked, not the GPS frequency.

Personal GPS Trackers
I have sent Ivan a message with regards the deletion of the above, as I do not believe it is spam. I would appreciate discussion on this

212.169.1.41 14:00, 27 March 2007 (UTC)Adam


 * The "where is Tim", "where is Adam" and "Badger track" links and article text were written like spam - a bit of text, and then several links. My first reaction in those cases is to delete the links. Having a second look at the links, they seem not to be about advertising, but about some geeks tracking themselves 24/7. Maybe some reqriting, and putting the links in the appropiate section (instead of creating a new "External links" section on bottom) would be fine.
 * However, I should take a look at the Wikipedia Style Manual, just in case.
 * Ivansanchez 16:18, 27 March 2007 (UTC)


 * On a second though: those links may match rule #11 of "Links to be avoided on wikipedia": "Links to blogs and personal web pages"
 * Ivansanchez 16:21, 27 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I appreciate the Style Manual claiming such links should be avoided in normal circumstances however the section was discussing personal pages as this is the cutting edge. In this particular circumstance, I feel that the links are justified as they add to the content in Wikipedia by saving a reader having to Google.  However, if you would prefer and as a compromise how about we simply put the text back in the page but leave the links out? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 195.26.44.39 (talk) 18:05, 27 March 2007 (UTC).

not a crystal ball
I removed the paragraph "The advent of GPS tracking devices potentially could shift society's balance of power towards that of a police state. It is now much easier for surveillance abuse to be used for political repression or social control, as envisioned by George Orwell in the novel Nineteen Eighty-Four." as WP:NOT a crystal ball. Actual verified abuse that has occured, or verifiable warning of future danger from a legitimate published party (shouldn't be too hard to find) would be OK. Herostratus 08:55, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

About "potential abuse"
68.251.43.232 posted inside the article:

This above information is inaccurate. The 7th Circuit Court of Appeals in United States v. Garcia (7th Cir., 2007) 2007 WL 286534, held that placing a GPS tracking device on the vehicle owned by the suspect did not amount to a search.

Ivansanchez 01:08, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

advertisements
The following entries in "see also" appear to be ads. do they belong here? (GPS Equipment companies etc) Insight_USA ESITrack Inrix Dingfelder 01:45, 16 March 2007 (UTC)


 * They are links to wikipedia articles not to sales sites. GPS Police and OnStar are companies as well. If the articles linked to are bad articles then get those articles deleted. --Dual Freq 04:29, 16 March 2007 (UTC)


 * not quite what I meant. What I was asking is:  These links point to wiki pages for companies in the GPS sector.   Should those pages exist as wiki articles?  or are they themeslves spam? Certainly there are many other major companies in that same sector that are not listed.  I don't see any particularly notable info on those pages, that sets these companies apart from their competitors. Should all major companies in this sector have therir own pages and then be listed here as well?  Adding only a coupld compaines out of many seems subjective at best. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Dingfelder (talk • contribs) 22:37, 18 March 2007 (UTC).

I have a question: under the company section of this wiki article there is only one company name. When other companies are added (non-linking, wiki-linking, or outside linking) they are deleted within a few days. Is this right? Should the companies section be available for all comapny names or just OnStar? brian1y 4.25.07


 * A company should be linked from a wikipedia article if it is really relevant to the content of the article. e.g. if that company invented the GPS modules, or contributed with a major and recognised technological breakout.Ivansanchez 18:16, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Proposed merge of GPS Wildlife Tracking
I feel there is a substantive difference between GPS Tracking and GPS Wildlife Tracking which, as a process, is a branch of environmental biology and potentially conservation management. Should any merge be deemed necessary, I feel it should be into an article on Wildlife Telemetry or Animal Telemetry in general. Steelwool (talk) 05:02, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Countermeasures against GPS trackers - original research or synthesis
Are there any available references for the material covered in this section? Would synthesis be a better tag? (sdsds - talk) 05:53, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: page moved.  Ron h jones (Talk) 00:33, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

GPS tracking → GPS tracking unit — GPS tracking is a process which involves the Global Positioning System (GPS) to locate a given object or person. Current article is about units, and there are no articles about tracking as a process - Relist (WP:RM template was placed on wrong page)  Ron h jones (Talk) 23:08, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

—UrusHyby (talk) 13:46, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

Survey

 * Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with  or  , then sign your comment with  . Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.



Discussion

 * Any additional comments:
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Here's a recent wired.com article with photo dealing with the issue
Caught Spying on Student, FBI Demands GPS Tracker Back

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/10/fbi-tracking-device/

2010-10-07 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.7.141.141 (talk) 20:41, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

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THE GPS tracking Devices for dogs
The GPS tracking devices are dogs units that are used to track them in case of theft or during hunting to know their direction. The best-known GPS trackers for dogs re the Garmin. It has the best collars for dogs like the dc50 collars, alpha 100, Astro 430, etc — Preceding unsigned comment added by 154.72.153.221 (talk) 04:10, 17 January 2021 (UTC)