Talk:Gaga (game)

Name spelling
Game is called "Gaga", "GaGa", "ga-ga", and "Ga-Ga" throughout the article. As the article is entitled "Ga-ga", I am going to change the spelling in the article to "Ga-ga" (also Ga-ga ball). Please follow this standard, or at least discuss an alternate standard if you feel a different one is more appropriate. ZanzaraEE (talk) 04:21, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

I think that it should go by "Gaga". The "Ga-ga" spelling is very awkward, and we should change the title as well. StainlessSteelScorpion (talk) 00:15, 30 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Its known a "Gaga" or "Gaga Ball" here in the US. Should at least have re-direct so people can find it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 23.31.17.177 (talk) 16:38, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
 * I've added one at ; the Gaga disambiguation page already has a link to the article about the sport. Graham 87 11:41, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

Rewritten Regional Section
As no regional variants are discussed, the section was renamed and re-written about the spread of the game. All specific names of camps are removed as they are non-notable. See the discussion below about this is not an ad... also that discussion on this page is consolidated. --98.229.149.74 (talk) 14:23, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

question
how big is a regulation size Ga-Ga court?


 * I don't hink there is anything official, but my camp has roughly 5 by 3 yards. I'm bad at estimation so I may be off by a yard. I can get measurements on the 31st.--Metallurgist 22:23, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Done.--Metallurgist 03:11, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

I have another question. I'm wondering if you could add more information on how the game is actually played. Other than being similar to Dodge Ball, there are no specific rules of the game listed. I sense there is some rule about balls hitting legs being out of bounds (thus the need to kneel?) What about ricocheting balls off the walls--does that "kill" a person? Please give more details about this so we know how to play it. Thanks. Marko46 (talk) 13:25, 24 June 2010 (UTC)marko46

The name
Is this really the only name? When I was in Scouts we played this exact same game under the name "Venturer ball", mostly with a basketball. Don't recall the three bounces or elimination for dribbling though. Stevage 07:06, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

"black mumba" technique
Could the author of this please elborate on the technique, as i know ga-ga enthusiasts would enjoy reading about learning/improving their abilities with this technique. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 220.235.19.85 (talk) 07:11, 11 January 2007 (UTC).

ANSWER: The Black mumba technique is very succesful when used correctly. With less than 10 people still in play, one runs up to the rolling ball and fakes hitting it, but stops it instead. A team mate then comes from behind or from the side of the first person and quickly, but powerfully hits the idle ball. I use this move often, with a mediocre success rate, but it is awesome when it does work.


 * At my camp that kind of block or stoping the ball in general would be considered a "baby block" and would be grounds for removal.Sgcgirl52 09:30, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

refrain from mentioning your summer camp
Just because somebody makes up a variation at his or her summer camp does not mean that it needs to be on Wikipedia. Everyone knows the ga-ga at my camp is the best. Please resist the temptation to turn this entry into an advertisement for your favorite summer camp. Doing so is unethical and contrary to the purpose of an online encyclopedia. Statements like "The game is primarily played by staff, in the dining hall, after lights out" is not only poorly written and rife with grammatical errors, it is really only applicable to a small number of people. In addition, terms such as "lights out" are undefined. "Loud music adds to the excitement of the game" is also inconsequential and subjective. The purpose of this entry is to use its information to learn about the game of ga-ga and apply that information; It shoud not serve as a summer camp message board.Furthermore, hall of fame statistics are more appropriate for that particular camp's web site. Also remember to spell "ga-ga" in the entry the same way it is listed by Wikipedia.
 * Well, slightly less dramatically, we have Wikipedia is not for things made up in school one day. The advertising aspect is less important. Stevage 08:01, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
 * On this note, is the "In most circumstances the injury is treated with a quick trip to the camp nurse, who may apply some hydrogen peroxide to the wound and cover it with a bandage (a pretzel may also be provided to the wounded in an effort to take their mind off of the pain)" really necessary? I'm not that knowledgeable about ga-ga, but unless it's a consistent practice to give out pretzels, this doesn't seem relevant to me. Sam927 20:24, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
 * releveant, no. Hilarious, yes.--75.8.79.54 (talk) 01:44, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

removal of "I love Camp Livingston AU 06"
Is there any real reason for this comment? Untill i get a decent answer, im removeing it. Eds01 03:10, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Coleman Country Day Camp
IS there any need for the Coleman addition?--Metallurgist 23:32, 18 August 2006 (UTC) -- Acutally, there is quite a need for the Coleman Country Addition. As the flagship facility for GaGa in the ACA-NY section, it is a trendsetter in today's Long Island GaGa scene.
 * I dont think so. I'm removing it for now.  Eds01 04:24, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Changes
As original creator of the article I strongly advocate keeping mention to specific camps off of this entry. Everybody thinks their camp "created ga-ga", but without proof it's unsubstantiated. It's better to provide a link to your camp's web site. For this reason I am removing any mention to specific camps (i.e. Idylwold and Coleman). Lippsjo 00:49, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Pali
This game is also played at Pali Institute. I would like a link of it so it may be added to the article.-- RyRy5 Talk to RyRy5! 04:19, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Appropriateness
I agree with what Sam927 is saying. Although I have played gagaball and it is an enjoyable game I don't believe this article is appropriate for Wikipedia in its current state. It does not cite any of its claims and seems to be merely people trying to get their summer camp mentioned. I feel the claims need to be referenced and the article cleaned up. MTWCaputo (talk) 03:04, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

Explain
Explain why this article is on the road for deletion? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Djug (talk • contribs) 16:43, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

Removed Final Paragraph
Removing implausible text. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ga-ga&diff=550532825&oldid=549746379 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cariaso (talk • contribs) 20:29, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

OVERALL EDIT
The fundamental problem with this article is that it presumes the game of Ga-Ga was invented in Israel, when that has never been properly substantiated. In fact, many theories exist that the game was invented in the American northeast. Specifically here are the problems with the article:

1) The article opens open with the Hebrew translation of the name, while Steve Steinberg of Baltimore, Maryland -- who claims to have invented the game -- disputes that nomenclature with his own report of how the name was invented. Also, opening with the Hebrew translation piece suggests that Wikipedia believes the game is Israeli in origin.

2) The article includes the subhead, “Popularity outside Israel,” which, again, suggests that Wikipedia believes the game is Israeli in origin.

2) The article claims that the game was “played in the Australian Jewish community of Perth, Western Australia, from [sic] the 1960s” with absolutely no verification or sourcing; and which undermines Steinberg’s claim to have invented it in 1975.

3) The article claims that the game was played “played in US Jewish camps and Youth Movements in the 1960s” with absolutely no verification or sourcing; and which undermines Steinberg’s claim to have invented it in 1975.

4) The article claims “it was played as early as the mid-1960s in a wide variety of locations” with absolutely no verification or sourcing; and which undermines Steinberg’s claim to have invented it in 1975.

I have read through all four articles that are listed as References. Here’s the rundown:

--Kalamozoo Gazette: The article is poorly written and dubiously reported, because it includes both of these phrases: 1) “Ga-ga, an Israeli form of dodgeball” and 2) “He suspects the game did come from Israel, as it is rumored.” So we have one definitive statement and one speculative statement, and neither is backed up with any sourcing or verification. Also, no dates are mentioned.

--The New York Times: Says “Believed to have originated in Israel” and “has been a standby of Jewish summer camps and community centers in the United States since at least the 1970s.” Both are valid reporting and both align with Tablet Magazine reporter Stephen Silver’s recent investigations, in which he states that the Israeli connection may or may not be a myth, and the date (“1970s”) would align with Steinberg’s claim that he invented the game in 1975. No other dates are mentioned.

--New York Post: Has no reporting on the game’s origins, and no dates are mentioned.

--WABC Eyewitness TV: is a dead link.

In an attempt to fix all of the above, I edited the article with the following corrections:

1. I deleted the Hebrew from the opening line, because it suggests that Wikipedia is buying into story that the game was invented in Israel story, when that COULD in fact be a myth. I moved the Hebrew to a lower section in which I discuss the origins of the game.

2. I deleted all references the original writer made to specific dates, because the article states them as fact without any sourcing or verification.

3. I deleted the subtitle, “Popularity outside Israel,” because it suggests that Wikipedia is buying into the story that the game was invented in Israel, when that COULD in fact be a myth. I replaced that subtitle with the subtitle, “Invention, Origin and Ga-ga's "Founding Father,” being careful to put those last two words in quotation marks, so that readers would not believe that Wikipedia is buying into Steinberg’s claim of inventing the game.

4. Then I wrote the following three paragraphs, which I believe responsibly 1) sorts out everything, and 2) does not commit factually to any of the theories. I sourced both articles written by Stephen Silver of Tablet Magazine, who has done inarguably the best job is attempting to pinpoint the origin of the game.



“Invention, Origin and Ga-ga's "Founding Father,”

The invention of Ga-ga has been a source of speculation since the latter half of the 20th Century. One prevailing myth was that the game had been created and brought to the United States and Canada by Israeli counselors working at Jewish summer camps. In an August 2016 article in Tablet Magazine entitled, "The Ga-Ga Saga," writer Stephen Silver cited further legends behind the game's invention, including a theory that it had begun in Israel as a training exercise for Israel Defense Forces, or that it had been created in America, at an Adirondacks summer camp in the 1950s, where it was known as “Crosleyball.”

One year later, however, Silver wrote a follow-up piece for Tablet entitled, “Is the Mystery of Ga-Ga, Everyone’s Favorite Summer Camp Game, Finally Solved?” Revealing that his “quest to find the inventor of the iconic game” had led him to “an unlikely founding father: a nice zaydeh [Yiddish for “grandfather”] from Maryland,” Silver interviewed a 61-year-old reflexologist and native of Baltimore, Maryland, Steve Steinberg, who revealed that he had invented game in 1975 as a teenage camp counselor at Camp Milldale, a Jewish Community Center [JCC] camp in the Baltimore area, while charged with supervising a group of 6-year-old boys. “[Steinberg] says he started the game for the same reason it’s still played today at countless summer camps,” Silver wrote, “to keep campers busy on rainy days.”

Contrary to the theory that the name of game derives from the Hebrew word meaning, “touch-touch,” Steinberg explained to Silver that the name came from a spur-of-the-moment comment he’d made to his charges. “Steinberg says that during a moment of frustration,” Silver wrote, "he told his campers that they 'all look like a bunch of babies'—at which point some of the kids began chanting ‘goo-goo, ga-ga,’ which soon became the name of the game. When Steinberg had to fit the name on a written activity schedule, it was shortened to ‘ga-ga.’”



Unfortunately, when I posted the above fixes, they were removed three times by Wikipedia editor DMarks, who continued to argue that I had not substantiated my reporting, when if fact I had. (Full disclosure: I am a professional writer/editor and a columnist for USA Today.) Additionally, DMarks has been sarcastic and patronizing in his remarks to me, so I appealed my case [Ticket #2017080310002901] to someone at the Wikipedia Foundation, who recommended that I make my argument her. I would happily post my improved, more journalistically accurate version of the article, but I've been warned that that will break some sort of three-post rule, and that I will be banned from Wikipedia. So I am hoping that this appeal here will help me get the proper version of the article posted.

--Bruce Kluger brucekluger.com

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Bruce Kluger (talk • contribs) 20:57, 4 August 2017 (UTC)


 * This issue has already been discussed at and  if anyone wants to see what the responses were. Meters (talk) 20:24, 8 August 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
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Request For Clarification
Not wishing to buy in to a discussion from three years ago too deeply, I do want to raise a few points. Ta heaps! Wprosser5 (talk) 23:45, 16 February 2020 (UTC)
 * The first reference link takes you to a page that has a title, but no article. Is that a regional thing? Can I not see it because I'm in Australia?
 * The article implies, but does not state, that the game is played in Israel. However, all explicit statements cite United States or Western Australian locations. Is there specific information available that shows how popular it is in Israel? Are there Israeli Gaga leagues or organised tournaments? Estimation of number of players in Israel?
 * Gaga ia hugely popular in Australian scouting. Most district camps have gaga pits, and many troops have their own. My troop at 2nd Lara used an old horse training pit until the pony club dismantled it. The article mentions Western Australia, but I'm in Victoria, and I understand (from Jamborees and other cross-state events... yes, hearsay, not a definitive fact) it is just as popular in NSW and Queensland.
 * When discussin the use of gaga in the USA, the article seems to focus on summer camps. What is the extent of play outside of summer camps and the like? Is it popular in US schools? Are there leagues or organised competitons? What about US Scouts and other youth movements?
 * Does gaga have a following in Britain or Europe, or anywhere else, or is it strictly Israel, USA and Australia?
 * I don't know anything about the subject of the article – it's only on my watchlist due to vandalism. However, the text of the first ref is viewable through the HTML source ... I can't actually read the article either though. Graham 87 03:13, 17 February 2020 (UTC)

Lady Gaga reference
Article says "Pop star Lady Gaga credits her love of the game for her stage name." The linked source (http://www.nypost.com/p/entertainment/cuckoo_for_gaga_UjrglYzFSLjXgJcA3sdCVP) specifically states the opposite: "As for the Lady Gaga connection, “it’s totally coincidental,” says Schmelkin.    “The game of gaga preceded Lady Gaga. But people ask us if we’ll play her music, and of course we will!” "

Any reason not to take that line out?

174.89.43.50 (talk) 04:23, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Statements unsupported by the ref, and especially that are contradicted by the ref in relation to a living person really need to be removed ASAP. DMacks (talk) 04:26, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

Requested move 17 February 2024

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. Consensus to move. There are different, but yet similar dabs proposed, however the nominated one has sufficient support. – robertsky (talk) 07:41, 24 February 2024 (UTC)

– Per WP:ASTONISH, since global superstar Lady Gaga is often known as/referred to as "Gaga", along with other meanings. I therefore doubt that the sport is the primary topic. BD2412 T 00:54, 17 February 2024 (UTC) The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
 * Gaga → Gaga (sport)
 * Gaga (disambiguation) → Gaga
 * Comment: Even though I basically got us in to this situation in October 2020 (also see the page logs at "Gaga"), I don't have any strong opinions about what should happen here. At the time I made the page moves that got us here, I didn't even think about Lady Gaga being commonly known as "Gaga". I don't know much about either her or the ball game; the only reason this page is on my watchlist is due to this unreverted vandalism from late 2013, which I found because it was the only sport among a number of them listed that I'd never heard of mentioned at Newyorkadam's user page (permalink), which in turn I only found because of this Signpost comment thread. Graham87 (talk) 04:52, 17 February 2024 (UTC)
 * https://wikinav.toolforge.org/?language=en&title=Gaga isn't immediately impressive, with 4.9k of incoming traffic at Gaga in January, and the hatnote getting only 72 identified outgoing clicks, but it is #1 of just 8 identified outgoing destinations and the overall outgoing traffic is low at 249, so those ratios are ~1.5% or ~29%. Since it seems doubtful that the average English reader strongly associates this term with the sport, it makes sense to try changing navigation so that the disambiguation page is at the base term. Keep the sport on top per MOS:DABCOMMON to avoid astonishing the readers who are familiar with the sport, and worst case we'll have clearer data to base any subsequent revert upon. --Joy (talk) 08:51, 17 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Support the sport has 3,823 views but the plant has 328, the film has 186, the god has 129, the place has 28 and Lady Gaga has 548,685[].  Crouch, Swale  ( talk ) 17:48, 17 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Weak support, but would prefer Ga-ga, Gaga ball or Ga-ga ball per WP:NATURAL. 162 etc. (talk) 19:10, 17 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Google Books Ngrams search seems to indicate a preference towards the variant without hyphens, but doesn't seem to support using the "ball" suffix. It also doesn't seem to match this article saying mid-20th century because gaga in books appears since the '20s (which is less relevant for the choice of the new title but does seem to reinforce the idea of disambiguating this). History of the redirects seems to indicate that the gaga ball one is the older one, since 2016. Also, Gaga seems to have been pointed to Lady Gaga in 2010 but was soon deleted and replaced; GaGa went back and forth as well. --Joy (talk) 21:25, 17 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Support per nom. No clear primary topic for this title, so the safest bet is to have the disambiguation page at the basename. Paintspot Infez (talk) 16:54, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Support per nom. No primary topic. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:59, 22 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Support Gaga (game), the term more often (though not always) used by sources without an interest in professionalizing it (these were found without using "game" as search term). Hameltion (talk &#124; contribs) 21:51, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

Realize I joined the discussion late, but wondering if anyone objects to changing the disambiguator from (sport) to (game). See comment above, and additional evidence includes 65,000 ghits for "game of gaga" and 1,670 for "sport of gaga" (and gap though smaller between "gaga game" and "gaga sport"). Hameltion (talk &#124; contribs) 18:40, 24 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Support per nom. DMacks (talk) 10:35, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

Requested move 1 March 2024

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: page moved, unopposed. wbm1058 (talk) 23:28, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

Gaga (sport) → Gaga (game) – (disputed at WP:RMT) The title should use the term more often (though not always) used by sources without an interest in professionalizing this (sources were found without using "game" as search term). Additionally, "game of gaga" gets 65,000 ghits compared to 1,670 for "sport of gaga" (and there is a gap though smaller between "gaga game" and "gaga sport"). Hameltion (talk &#124; contribs) 15:56, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Pinging who opposed doing this move at WP:RMT; sorry 162, you're right that a second move shouldn't rely on only silent consensus. Hameltion (talk &#124; contribs) 16:01, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.