Talk:Galaxy Airlines Flight 203

Identifying sole survivor
While Project Aviation seems to have a general consensus not to include names of non-notable people other than flight crew on aviation accident/incident articles, there should obviously be an exception for circumstances like the sole survivor of this accident. George Lamson Jr. is notable, but he is notable for being the sole survivor of this accident (he's even a subject of a documentary on sole survivors, Sole Survivor).

Per WP:BIO1E, "When an individual is significant for his or her role in a single event, it may be unclear whether an article should be written about the individual, the event or both. In considering whether or not to create separate articles, the degree of significance of the event itself and of the individual's role within it should both be considered. The general rule is to cover the event, not the person."

So this article covers the event, and is also the appropriate article to discuss the person. If you remove the references to the person here, then that would warrant creating a standalone article on him... which would conflict with WP:BIO1E. So, clearly there should be an exception to the "general consensus" where an individual has notability related to the aviation incident or accident, because it's recognition that the person is notable, the accident/incident page is just where the coverage of them and what makes them notable belongs. As a reminder, Wikipedia articles are about general notability, not just notability to the aviation community itself. Shelbystripes (talk) 23:43, 20 January 2020 (UTC)


 * We generally don't name nonnotables who are passive participants, victims, witnesses, and so on, unless it's somehow necessary for article flow (as, for example, if by naming persons X and Y we can better narrate some sequence of events involving them). There's WAY too much about this guy, while at the same time there's a glaring contradiction: at one point we're told rescuers found him still in his seat, at another we're told he was "up and walking before the arrival of emergency services". The name of the fire chief, what station number he was from, and all that other jazz add nothing to the reader's understanding. Even the bit about Jesse Jackson is apparently completely irrelevant.The talk of a separate article is a complete red herring; under no circumstances would we have a separate article about this person. EEng 07:06, 21 January 2020 (UTC)
 * - Why do you say Lawson's notability is a "red herring"? There are numerous articles over a span of years that specifically discuss him, not just naming him but discussing him specifically, that indicate lasting notability (some examples of notability in: 1987, 2013 , 2014  , 2015 , 2019 ).  In general (non-aviation-specific) secondary sources, Lamson appears to be the most notable thing discussed about this accident in the decades since; leaving him out makes this entry blatantly incomplete.As an additional note, I discovered while looking for more sources that George Lamson Jr. has actually been a redirect to this article since 2006.  Clearly WP:BIO1E applied at some point, and given that longstanding redirect, the decision to remove content about him should require consensus.  Shelbystripes (talk) 02:36, 22 January 2020 (UTC)
 * I didn't say anything about his notability. I said there's no way we'd have a separate page on him, which is a different question. See below. EEng 05:38, 22 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Also -- I'm willing to acknowledge the article requires work and had inconsistencies, but I'm more than happy to put additional work into cleaning it up further. Obviously I'm not going to do that if my edits are just going to be reverted though. Shelbystripes (talk) 02:38, 22 January 2020 (UTC)


 * has hit the nail squarely on the head. If the person (excluding crew members) has no WP article about them it would be very unusual to name them in an air accident article. - Samf4u (talk) 15:12, 21 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Actually I hit my thumb, and now I've got a rather nasty bruise, but I'm glad the point came across. EEng 16:45, 21 January 2020 (UTC)
 * If a person isn't notable for a stand alone article per either or both BIO1E and WP:GNG, clearly they aren't notable for mention in an article by name either....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 15:53, 21 January 2020 (UTC)

Nonnotability
Of the six refs provided by Shelbystripes... At that point I gave up. He's not even close to being notable, and even if he were, per WP:NOPAGE we'd cover him in this article. But he's not. He was miraculously thrown clear and survived. That's it. He did nothing. He was completely passive. His later journey of self-discovery is standard crime/disaster/human interest coverage and makes him no different from any number of sole survivors: my house burned down and my family was killed, but I survived; my dad crashed the car and my family was all killed, but I survived. The accident is notable and that someone survived should certainly be mentioned, but his name and subsequent life have nothing to do with the accident and tell the reader nothing. EEng 05:38, 22 January 2020 (UTC)
 * The first's material on Lamson reads, in its entirety: George Lamson Jr., whose father died of injuries suffered in the crash, reached agreement Wednesday with lawyers for the Florida-based airline for an undisclosed sum, said attorney Charles Hvass Jr ... Lamson, 19, of St. Paul, was sitting next to his father and survived when the fuselage broke where he was sitting in the sixth row. He was thrown onto the middle of a highway more than 25 yards from the burning plane, still strapped into his seat. He suffered burns on his face and arm, and cuts. After recovering from his injuries, Lamson graduated from Cretin High School and enrolled for a short time at the College of St. Thomas in St. Paul and now plans to enroll again, Hvass said. Under the agreement, which will be filed in court next week, Lamson gives up any further claims stemming from the accident, Hvass said. Lawsuits stemming from the death of Lamson’s father were settled out of court last year.
 * The second is a film industry announcement whose text on Lamson reads, in its entirety: Sole Survivor focuses on the journey of George Lamson Jr, who is one of 14 people known to have been the sole survivor of a major airplane crash. In the doc, Lamson seeks out the other 13 sole survivors of airplane crashes, finding along the way a young teenager who survived her plane’s crash into the ocean, and Jim Polehinke, a former co-pilot who struggles with survivor’s guilt.
 * The third is a review of Sole Survivor
 * The fourth was written by Lamson himself.

I removed the mentions of Lamson by name and the bit about the plane's prior use. There is still no consensus to name survivors and the other bit is irrelevant to this accident....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 13:42, 23 January 2020 (UTC)

"George Lamson Jr." listed at Redirects for discussion
A discussion is taking place to address the redirect George Lamson Jr.. The discussion will occur at Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 February 22 until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. ...William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 23:37, 22 February 2021 (UTC)