Talk:GameMaker/Archive 1

Initial message
The link to Arsenark.com is misleading as it has no official affiation with Game Maker and does not supply any additional information. In one of the Game Maker Community subforums one can find a whole list of other sites that offer the same service. --Ingolemo 19:10, 5 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Licence Issues
The article currently states the following:

Games can be distributed under any license (including no license), in non-editable executable ".exe" files or as the .gmk (Version 7.x), .gm6 (Version 6.x) and .gmd (Version 5.x and below) (source code) file itself. Users of Game Maker are allowed to sell creations as long as no copyrighted material is included without the copyright holder's permission (images, sounds, etc.)

The problem with the current text is two-fold:

(1) "Games can be distributed under any license (including no license)" is false (or at least out-dated) based on section 3.4 of the EULA:

You agree to ensure that: ... the Games and all materials accompanying the Games shall include a notice and End User Licence Terms: (i) identifying the rights of YoYo Games and that they include, are based on and made using the Software; (ii) that such end user will have no right to modify, adapt, decompile or reverse engineer the Games or make any use of the Software contained therein nor to permit anyone else to do so; and (iii) that such end user must not remove, disable, modify, add to or tamper with any program code or data, copyright, trademark or other proprietary notices and legends contained within the object (compiled) code of the Software;

(2) "Users of Game Maker are allowed to sell creations as long as no copyrighted material ..." implies that the only condition on distribution is that which relates to copyrighted material. The GM7 EULA actually lists 8 conditions very explicitly (again, section 3.4), and others are implied throughout the document, such as with the quote above.

I'll go fix these issues now (EDIT - Done), but I'm not sure if the few opening paragraphs are really the best place for this any more. A good place for a simple "GM is free and you can do whatever you want with it," but not really the place for a statement with so many qualifications attached. Feel free to move it if someone can find a better place.

--XDanielx 16:14, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Neutrality
Reading this article, I sense some bias in statements such as "...allowing users unfamiliar with traditional programming to intuitively create games simply by organizing things visually on the screen." This may just be my interpretation, but the writer of this part seems to have at least a slight bias towards Game Maker. 71.71.67.210 17:43, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I think the word "allowing" makes the article neutral. It doesn't exclude the possibility that someone can't intuitively create games. Fredvdp 5 June 2007
 * There's also the unsourced "Disadvantage" section, which claims the existence of a good decompiler is a disadvantage. Flying Bishop (talk) 11:35, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I know where to find it, but the problem is that decompilers are against the EULA, and I don't think it can therefore be linked. 92.37.89.95 (talk) 15:45, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

YoYo
I added the first information of the yoyo happenings. Feel free to expand and remove my tag.

--Crash2108 03:21, 27 January 2007 (UTC) YoYo Games has also been a cause of heated discussion on the Game Maker Community. Novice and experienced Game Maker users alike feel that the switch to YoYo Games will cause more harm then good.
 * This text suggests that everyone is up in arms about the move to YoYo. My own experience seems that a small subset of users is very vocal but the majority doesn't mind. Many people have no registration issues and don't mind the EULA from people I've spoken to. I'd say this part should be rewritten to better reflect the two opinions at the GMC.--Simon Donkers 08:23, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Version 7
I added in a development section to highlight the facts about the upcoming GM7. Feel free to edit it. --DizzyTech 13:38, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

there is no version 7 coming up, but there might be a version 6.2, mark overmars hasn't even mentioned version 7 and the site that clams to have pictures of version 7 is a fake. mark overmars is most likly to make v6 go up to v6.3/4. greg(unreg)

I hereby declare Greg(unreg) the most stupid person on Wikipedia. Can't you just freaking read? --==&#39;&#39;&#39;&#91;&#91;User:E-Magination&#39;&#39;&#39; ==]] 08:32, 28 October 2006 (UTC)


 * "The full posts from Mark Overmars himself at the Game Maker Forums can be viewed here, here, and here. The topic itself is currently here."
 * All the links from the line above are now broken; all return "Cannot find topic". Sicanjal 15:44, 23 November 2006 (UTC)


 * ...Hmm. I don't know where the topic went. Somebody must have run a pruning; the topic was locked.  Somebody removed the reference section.  Although, that bug fixes list should suffice for valid GM7 proof. DizzyTech 02:31, 2 December 2006 (UTC)


 * GM7 is here. so don't complain about it being fake. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Blasterman 95 (talk • contribs) 16:43, 4 March 2007 (UTC).

yes, it is indeed here to back up what blasterman said. I own game maker 7.0 pro edition myself so, you can't say it doesn't exist. Oasiyis —Preceding comment was added at 01:15, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Criticism
I feel that criticism section for this article is necessary. It should contain common complaints such as:

1. GM's performance issues.

2. GM's lack of native 3d support.

3. The large binaries GM creates.

4. GM's poor error checking (thus it gives runtime errors).

5. The forced logo displayed when loading games created by unregistred versions.

There are definately more criticisms, but I'd like to hear the feedback of others before me or someone else creates this new section.


 * Point #5 is nonsense. Of course unregistered versions of shareware programs have limited functionality. That's part of the whole model.
 * As to the rest, find some citations for these "common" complaints and you're good to go. -Stellmach 19:39, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
 * To give a complete view of the program, limitations should be mentioned, but they should not be noted as "criticisms". The point of any article is to give facts in a neutral way. This is almost impossible with so many contributors, but you can limit it by not using certain words. "Benefits of..." is better than "Positive points about...". "Limitations of..." is better than "Criticisms about...". -- CobraWiki 21:53, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Which are the performance issues? It seems like alot of open-ended game creation tools will have an issue or two without proper coding and for neutrality we could say "free version limitions" or "advanced version extra features"--Old Guard 01:41, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Umm... #2 isn't really fair, it's not meant to be a 3d engine. It states that on their website. As for the others, this is an educational tool. I find the other crits irrelevant to the article. GearType2 08:31, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Okay. My experience is that Game Maker rarley offers poor performance. The only time I have seen that happening is in a beta RPG and a example my friend made the made like 30 objects shake and blow up in 3D mode. Blah2
 * I don't mean to bash Game Maker, but its poor performance relative to other comparable tools is extremely evident. It's simply a corollary to GM's status as an interpreted language. The speed of the interpreter is reasonable enough that sometimes the performance limitations aren't easily noticed, but a bit of speed testing will immediately produce very obvious disparities between GM and compiler-driven alternatives. Interpreting code consumes processing power; the only possible exceptions are cases in which an operation within the runner was compiled with substantially better optimization that an alternative compiler, but given a common tool like VC++ such cases are extremely rare at best. I don't know about the others, but I think #1 and #3 are definitely noteworthy.--XDanielx 07:39, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Point 4 seems wrong. If a language doesn't have runtime errors, surely thats detremental to its usability... --The Mysterious Gamer 23:44, 2 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I don't really think that the points you've discussed are very valid. Number 1: GM's performance issues.. what performance issues? I haven't found any and have been using the software for many years now, sure it may have its limitations but they aren't issues. Number 2, as said above GM clearly states it is not really designed for 3D usage. Number 3.. I don;t know what you're on about, lol. Number 5, the lite version uses the logo display as encouragement for players to get the pro edition. If you actually bothered to pay a measly £10 then you won't suffer from it, besides I could live with it anyway; it's not really a great critiscism.. MasterOfHisOwnDomain (talk) 18:49, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Member number at the Game Maker Community
Please do not change the member number without knowing what you are doing. I don't want to change it back all the time. The fact that some members have a member number of over 36 000 does not mean that there that many members. To see the correct number of members, scroll down to the bottom of the board index and look under "board statistics".

The Game Maker/GameMaker despute
I made an attempt at solving this dispute. Game Maker gets its own article, and the two programs called GameMaker can share an article, and both articles will link to each other. That should solve the problem, right? --gakon5 12:05, July 11, 2005 (UTC)
 * You should probably make a disambiguation page. (It would be a cleaner solution.) --Figs 21:30, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Recently YoYoGames has changed the name of this article's software to GameMaker as well. Abubalay (talk) 14:01, 26 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, this article's name is incorrect. There should be a disambiguation page, because like the other programs, this program is (currently) called "GameMaker" and not "Game Maker". --82.170.113.123 (talk) 11:23, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

Formatting
Huge images like the user interface shot are rarely a good idea. That's why we have thumbs. Formatting using large amounts of empty lines is never a good idea. Use something like if you must. I made some changes that demonstrate what I mean. Rl 09:06, 12 August 2005 (UTC)

The DLL list looks stupid.
We need to get rid of it. Also, The Tuc screen is very bad quality.

Added a few relevant articles,-E-Magination.
 * I removed the DLL list, it doesn't belong in this article

Created for...
AFAIK Mark Overmars didn't create GM for educational use but began using it in his course after writing the first version. I remember reading Mark's version of this somewhere, but I cam't remember where. Any ideas?

[New editor] I don't think it's a decisive issue, but I believe the quote you're looking for can be found here.

Game Maker was not written as part of work but started as a hobby project. It is though used in the course on game design.

He did though mention in various other places that early versions of GM were largely designed for his own purposes as an educator. It seems that the very, very early releases were more of a hobby than anything else, while the slightly less early releases were designed mostly for educational use - although of course it's not a black-and-white distinction.

--XDanielx 03:42, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Links
Re 09:56, 2 December 2005 Haeleth (rv linkspam and remove several other links (WP:NOT a web directory)) Can we have the educational links back? Is there some other way to accomodate them if not suitable here?

Well nobody objected so an educational link is back.

GM-Made Games WP Category
Well, I decided it was high time that someone made a GM-made games category, so here it is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Game_Maker-made_games

Just use this tag in your article to add your game to the list:

Somebody still needs to edit the article itself and ramble about GM-made games and stuff. I'm too lazy, not to mention supposed to be doing schoolwork, to do this myself. Be aware that I'm a WP n00b so IDK if I'm doing everything correctly. Takua108 17:41, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

Double screenshot
Why is the GM GUI screenshot shown twice in the article? That's a bit messy... --Quadduc 05:11, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

oops, my mistake. It was mostly that somebody else changed the text of the image an I just wanted to create a start.Good you notice --E-Magination 15:00, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Links
Ok for all of you that say that my link is "spam" while every other link is to other sites that relate just as much as my site. I want to see some talk about this. My site has every much of a right to post a link in the external links as every one else, my site relates to game maker. It is not a spam site, it is for helping users. I see nothing in the rules that says I can't post a link that relates to the page in the external link list. Every other site can but my site, they all deal with the same stuff and they all deal with Game Maker. I would like to ask you all to give me a reason why the link is spam (a real reason, just because), or stop this right now. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by WordWiz (talk • contribs) 01:23, Apr 9, 2006 (UTC).


 * You are putting up a link to a forum with 24 members, which is considerably less than any of the sites listed. Take for example the Russian GM community with more than 2000 members, or the official GMC with more than 27000 members. There are dozens of Game Maker related forums the same size as yours. Should we add all these too? I don't think so. --Quadduc 10:13, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
 * The Russian GM community is the only external link to nothing but a small forum. This forum is three times as big as yours (counting the members), it is a whole lot more active than your forum, and it is not just a tiny copy of the official GMC with 1/1000 the amount of members and different admins. If I were to decide, it would probably not have been listed here either. Other reasons why I don't think your link should be added, is that you own the site yourself. It is against the guidelines to add such links. --Quadduc 16:55, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

Ok now, you just did that after I showed you the facts, that not all the forums on there are big, and ect. My forum is very active, also, we have about 72 registered members, 2712 posts, and about 600 unique hits in a day. The forum is faster, has more tools, and gives power to the users then any other forum. We are in no way a tiny copy of the GMC, or any other forum. If you look at any of the froums, you will see this is clear. I own the site myself, and a team of other game maker users, yes I am the root admin. But that dose not prove a real point. I do no see any guideline that says I can't post a link that relates to the topic. Show me the rule, or is it you are making up your own "rules". There is no real point for me to "spam", with one link that is just like all the others. There is no realy a plus for me with page rank of any of that jazz people seem to talk about. I am just giving away free help to the community. The site unlike others has lots of hits, users and a lot of unique stuff that no other site has.

You are taking a power play with me, there is no need to do that.--31337 21:07, 26 May 2006 (UTC)


 * 63 Registered members and 600 hits a day? Please don't take this harshly, but that's pretty tiny for a forum. As the link adds nothing of value to the article (and is blatant advertising), I've removed it. I'm probably going to be doing a purge of a bunch of the other links... I don't see how they benefit the article and they're adding clutter. The article is about the program and not the amount of people who use it, so a link to the official community should be enough. Lankybugger 19:53, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

"blatant advertising" is harsh, and it is not really very blatant or really even advertising. If this was an advert, I would have just as easily made it in huge font added a banner ad and went to town. I posted a link, with a small description about what it was, the whole thing took up one line in plain text. I use advertising companies when ever I use ads. The only real reason I did this was to help out users and have a little fun coding a up-to-date site that people could use.

The "official community" is not enough, because they never update it. They don't really moderate it right, and they don't allow much freedom to users. Also, we have solved a large number of problems that the GMC could not solve, we also have a lot of articles on Game Maker that users can use. The link is fully related to the topic at hand.

We have 72 Registered members at this time, and 700+ unique hits a day. This is not a small forum, I am not saying it is huge, but it about it the 80% to 90% of forums for game maker. It is not "clutter" it is one line, and there is lots of help for users on it. It is not like there is some limit to the page size and it was put in the correct format. Also, the links are on the end of the page in the first place, there is nothing there to "clutter".--31337 22:14, 2 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Again, it is blatant advertising. You've admitted a very blatant bias: You somehow feel your own self-created community is superior to the official community despite a vast disparity in the amount of members and posts, and you're admitting you've added this link because YOU own it. I'd have a bunch less problems with this if it weren't you, the creator of these forums, adding the link.


 * My problem also stems from the fact that your own site doesn't add anything new or unique: The Dutch, German, and Russian forums have their place because not everyone speaks English as a primary language and people reading this article might be able to more easily acquire help or additional information from one of these sources. The only thing you're offering is the idea that your forums are somehow better because you disagree with the administrative practices of the official community.


 * While in theory these articles have no size limit, part of a good article is that it contains pertinent information regarding the topic at hand and does so in the most concise manner possible. Lankybugger 16:53, 30 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Seeing that the russian forum is listed with 321 members and a little under 7000 posts may I suggest the unofficial Dutch GMC to be added, http://www.game-maker.nl/, 55348 posts and 845 members? --Simon Donkers 12:14, 17 June 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree with Lankybugger and Simon Donkers, your forum should not be in this wiki section. It doesen't do any help to the page. I think you're outvoted.

Poppitypop 03:03, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

The way I see it, as long as the link relates, and is not dead. I see nothing wrong with it, also just a note to the user that thought my link was dead, it did not die we are just making an upgrade to the full copy of IPB 2.1.6 Thank you for taking it off the list, I was going to do it anyways at least untill the update is done.

Also, for any of you that post links don't make them wrap over use one line only! Thanks.


 * Seeing that nobody disagrees, could somebody add the link to http://www.game-maker.nl/. WP:NPOV does not allow me to do so myself. Thanks. --Simon Donkers 22:10, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

The G-Java link, really is not noteworthy enough to be listed as an external link in this article. It was nothing more than an over-marketed work in progress, with limited functionality that never came near what it's creator claimed it would. Game Maker is a mature, respected tool, G-Java never made it beyond early beta. The creators of G-Java have now changed their focus, and are nolonger targeting G-Java as a Game Maker conversion tool. This change of justifies its removal as an external link.
 * I'd have to agree with the anonymous poster above. I removed the "See also" link to G-java which was still there. --xDanielx Talk 03:47, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

GM Date
While reading the Game Maker article, I noticed the quote, "Overmars released the original version in 2000," but on his website he says the first version was released on November 15th, 1999. Before I make the change, could some one confirm this for me, please? 216.171.246.30 15:36, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Confirmed. I changed it for you as well. --Tyranic Moron 16:48, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Clean up?
Am I the only one who feels that the article needs a bit of clean up? Some of the points could stand to be clarified a little more (the differences between the Free and the Licensed versions could definitely be expanded) and the External Links and See Also could also use a good overhaul. Lankybugger 20:06, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Removal of links
I'm going to remove the TZ corporation and the Vertigo Games link because I feel that the "See also" section should be reserved for major articles dealing with Game Maker. The two game companies listed are just advertising. Also, should the TZ corporation article even be there? It seems a lot like a "garage company." Vertigo games, however, looks to be a little more major.

I also revised the "mininum system requirements" section, making it a bit more clearer.

I'm also going to remove "Coldgearz" from the list as it's a direct link to a ZIP file. This is not usually safe. I'm also going to remove Confilct: Online as the game has not been released as of June 4 2006.

Please don't advertise on Wikipedia, this is meant to be a reliable source of information, not anything else. --Coolbho3000 23:01, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

The TZ corporation and Vertigo Games are both garage companies, neither are run by more than 2 or three people. In fact, almost all Game Maker based devolopment companies are run out of people's bedrooms, I don't think it's appropriate to include links to any of them. TheFearedMachina 10:52, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

I removed a link or two from the Creation's section, it seams to have been added by it's creator. A single person made then entire article and linked to it. TheFearedMachina 19:07, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

I removed one link that was for an apparently dead site. Also, the "Unofficial Game Maker Community" doesn't look very active, and it seems to be nothing but a copy of the official GMC but with fewer members and other moderators. -- Quadduc   T  M    15:55, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

I removed this top site for reasoning similar to Quadduc's. A top site with only one member site is not significant, and so clearly matches #1 and #3 of Links to be avoided. --XDanielx 02:36, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Extend Drag-and-Drop?
The third paragraph states:

"To extend the drag-and-drop functionality of Game Maker, users can use files called Libraries to add new drag-and-drop items known as Actions to the lists. These can be created with a special library builder."

Before we even know that Game Maker uses drag-and-drop, Actions and lists (a term I have never heard although I have used GM for several years), the article says that we can extend them. This is too technical for the third paragraph. Drag-and-drop functionallity should be introduced in the third paragraph, but Libraries should be left for much later.--Dougall 21:52, 26 June 2006 (UTC)


 * It now reads as follows...

"Game Maker is a game development software application written by Mark Overmars in the Delphi programming language. Overmars released the original version on November the 15th, 1999. The features of Game Maker can be extended by registering it and paying a fee of $20.00 USD or €15.00.

The primary interface for the creation of games is via an object-oriented drag-and-drop system, allowing users unfamiliar with traditional programming to intuitively create their game simply by organizing things visually on the screen. Users select objects they've created themselves and drop instances of these objects in the area of the game they are working on, and Game Maker automatically applies any global effects to that instance of the object. To extend the drag-and-drop functionality of Game Maker, users can use files called Libraries to add new drag-and-drop items known as Actions to the lists. These can be created with a special library builder.

The program is designed to allow its users to easily develop computer games without having to learn a complex programming language such as C++ or Java. For experienced users, Game Maker contains a built-in scripting programming language called "GML", or "Game Maker Language". Games can be distributed under any license (including no license), as non-editable executable ".exe" files or as the .gm6/.gmd (Source Code) file itself."

Is that a little better? Lankybugger 17:02, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Freeware
You guys know that this program used to be freeware, right? RocketMaster


 * You guys know that this program still is freeware, right? --67.142.130.26 03:03, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Game Maker is not freeware now, it is proprietary software. If it was freeware it wouldn't have a registration mechanism to unlock features / remove ads. It would also have a lot more freedom of distribution rights, which it doesn't. Game Maker fits more into the shareware classification, except for the fact you can't share it with others / redistribute.

Cut a swath through Syntax
That section was really cluttered and unnecessary. That level of detail should probably be reserved for either the Game Maker Language page or the Game Maker wikibooks entry. Cheers, Lankybugger 16:14, 10 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Added a bit more on GML. If anyone knows which version featured the switch from GML and the object-oriented parts being seperate to GML being the base on which the object-oriented parts ran, feel free to add it. Cheers, Lankybugger 19:11, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

"Current Version" section needs cleanup
I don't think that the DLL list is essential to the article at all, and should be removed. I don't think anything in the section is relevant, because it doesn't say anything about the "Current Version", but talks about features of Game Maker. Does anyone else think the section should be renamed "Features" and the DLL list should be removed? Edit: the part about the book doesn't belong in there either.


 * I think the DLL list needs to be curtailed, certainly... Though perhaps leaving a few in to demonstrate the versatility of Game Maker would be a good solution. As for the book, I believe it definately belongs since it was written by the author of the program and relates to it specifically. It certainly something worth mentioning.


 * I think the main part of this article which needs reworking is not necessarily the content, but the structure. It's currently disjointed and jumps around quite a bit. Lankybugger 13:20, 13 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Okay, so I removed a couple of repeated DLLs (we only need an example of ONE 3D DLL and ONE Networking DLL, guys) and I've renamed "Current Version" to "Features", expanding a bit and removing the repeat information about the book. I've done a couple other things as well, like rewriting some sentences. Lankybugger 16:49, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

GMWiki
Just a warning to any trigger-happy editors out there, I'm adding the GMWiki to the links list. It has a lot of Game Maker related material on it, so it should go here. --Workman161 03:06, 26 July 2006 (UTC) via Direcway (67.142.130.26 03:06, 26 July 2006 (UTC))

Removing Sections

 * I am removing the two sections on the GM Apprentice book and the GM forums. As I see it, things like these should only be refrenced in the External links section, and no where else. Though they may have been created by the same creator of Game Maker, the relevancy is almost equal to those in the External links section.


 * Not really, the External links give a very small statement about the link, while a full section will explain things a lot better about the link.


 * Sorry, when I meant relevency, I meant the topics in the two past sections and the links of the External links were of the same importance. ChadyWady|Talk 16:38, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

TIRED of ADVERTISING
Seriously, every time I look up this article on Wikipedia, there's ADVERTISING going on. I just removed some website ads. Should we lock this article to prevent it from any more damage?? --Coolbho3000 23:55, 13 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Agree While I think that there can be some worthwhile contributions from unregistered members (as that's how every editor gets hooked into Wikipedia), the External Links section seems to be getting changed the most. We don't need links to every single Game Maker website out there and this article definately isn't improved by all the reversions and warring over the External Links. Lankybugger 13:06, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

yes, it would appear that some people really like to spam about Game Maker, locking it is probably the best idea, and even if it is locked, non-members can just as easily request an edit on the talk page --Tyriel 09:22, 16 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Disagree Most Game Maker users are between the ages of 8-17. No need to get hasty and say they like to spam. Protecting it so only registered wikipedians can edit would be a good idea, but I'd rather just watch the article and manually remove the drivel. Protecting seems a little harsh for the audience of Game Maker. -- workman 161  2006-28-08 03:17 03:17, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

and if no one minds i'm going to -cut- a few of the external links out.. they seem to be ads again Tyriel


 * Agree Seeing what goes on on the Game Maker Community, this does not seem to harsh. I also looked at the history of this page, and about 75% of the edits made from new users and unregistered users are made on the sections of Games made with Game Maker and External Links. ChadyWady|Talk 08:11, 29 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Disagree Perhaps we should just include a link to Game Maker forum's Website Announcements board? This way, the websites there get recognition and people don't put it here. --Arcalyth 02:10, 10 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Agreeish. It should really be the link to the official site, and none of the games or related unofficial forums, unless they are notable forums in themselves.

Agree I dont know what locking is on wikipedia pages but i am in favor of just REGISTERED users can edit it. I mean, who needs a Danish community and all the other rubbish appearing down there! And the used to be a spelling mistake (Hungry to Hungary). Just kidding So yes! Ban editing from unregistered users CoolChris|Talk 07:48, 15 October 2006

Semi-agree in favor of workman161's proposal to limit modification privileges to registered users. Locking an article means stagnancy, and this article is far from "perfect as is." The handful of us users who check the article from time to time is more than enough to rectify the inappropriate link that pops up from time to time, so I don't see much point in locking it. --XDanielx 06:53, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Update. I requested semi-protection, as it seems fairly close to a consensus. The link is here. --XDanielx 09:28, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

New External Links section "Alternate Language Communities"
I figured it'd help, if we ever decide to cull a bunch of the unofficial links, especially because I consider the alternate languages a far more useful resource than yet another English community link. Lankybugger 16:35, 17 August 2006 (UTC)


 * In addition to the above, I've toned down the descriptions for both ALC Links and Unofficial Links. Terms like "Better" are POV. I also removed some of the link spam.


 * At the rate this is going, I'm beginning to think that the Unofficial External Links section is becoming more hassle than it's worth. Lankybugger 16:43, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Games made with Game Maker
I think the list should be removed, and move the link to GMWiki to External Links. It's a bit unfair (not to mention NPOV) to put certain games in that list. ~iNVERTED | Rob (Talk) 21:08, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree. This article is about GM not about games created with it. I took the liberty of removing the section. If anyone thinks the list belongs in Wikipedia please create a new article, but quite frankly I don't think a list belongs in a seperate article either as it would be to spammish.
 * Agreed, sort of. There should definately be a Category created for Game Maker created games (as there are some notable ones), but until that happens I've restored the games list for now. Especially since a lot of other editors seem to like the list and slashing an entire section of the article without warning is probably a little more bold than need be. Lankybugger 00:13, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
 * As an addition to the above, I couldn't find any log of the previous Game Maker Games-type Category being deleted, so it looks like it just fell in a black hole of some sort. Lankybugger 00:27, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

Several GM games have had Wikipedia articles created for them, but to the best of my knowledge all of them were found not notable and have since been deleted. --XDanielx 06:44, 15 July 2007 (UTC) Except for the commercial ones! - 80.42.238.26 (talk) 16:15, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

New category for games...
So, I've made the following: Category:Games_made_with_Game_Maker

We can now remove the list and just put this on the end of the article. We can (and should!) expand this list to include every game made with Game Maker on wikipedia. Cheers, 74.116.128.135 01:09, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

Agreed, but we don't need to add everygame made in GM. Just have the users add to the category. But making a seperate category was a good idea. [User:soten355]

Indeed. This is a major reason why I created the GMWiki. Perhaps a notice comment in the page telling people they should put their 'advertisements' there instead? -- workman 161  2006-9-09 17:37 17:37, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Something to keep in mind: if WP ends up with a flood of weak game stubs for the category, the stubs and the category could both come up for discussion and all be deleted. A similar topic was deleted in the past(archived discussion). Learn from this instead of allowing the same to happen again. -- CobraWiki 05:01, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Update - All games currently listed in Category:Games made with Game Maker have recently come up as AfD(1)(2)(3)(4)(5) with the exception of Seiklus which was nominated at an earlier time and kept(6)). First and foremost, I do not encourage going into the AfD topics to flame, beg, or gang up to try and force a topic to remain. AfD topics are not a vote; they are a discussion of correct action. Considering some of the most popular games created with Game Maker are not considered WP-worthy due to a lack of notability and verifiability through reliable sources, it is possible the category will also come up for deletion discussion. I am certain that if other games created with Game Maker(7) had been in the category, they would have been listed AfD as well. I would suggest no longer creating any Game Maker game articles and placing them only in GMWiki as suggested above. -- CobraWiki 03:14, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

System Requirements
I had to make some changes to the system requirements. After making them, they were changed again to unofficial specifications. I changed them once again to reflect those shown on the official Game Maker website and in the Game Maker manual and also sent a message to the user about the issue via PM.

The user was trying to indicate Game Maker 6 can run smoothly (with not definition of "smooth", I'm assuming this means 30 FPS or more, atleast it should) with as little as 4MB of video memory, despite the fact the Game Maker page clearly states 16MB or more is an absolute requirement to run the program effectively. As I told the user via PM, although it may be possible to run GM under those minimal conditions, it is not ideal and will not run all features correctly and effectively, and this is why it is important to use the official requirements; both to keep it consistant as well as providing the correct information (obviously a 4mb video card is not going to support such features as 3D game making or large images/backgrouds).

As I told the user, the Wikipedia isn't a place to post information which you cant verify from another source that is aknowledgeable and trustworthy such as the Game Maker site. To simply conduct private uncontrolled testing and then trying to use these results as the listed GM System Requirements is unacceptable.

I also removed the paragraph about Game Maker 6 requiring more resources than version 5. This is obvious, firstly most programs follow this pattern, secondly its obvious by looking at the requirements that Game Maker 6.x needs a higher performance computer. It was also not needed becase it didn't provide any useful information it simply stated something to the effect of 'Game Maker 6 uses more resources so people with old computers use version 5'

I also removed another paragraph which apart from using incorrect diction, didn't need its own paragraph. It simply said the requirements include the actual game you create with Game Maker, I moved that statement up to the top paragraph of the System Requirements section.

Another paragraph was then added to inform users about the issue with Game Maker and Windows Vista, specifically how versions 6.x and 5.x do not work on Vista currently but in response to the problem Mark is making a new version 7 which will be compatible with the OS (as stated by Mark on the Game Maker Community forum)

- pythonpoole

Incompatibility with Windows Vista
If I'm reading properly, the article says that both Game Maker 5 and 6 are incompatible with Windows Vista. What about games made with Game Maker 5 and 6? Will they work?
 * GM5 and 6 do not always work on Vista(and their games too) GM7 will.--==&#39;&#39;&#39;&#91;&#91;User:E-Magination&#39;&#39;&#39; ==]] 16:57, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Mark created a converter (Just swaps the compressed header out for an uncompressed version). Perhapse this should be mentioned? Leif902 23:58, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, this might be against what Wikipedia is not: A how-to manual. According to the article, a WikiHow or Wikibooks are the proper place for that.
 * Or perhaps not, I won't be the judge of that. --Darkuranium (talk) 20:58, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

More advertising.
Got rid of "Several online entertainment groups, such as Cubex Digital Entertainment, use Game Maker"

Please, nobody's going to click the link. Vandalizing Wikipedia is the lowest form of advertising.--Coolbho3000 19:45, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Older Versions
I created a small section about older gamemaker versions...If you think it's obsolete feel free to delete it...or if you think it's useful feel free to expand it :D —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Pikpatsu (talk • contribs) 14:05, 24 December 2006 (UTC).

"Game Maker Community" article merged
I merged the "Game Maker Community" article and edited it slightly so it would fit. I'm not sure exactly where the paragraph would be best to go, perhaps it could be higher in the article, but I put it between "Educational Use" and "See Also".

I think the community is fit to be mentioned in this article, because it is the official forum and it has thousands of members, and for many is an important part of using (and playing games made using) Game Maker. Feel free to disagree. Johnmyster

GMWiki: Part Deuce
I'm wondering where I should re-add the link to GMWiki. Activity is slowly growing, and the project is still alive. Just sticking a link into the external links region seems a bit NPOV/unfair/snobbish to me. Any suggestions? -- workman 161  2007-11-02 20:57 20:57, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I would say do not add back in external links at all. Reading through WP:LINKS, here is what I see: the three main What to link points are met. Without reading through the whole GMWiki site, I assume points #3 and possibly #4 of "What should be linked" are met. The main opposes, though, are possibly point #3 of Links normally to be avoided: "Links mainly intended to promote a website." (Are you wanting to add it back for the benefit of a good resource for Wikipedia readers or for your own benefit to bring Wikipedia readers to your site?), and more likely #12: "Links to open wikis, except those with a substantial history of stability and a substantial number of editors". Given the negatives and the fact that external links are meant to be kept to a minimum is why I say it should not be added there. That only leaves it being used as a reference for points in the article, but under these circumstances that's a iffy situation since you could purposely place information in GMWiki so that it would be used as a reference in this article which feels more like a sneaky way to advertise than a valid reason to include as a resource. — CobraWiki ( jabber 23:07, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

User Box Categories?
Hi, I just made some GML/Game Maker related userboxes, I was wondering if there were any categories that needed to be applied (is there a Game Maker User category?). You can leave any info on my talk page. Thanks -Leif902 01:59, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Screenshot
Could someone update the screenshot with a picture of version 7 running under Windows Vista? Thanks. (This should probably be put into a todo box, but I don't know how to do that). Leif902 14:44, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

I think that the current screen shot should be changed to a more standard look of Game Maker. The current version has an extreme personal variation of the program, with tons of extra action libarys added, and not very much content that actually shows Game Maker. A standard Game Make screenshot usually has one of every recource proporties box up, and it shows an actual game, not a blurry sprite and a few tiles in a room. Piepeople (talk) 19:06, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Forums
I have removed the somewhat biased information about the GMC. --Coolbho3000 21:21, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

GM Logo
Who thought it would be a great idea to replace the logo on the page with a non-official one? It leads to confusion and misrepresentation. There are no restrictions by Mr. Overmars on the usage of it. Yes, it is meant for non-commercial usage. But there are no restrictions in the GM License preventing its usage. I don't really understand the whole issue against non-commercial images as Wikipedia is a non-profit organization. As a long-standing member of the Game Maker community, I feel the flashy 'web 2.0' look is very wrong. Would someone please put it back? How about simply removing the image from the infobox? I'd agree to that more than having to go through the lengthy process of attempting to have a chance at Mr. Overmars glancing at my email header (hundreds of idiots e-mail him every day trumpeting over how good the program is, complaining about YoYo Games, etc.). -- workman 161  2007-18-04 01:24 01:24, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Dr. WTF reverted to the previous logo. I attempted to upload a slightly larger pre-antialiased and backgrowndless .PNG version of the same logo but it was converted adding the background back and ruining the antialias. Image was then reduced in size slightly through code to add antialiasing back. You may want to reduce it further. — CobraWiki ( jabber 23:42, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Versatility?
Hi, I'm a long-time user of game-creation software. Ever since 1999 I've been using programs such as Klik & Play, The Games Factory, and Multimedia Fusion 1.5/2. I've gotten to know the ins and outs of the Klik range of products, and I am currently looking to master Game Maker. When I read over the article, I was in disagreement with the following:

"Game Maker is fully capable of creating standard programs as well, making it a very versatile development platform."

Now, I know that it's perfectly possible to create other applications through Game Maker, but is it really practical? When given in the context, the statement seems a bit misleading to me. To my knowledge, most practical applications out there don't rely on interpreted code, DirectX 8 drawing surfaces, or large CPU usage when the program is idling. If you were to take the Unreal Engine and try to make an audio editing application out of it using only the Unreal Engine's built-in functions, and displaying everything in the DirectX/OpenGL renderer, you probably would end up with a rather bad or messy product at best. I personally think that this statement either needs to be changed, or something added to it, so that people don't read it and see Game Maker as an ideal alternative for writing a pi calculator. FoxBlitzz 01:57, 17 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I would argue that the phrase "making it a very versatile development platform" is nothing more than advertising puffery, but it is true that "Game Maker is fully capable of creating standard programs"; see the proof of bare bones progammability in any INC/DEC/DO...UNTIL ZERO computer language over all possible algorithms in J. Glenn Brookshear's Theory of computation : formal languages, automata, and complexity ISBN 0805301437. Game Maker is not an ideal programming environment (where ideal has meaning in the context of mathematical logic as it relates to the art of programming), but it does have the makings of a decent or even superior GUI/opsys front-end as it implements underlying Windows system calls, is potentially self-re-writing, and is extensible without bothering to get into DLL programming through its ability to interpret and execute GML code in text files. The idea of using GML objects as representing system services and resources may one day prove to be most useful (although the vast potential for abuse has a lot to do with the Prof. from banning such discussion from official Game Maker forums!) Hotfeba (talk) 19:02, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Gamemaker Logo.png
Image:Gamemaker Logo.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 10:42, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

History
I think a History section would be appropriate for the article. The software is nearly eight years old now and has evolved throughout the years. When I first started using Game Maker, it was on version 3 (this was in 2000 or 2001, only a year or two after it was released). I think the exact version number was 3.3. Anyway, the jump from version 3 to version 4.0 was a huge jump -- the interface was totally changed, the ball icon changed from blue to red, etc. So I think it'd be worthwhile to cover the history of GM from start to finish.

I can contribute what I know from being part of the community about six years ago; I quit using Game Maker sometime around.. 2002 I think. But I remember the community and all that. Prominent games from the circa 2001 era were Stealth Prankster (a game I made myself which gained quite a bit of popularity in the community), Dorf's Quest (I think it had a few sequels.. I'm in contact with the guy who made that game, still-- his online alias back then was Dorfsquest, an obvious reference to his game), etc. Some of the more well-known community members back then were me, DJvenom (still in contact with him, now an established spritist), Chronic (an admin in the chat and later in the forums, IIRC), Dorfsquest (still in contact with him) Nin10doman, Someguy, Somekid (still in contact with him)...

In 2001, I remember the two majorly-anticipated features were implemented into Game Maker: online multiplayer capabilities, and DLL capabilities. Now, I think the DLL support was released first. Online play was more or less the focus of the community at the time-- everyone was excited to make and play simple online games.

2D to 3D switchBack then, GM was 2D-only, was coded in Delphi (pretty sure it still is), and used an older version of DirectX, most likely using DirectDraw, before GM was later converted to use Direct3D (the system requirements for video cards made a large leap at that point). I left the community (for the most part) before version 5.0 was released, so I don't know exactly when it happened, but I think it was version 6 that made the Direct3D switch-- that's when 3D games started to become a reality. I remember seeing a first person shooter proof-of-concept demo around that time, but it appears that 3D games are a minority in GM creations still.

-- Josh1billion 06:20, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

I think a history section wouldn't be a bad idea, if anyone is up for it. If someone could write up a summary of early GM (pre-v4), I could do the rest. Like you observed (sort of), GM5 didn't have any architectural changes in the drawing engine.

This site can be used as a solid reference, as it's an unofficial copy of the official (older) GM site.

--XDanielx 06:40, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

MarkUp
What about adding something about the official magazine of YoYo Games (MarkUp Magazine)? To me this didn't seem like it was really relavent at first, but then gain YoYo Games does officially endorse them. Anyone else think this should be mentioned? Leif902 23:57, 7 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I would definitely object to giving MarkUp its own section, but I think an external link and/or a small mention (maybe in the lead, for lack of a better location) would be reasonable. Be careful if using the word "official" to describe MarkUp in the article, or users might mistakenly read it as "officially provided" rather than "official endorsed." — xDanielx T/C 07:41, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

More vandalism
When reversing vandalism, please use the revert feature (or look through history if auto-revert isn't possible) instead of just removing spam. This vandalism edit was removed in what looks like good faith, but not properly; the overall effect was this unintended loss of info. (I'm off to fix it.) — xDanielx T/C 03:02, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

GM has no pertinence?
The german GM-article is deleted and locked, because a mod things it has no pertinence. And he thinks that all the international GM-articles are only commercial entrys of the producers... very funny but unfortunately reality. Look here if you understand german. What do you think about that? --81.173.254.169 (talk) 19:37, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Game Maker Technology Magazine
What do you think about giving GMTech Magazine it's own section on the page. It has been around since November 2006, is supported by YYG, and Mark Overmars recently did an exclusive interview with the magazine. It is a monthly magazine and whenever a new issue is released it receives a lot of praise. I think a publication of this greatness, that many Game Maker users have heard of and look forward to each month, means it would be a good idea if someone who isn't biased towards it was to write up a section for it. 86.159.141.20 (talk) 16:17, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Website: http://www.gamemakertech.info

Forum: http://www.gamemakertech.info/forum

Email: gmtech.magazine@gmail.com

Thanks


 * If anyone is intending to add this paragraph - and personally I don't see it as being anywhere near worthwhile - please also note that there is a similar monthly magazine of very similar importance to GMTech called "MarkUp", which can be seen here. If either one warrants a paragraph, so does the other. However, I consider that neither is notable to warrant such a thing at this time. Greggers ( t &bull; c) 14:03, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

Lengthy registration process description
The registration process description:

"To upgrade one's edition of the software from Lite to Pro, one must pay $20 USD, £10 BP or €15 Euro. To get to the form that gives the option to upgrade one must open the software and click on "Purchase New" instead of "Cancel", the latter button opening the Lite edition of the software, the former opening a form from which one purchases their copy of the Pro license. The payment can be paid through PayPal, credit/debit card, or check. When purchasing a license, one enters their personal details (e.g. name, address). An important detail mandatory for the upgrading of the software from Lite to Pro is the entering of the email, to which the details of the license. After purchasing, one must enter an Activation Code sent to their email account or the Purchase Reference from the "Reactivate existing license" button and then input the email (License holder). One license works on three computers, but an extra $9.95 can be paid to get a Backup CD which is sent to your address by mail and from the CD the Pro Edition is available on any computer with the CD in the drive. Currently, it is possible to get a new license code, by inputting your old version 6 registration code to a form on the YoYo Games web page. The link to the upgrade site is here: YoYo Games Upgrade Site"

Isn't it a little bit unencyclopedic to describe this whole thing in such a large paragraph? This is an encyclopedia article, not a manual for a user who wants to buy a software program, but this section makes it look like the latter...

81.164.159.65 (talk) 18:54, 12 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Agreed -- the detail there is a bit excessive. — xDanielx  T/C\R 01:27, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Notable Games Issues
Someone keeps changing the Notable Games section so that Iji was made in three years. It was not. It was made in four years. Whoever is doing this I recommend they stop, or the Game Maker page be locked to only registered members. 24.19.8.196 (talk) 00:23, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

Macintosh Version
Incorrectly refers to Sandy as "she".

There is also an incorrect Sandy Quote as in this section stating the new version will be given to people who buy GM 7 after June 1. This is not true. GM 8 will be given to people who buy GM 7 after June 1. Not GM for Mac, as the location of this quote implies.

A GM 8 entry should probably be created. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.12.154.228 (talk) 17:05, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Advertisement on the External Links
Why are there links to commercial sites with google ads on the external links section? There are many game maker sites, magazines, info sites, dot org sites, etc'. Who choose the ones that are advertized here? I see it very wrong to use Wikipedia like that. Plus some of them have dead links. (the gmkings one). I can understand linking to sites that yoyogames (owners of gamemaker) has. But why link to random commercial sites? The last two links are Advertisement and I suggest to take them off. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.172.156.131 (talk) 19:33, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Logo image reverted
I reverted File:Game Maker 7.0 About.jpg back to the Game Maker 7 logo. Rather than replacing the current file, the GM8 logo should be uploaded as a new file using a different filename. Reach Out to the Truth 20:50, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

3D capabilities
Under the graphics section, it currently says "Much more support was added for 3D games was added in the 8.0 version of the Game Maker." Is there a citation for this? What improvements were made? —Preceding unsigned comment added by The Mysterious Gamer (talk • contribs) 20:50, 6 March 2010 (UTC)


 * I don't think any changes were made at all ... 91.176.133.53 (talk) 09:18, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
 * There were no announcements made by YoYo Games that stated this, and using this program I have not found any differences between the two versions. Brought to you by 03:06, 8 December 2010 (UTC)  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ev149 (talk • contribs)

GM4Mac release candidate:
I wanted to add: "On April 14 2010 a Release Candidate of GM4Mac has been released." However, I have no idea how to make references, and I'm afraid I might screw up the numbering. Could someone add this or anything else about the release candidate under the Macintosh header? -194.45.8.66 (talk) 11:55, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Versioning changes
I've made a few changes to the article where versions have been mentioned. Before my edits GM10 was at RC2, somehow. Also, 3D functionality was only in GM6.0. May I ask how the hell such dumb statements were added? Sir Banana (talk) 16:06, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

== Added link to the website forums in external links

Also, should there be a mention of other Game Maker forums that are in different languages? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.133.210.30 (talk) 14:17, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

YoYo Games separate article
As of 2010, YoYo Games is a game publisher, developer of Game Maker, and game hub.

Shouldn't there be a separate article for YYGs? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ugriffin (talk • contribs) 05:28, 17 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Separated into YoYo Games. --Eyas (talk) 16:11, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

Sonic
Sonic has a sprite in the old game maker,should this be noted? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.71.50.60 (talk) 20:45, 26 August 2011 (UTC)