Talk:Game over/Archive 1

Shining force
I just wanted to say that Shining Force is a bad example for game over, mainly because the game doesnt have a game over. When you die you wake up in a church with your money halved. There should be another example there.--200.31.1.98 (talk) 01:51, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

Disambig
It looks like we have some disambiguation to do. There is another entry at Game Over, mainly about a tv series, but it does briefly acknowledge the phrase. I think the best way to handle this is to have the phrase as the primary topic, with a link to the tv series, at Game Over (tv series) or something similar. That still leaves the question of whether Game over, or Game Over should be the main article, with Game Over a redirect, or vice versa.Silverfish 20:26, 4 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Update: I moved all the disambig stuff off the page to Game over (disambiguation) since there was a good number of other things named "Game over" K1Bond007 06:52, Mar 20, 2005 (UTC)

Aliens
I think the Game Over line in Aliens is used in the Alien³ computer game on the Game Over screen. Can anyone confirm this? Silverfish 20:26, 4 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * That's the SNES version in particularSilverfish 20:40, 4 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I've confirmed this to me satisfaction. In the game, the phrase is just "Game over, man!", but it sounds about the same as the clip from the film I've found here: Silverfish 15:48, 5 Dec 2004 (UTC)

The article at one point included a mention of the use of the phrase in the SNES Alien 3 game, and I've restored it, but what many folks may not know is that what you hear in the game was not an edited sample from Aliens, but rather a rerecording made by Paxton years later specifically for the game. I originally read about this in Nintendo Power, but for the life of me could not find any info on-line about it or what issue that article appeared in and hence the sentence still awaits a reference. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.254.81.5 (talk) 20:08, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

Earliest Use?
Has anyone researched the earliest use of "Game Over"? I'd be interested to know if it actually comes from Japanese game developers. Zoganes 00:38, 2004 Dec 6 (UTC)


 * I'm almost sure it comes from Japan. I speak Japanese and it sounds like typical made-in-Japan English: &#12466;&#12540;&#12512;&#12458;&#12496;&#12540;.  I'm not sure what the earliest use was, though, it would be necessary to look into early arcade games. --69.70.138.192 04:08, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Looks like it was in 1978's Space Invaders, which should narrow down the possibilities. Zoganes 13:52, 2004 Dec 6 (UTC)
 * Night Driver also has a game over message, and that seems to use it whenever the game isn't being played, rather than just after a game has ended. That was produced in 1976.Silverfish 22:26, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * "Game Over" also appears in Taito's Gun Fight (1975); that was apparently the very first arcade game with microprocessor hardware. AdorableRuffian 13:56, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Saved games
We're using "saved games" as saved games. I was thinking if we couldn't start the saved game article as well, since:
 * 1) I don't think computer file management fulfills the meaning of this tearm
 * 2) Saved games are common things in games, and they do have certain relevance and therefore worth an article. For example, we could mention how people hack saved games, metion RAM dumping and etc.

What do you say? I'm already going to create something at saved game. &mdash; Kieff | Talk 04:25, Dec 11, 2004 (UTC)

MGS Examples
The Game Over tricks used in MGS are really nice examples to be included in this article. But I think it'll be too late for those who've progressed the middle of the game to quit reading the spoiler (In fact, I'm one of the victims... ^^;). Wouldn't it be better if a spoiler warning is added? 202.182.225.254 09:46, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Adding BoBoBo reference?
I think someone should add a reference to Bobobo-bo Bo-bobo when the villain OVER transforms into his ultimate form, and GAME OVER APPEARS on his chest.
 * Maybe as a pop-culture reference, but I personally don't thik it's necesary. --IdLoveOne (talk) 16:48, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Spoilers
The Spoilers seem unneccissary to get the point across, and they look tacky to boot. Or is it just me? --24.162.58.145 03:33, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Major cleanup.
There was a lot of fluff in the article before that wasn't adding much. There's no need to detail everything about Continues or Bad endings here; a passing reference should be fine. Same in some of the examples; if spoilers add something to it, so be it, but there's no particular need to go over everything in Metal Gear Solid's story when the funny death scene is the entire point.

Here's a question. Should "Game Over" always be in quotes? Currently, we're all over the map on this count. My suspicion is that yes, we should, since we're generally using it as a phrase and not its grammatical meaning (see: Use-mention distinction). Another question is- should the O be capitalized? Generally, it has been in this article, and I've continued that- the old arcade games usually had GAME OVER in all caps, and many modern renditions have used Title Case with the capitalized O. If we do decide on that, we should probably move the article to Game Over. SnowFire 02:04, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Hmm. Still torn on the quotes issue. Some examples:


 * The battle screen was replaced with the words "Game Over" and a picture of a gravestone.  (Obvious quotes, referring to text as text)
 * The spaceship crashed, and the "Game Over" screen appeared. (Arguable.  Depends on if you think "game over screen" is one single noun, such as ham sandwich or swiss cheese, or an adjective + noun combo, in which case "Game Over" in quotes implies the adjective "quality of having the words 'Game Over'.")
 * It's "game over," man! "Game over!"  (Probably not.  The use of quotes here makes the writer seem like a total prig.  It could be argued that that's only because exclamations and slang follow grammar rules lightly, though.)

Probably overthinking this, but it would be nice if there was a consistent standard for formal writing. I'm leaning towards quotes for options 1 and 2, but I'm not sure. SnowFire 18:16, 1 September 2006 (UTC)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the . Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

no move. --  tariq abjotu  04:24, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Requested move
Game over → Game Over – This article is on two things: the "Game Over" screen in games, and the adoption of game over as a phrase in English as a result. While the English phrase would imply "Game over" is the correct article title, this is a secondary topic; the majority of the article is on the "Game Over" screen, which is the standard usage and source of the phrase anyway. In games it is a title; the phrase is usually displayed either in all caps or title case, so "Game Over" and not "Game over."

Earlier revisions of the article used "Game Over" (capitalized) within the article, and this usage has continued. More than half of the links to the article go to the Game Over redirect anyway, and probably more would if the people who checked before linking had seen the article was at Game Over. I'm sure that there might be a game or two that uses a lowercase "o", but far more games that use only a capital O (Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance for one recent one) or all caps can easily be named.

As for the disambiguation page, note that every instance on that page uses the capital O, not to mention consistency with the main article. SnowFire 02:57, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Survey
Add "* Support" or "* Oppose" followed by an optional one-sentence explanation, then sign your opinion with ~


 * Oppose I think that the capital 'O' is very unwarranted. I just played 3 "random" games, (tetris, pacman, bejeweled) all three had the spelling of "GAME OVER" which I would claim is a lot more popular than "Game Over" but, that's kinda silly as an article title (also not the purpose of this proposal), but it made me think "well, if changing the article title to "GAME OVER" is silly, just because it's popular that way, means that it's just as silly to say we should go away from the convention of "Game over" because it's simpler. McKay 06:35, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Comment: Yes, I am aware that all capital letters was the preferred style in earlier games (I suspect that's partly because because the only font they installed was capital letters- there weren't any lowercase letters anywhere. Regardless, the all caps is still seen today a good bit, in games like Soul Calibur).  Apologies if I did not make that clear.  However, something done in all caps normally "downgrades" to title case, especially when used as a title.  Plus, of those games that do not use all-caps, they almost exclusively use capital G and O. SnowFire 16:00, 9 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Oppose. What plausibly makes this a title case? The article is about a phrase which originates from games, and it might originate from anywhere. How games spell it is a) inconsistent b) fairly irrelevant. Duja 08:49, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Comment. Er, but it does originate from games, not anywhere, and it's quite relevant, because that's what the article is about.  As for inconsistent, it's inconsistent about whether it should be initial caps or all caps, not about the lack of any caps at all.  Pretend that there is a parliament somewhere in the world with 5% of its members "liberal," 30% "conservative", and 65% "ultra-conservative."  The article currently lists this parliament as a liberal one.  Would the fact that only 30% of its members are "conservative" be an argument that it's all inconsistent anyway, so the article should simply be left as is rather than changed to say a conservative parliament?  Obviously we can't be perfect, but "Game Over" is more correct than "Game over." SnowFire 15:24, 13 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Oppose. Wikipedia policy - "Convention: Do not capitalize second and subsequent words unless the title is a proper noun (such as a name) or is otherwise almost always capitalized (for example: John Wayne and Art Nouveau, but not Computer Game)." This article already has the redirect from Game Over, something which Game Over the computer game, film or TV series have a bigger claim to because they are names and they are a better case for meeting the criteria in WP:Name than Game over. X201 21:40, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Oppose per others above. It's a phrase, and in English, phrases are not capitalized. The usage within the article should be changed to match the capitalization on the article title except in cases where a game is being directly quoted (in which case, "GAME OVER", "Game Over", or whichever variant is used should be represented in our typograpy). When the phrase is being discussed as a phrase, the quotes should be removed and the phrase should be placed in italics per the Manual of Style. — Amcaja 22:35, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Discussion
Add any additional comments


 * While you're here, if you have any comments on the grammatical issue above concerning quotes, please feel free to chime in. SnowFire 03:08, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Don't normally canvass for votes, but I'd prefer not to have this closed on a 2-1 vote. I've put out a request for additional comment over at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Computer and video games. SnowFire 21:15, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Bad endings
Shadow the hedgehog is a terrific example of getting a "bad ending" AND a "multiple ending". We should mention it here. Trunksamurai 12:32, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
 * ... Why? What's so special about it? (I never played the game) &mdash; Kieff 20:38, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Prior usage
Has anyone considered the idea this phrase pre-dates video game culture, particularly in Sport, specifically tennis and also Cricket and Football? Anyone want to start sourcing the article. I mean Thackeray used the phrase in Vanity Fair, "The Game, in her opinion, was over". Hiding Talk 19:35, 4 January 2007 (UTC)


 * This article, however, is specifically on its use in video game culture. "Game" and "over" are words in the English language, and it's no suprise that they were occasionally used in conjunction beforehand.  Look at the articles at, say, Mission Accomplished- that phrase totally precedes the topic of the article, but there isn't anything particularly interesting to say prior to Bush's marquee usage ("Mission Accomplished" is a phrase used when a mission has been accomplished.  The following long list of people have used it...).  I don't see how the Thackeray quote is relevant; no doubt many other coincidental applications of the phrase could be turned up in written language, but that'd be an indiscriminate collection of information.


 * Don't get me wrong, more sources would be nice, but I don't think this one helps. SnowFire 20:17, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Coincidental? I can get you loads more.  I have James Parton. Life of Voltaire, 1881.  "That game over, Madame du Châtelet, who was on the losing side, asked her revenge.  Another game was begun."  Same context as being used in the video game industry.  You're assertion that this is an occasional usage is belied by the fact I have 3570 results in books between 1700 and 1900 on a google book search.  If you want to keep the article to video games, feel free, but if you want to extend it into cultural influences, you have to respect the fact that there may have been cultural influences on the usage in the video game industry, and that maybe those cultural influences aren't influenced by the video game culture at all, but by the phrases long and varied existence.  I'd also restate the fact that this article has no sources and sails perilously close to original research, if not overstepping the line. Hiding Talk 20:55, 4 January 2007 (UTC)


 * You missed my point. Of course "game over" has been used a zillion times; that was never in doubt.  However, WP:NOT.  Was there any cultural impact of the phrase?  If I said "game over" to a man on the street in 1900, would it mean anything other than that the game was over?  Was it a catchphrase used by an author or group?  I mean, maybe, but I doubt it.  They're words in the English language that to my knowledge only acquired a special cachet with the advent or arcade games.  I mean, if you have something more than just "an author used these words here," then great, but...  SnowFire 22:29, 4 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I think you are missing my point. What does Game over mean here other than that the game is over?  If I said Game over to someone on the street now, what would it mean?  You're asking me to source the fact the words had a special cachet back then when there are no sources showing they have a special cachet now, and I don't think they have any specific meaning now beyond what existed years ago.  But I'm not trying to assert that at any rate.  I'm trying to show that this phrase was an established one before the video game culture used it, and that is an important part of the usage.  There are patents filed which show the phrase dates back to the fifties in similar usage to the video game culture, I think I had one last night that referred to a game over circuit in a racing game, so the term existed within the mechanical game history for at least half a century.  If I can work out how, it would be interesting to search earlier patents for the phrase and see where the term entered the industry.  This stuff is of some interest in establishing the origins of the term and showing where it may have entered the currency of the video game industry.  You're right, we can't show that people on the street referred to the term, but I know it was used in my own childhood, which predates the video game boom.  It was, after all, used in board game instructions. Hiding Talk 14:10, 5 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I actually came here trying to find out how old the phrase is and possibly where it comes from. I think a gloss of the information provided above would give the article an important historical context.  It's a wierd phrase in terms of standard grammar so it's interesting to learn that it is not Japlish but in fact a fairly old English phrase.  I think this is of interest to many readers.  222.13.211.112 (talk) 16:48, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

old uses
The NYT index shows multiple uses of the phrase "game over" starting in 1854. Most of the articles are not about sport. Looking at the actual text requires $$$ so I can't say more. --Zerotalk 03:16, 5 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes, but does it actually mean anything more than what it would in a standard English sentence? The NYTimes also has "big animal" and "unsafe building" in their archives as well.  These are eminently parseable words of the English language that have been used before, but there isn't an encyclopedic article to write about said usage.  There may be an article about elephants and building regulations, but those are backed by concepts.  While part of this article is on the recent English usage of the term (towards the end), this article is mostly based on the concept that is "the end of an arcade/computer game, what happens, and how it is communicated."  A "Game Over" doesn't actually have to use the words game over anymore to still be known as a "Game Over."


 * Also, are you sure? I have a friend with a NYTimes premium account, and he can't find any non-sporting/gaming references via search prior to the 1990s, not that this technically matters to what I'm saying.  SnowFire 04:30, 5 January 2007 (UTC)


 * It isn't clear to me that this article is about anything more than a particular usage of two ordinary words in an ordinary fashion. But I'm not here to argue about that.  Regarding the NYT, I suspect your friend only searched the 1981-now database.  The 1851-1980 material is a separate database.  You can search it yourself: go to http://www.nytimes.com/ enter "game over" (including the quotes) in the search box at the top and make sure you select "NYT Archive 1851-1980" from the pull-down menu.  Now click "search".  You should see 1,231 results; click "Oldest First" to see the old stuff.  Your friend with the Premium account should be able to get to the contents to see if they are revelant or accidental.  (I used to subscribe but I got pissed at them for automatically renewing it without asking me.)  --Zerotalk 05:17, 5 January 2007 (UTC)


 * No, he was finding stuff from the 1920's and so on, it was just all sporting related, cricket games and the like. That said, he's not online anymore, so I'll ask later, and I still don't see the relevance.  I'm not contesting that the phrase may have been used for other purposes even if it wasn't in the Times.  Anyway, if the article is on ordinary words in an ordinary fashion, then the article should probably be moved to an etymology site or something, but I don't think that's the case.  SnowFire 07:25, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Future Game Over
There are also some "Game Over" from the seventh aand sixth-generation era games, such as Need For Speed: Carbon. You may need to add this. Professional Gamer 14:18, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Better game over image.
Could an image be chosen from a more recent and/or well-known game? - A Link to the Past (talk) 22:53, 18 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Actually, a retro Game Over image is probably better since that's the origin IMHO. That said, this current image should ideally be replaced by an Ubi-soft screenshot, so we aren't using a fair use image in a slightly shaky context.  Awhile back, I checked the listed Ubi-soft screenshots, though, and no one had a Game Over image there.  Yet.  SnowFire 04:40, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Virtua Racing game over sound
How's Virtua Racing game over sound ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.160.195.27 (talk) 08:44, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

Game Over:Screen of death?
Some games, such as Cyber Cycles uses BSoD effect to realize end of game.

Does this means Game over as Screen of Death ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.160.196.122 (talk) 00:29, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Improving Article
I have been adding some material to this article and have expounded on the phrase's use in video game arcades, which is according to my sources, what popularised the phrase and made it a trend in arcade games. I am looking towards improving the history section in particular but have not cited my sources, but I will do so in due course. I will also take cognisance of the comments posted so far and will investigate the entymology of the phrase and include my findings in the history. DiscipleOfKnowledge 17:13, 22 March 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by DiscipleOfKnowledge (talk • contribs)

1930's "Game Complete"
The appearance of lighted words on the display panel of a pinball machine, to indicate that the player's game has finished, has taken place at least as early as 1936. This was seen on Bally's "Bumper" pinball machine. However, the displayed phrase was "Game Complete", not "Game Over". Unsure when the first usage of "Game Over" appeared.

Kreline (talk) 04:17, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

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Just two
I know only 2 game over's that give me bad luck IN REAL LIFE (I said "game over's" because "game overs" sounds like a gibberish) both are from SNES (I will go to the bathroom if you show them, please don't show them)--65.23.222.27 (talk) 20:04, 7 February 2017 (UTC)